KK 3,307 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Soon, Middle-Earth will sound like Man of Steel.Not long before the NZO gets replaced by a bunch of synthesizers...for practicality's sake of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Maybe Budget reasons? I can't imagine it's a practical thing because the live feeds from London to NZ seemed to work pretty good on LotR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Budget? Surely this is pretty much a no-expense-spared production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yeah. Considering the budget for these films, I don't think the money needed for the score is of any concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well, I have no idea why this is done. I suppose we have to wait for someone to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Doug...Doug Adams????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 154 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well, I guess this will soften the blow once JW will go and do Star Wars with the Hollywood Symphony Orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 One of Doug's recent tweets is interesting:Just a good way to simplify a complicated postproduction schedule while shining light on a fantastic NZ ensemble.So how much of the Moria music did the NZO do exactly? Just the initial scenes, or Dwarrowdelf, Balin's Tomb, Khazad Dum, Balrog, etc? And is it their recordings we hear on the final soundtrack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 They recorded the whole Moria segment shown at Cannes back in 2001, which I understand was the entire Theatrical version of the sequence. I asked about this back in the day and how was the EE version of the music created and I remember Doug answering that they actually wove the new material (performed by LPO) around NZSO's original performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't think anyone has ever been able to hear any difference in what exactly was performed by the LPO or the NZO.In short, it won't make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't think anyone has ever been able to hear any difference in what exactly was performed by the LPO or the NZO.In short, it won't make any difference.I am sure Shore will mould their performance until he gets the result he is after sound-wise. And didn't he work with them on King Kong? So one could assume they are familiar with him and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 After the failure of The Hobbit score it was clear changes had to be made. I am glad Shore, PJ etc are adressing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The Dwarrowdelf piece is phenomenal, so the NSO are alright in my book.It probably is good to see that changes are being made based on what went wrong last time. If we get less tracked music and a more consistent score, surely it can only be a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 So now we know the AUJ schedule WAS problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't think anyone has ever been able to hear any difference in what exactly was performed by the LPO or the NZO.In short, it won't make any difference.That is an excellent point, actually.Karol - really looking forward to this score (on album, that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Very interesting comments from Doug over at TheOneRing.net:They're a fine ensemble, and it makes postproduction easier. That's the straight dope. The problem is, you're looking for a single, explosive explanation. Such a thing does not exist. Different choices were made. That's it. That's really it. Changes were made during the recording sessions--as they always are--and Shore liked certain things for the album while Jackson liked certain things for the film. Think the end of Helm's Deep. The filmmakers liked the Nature theme, Shore liked Gandalf material. The film went one way, the boxed set CDs went another direction."Creativity" is another word for "individuality." Because of this, you put two creative people in a room, they're not always going to make identical choices. In this case, there was a format for both sets of choices to be presented, so we heard some discrepancies. If you're digging for a pinpointed moment of drama, you're simply not going to find it. It's just a case of two mature artists coexisting ... with a few differences of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Very interesting comments from Doug over at TheOneRing.net:They're a fine ensemble, and it makes postproduction easier. That's the straight dope.The problem is, you're looking for a single, explosive explanation. Such a thing does not exist. Different choices were made. That's it. That's really it. Changes were made during the recording sessions--as they always are--and Shore liked certain things for the album while Jackson liked certain things for the film. Think the end of Helm's Deep. The filmmakers liked the Nature theme, Shore liked Gandalf material. The film went one way, the boxed set CDs went another direction."Creativity" is another word for "individuality." Because of this, you put two creative people in a room, they're not always going to make identical choices. In this case, there was a format for both sets of choices to be presented, so we heard some discrepancies. If you're digging for a pinpointed moment of drama, you're simply not going to find it. It's just a case of two mature artists coexisting ... with a few differences of opinion.Isn't this difference of opinion what made ... well, 2005 ... Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I'm sure it won't be an issue.It might even open up a whole new range of Asian or Oceanian instruments for Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 Are you serious? You honestly think Shore has to drop instrumental parts because the instruments aren't available? I mean, NZ is a remote place, but ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Very interesting comments from Doug over at TheOneRing.net:They're a fine ensemble, and it makes postproduction easier. That's the straight dope.The problem is, you're looking for a single, explosive explanation. Such a thing does not exist. Different choices were made. That's it. That's really it. Changes were made during the recording sessions--as they always are--and Shore liked certain things for the album while Jackson liked certain things for the film. Think the end of Helm's Deep. The filmmakers liked the Nature theme, Shore liked Gandalf material. The film went one way, the boxed set CDs went another direction."Creativity" is another word for "individuality." Because of this, you put two creative people in a room, they're not always going to make identical choices. In this case, there was a format for both sets of choices to be presented, so we heard some discrepancies. If you're digging for a pinpointed moment of drama, you're simply not going to find it. It's just a case of two mature artists coexisting ... with a few differences of opinion.Isn't this difference of opinion what made ... well, 2005 ... Nevermind.Actually, I think they both got it wrong in 2005.That book on rejected scores says something along the lines that there was too much trust between them, and during the sessions PJ realised that the LotR approach was wrong for Kong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 To those who seem a little disappointed, there's more middle earth music coming from the LPO isn't there? Didn't they record more material for AUJ extended edition back around February? I'm not completely sure though.I don't remember hearing anything about Shore scoring the AUJ: EE yet. I asked Doug over at TheOneRing.net and he was forbidden to say anything about it, even what orchestra was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 Very interesting comments from Doug over at TheOneRing.net:They're a fine ensemble, and it makes postproduction easier. That's the straight dope.The problem is, you're looking for a single, explosive explanation. Such a thing does not exist. Different choices were made. That's it. That's really it. Changes were made during the recording sessions--as they always are--and Shore liked certain things for the album while Jackson liked certain things for the film. Think the end of Helm's Deep. The filmmakers liked the Nature theme, Shore liked Gandalf material. The film went one way, the boxed set CDs went another direction."Creativity" is another word for "individuality." Because of this, you put two creative people in a room, they're not always going to make identical choices. In this case, there was a format for both sets of choices to be presented, so we heard some discrepancies. If you're digging for a pinpointed moment of drama, you're simply not going to find it. It's just a case of two mature artists coexisting ... with a few differences of opinion.Isn't this difference of opinion what made ... well, 2005 ... Nevermind.Actually, I think they both got it wrong in 2005.That book on rejected scores says something along the lines that there was too much trust between them, and during the sessions PJ realised that the LotR approach was wrong for Kong.Did I miss something? What book? I thought the lid was closed on this affair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 http://www.silmanjamespress.com/shop/pc/Torn-Music-p3480.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 I think he means he writes for the rooms they play in. At least that's what I read, that he writes music for certain stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 There have always been specialist instrumentalists employed that are not part of the LPO. I'm sure they can be flown to NZ as required or recorded elsewhere - this is a global thing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 If they aren't to death afraid of flying, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Record them in London then. PJ was monitoring the TTT sessions remotely from NZ in 2002 and the technology has come on in leaps and bounds since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Record them in London then. PJ was monitoring the TTT sessions remotely from NZ in 2002 and the technology has come on in leaps and bounds since then. Yes I don't think the location of the soloists is going to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 It blows my mind, that someone would even think a monochord etc. is a standard Orchestra instrument.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,989 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Record them in London then. PJ was monitoring the TTT sessions remotely from NZ in 2002 and the technology has come on in leaps and bounds since then. Yes I don't think the location of the soloists is going to be a problem.Yeah, specialist musicians can travel... can't they?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Whats funny, did not the LPO record AUJ in a different hall than they recorded LOTR in?it would be ironic, if the Hobbit scores recorded by the NZO, and orchestrated by Conrad Pope etc. sounded more like LOTR in sound than AUJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 AUJ didn't have the wetness of LOTR. It was mixed/recorded differently.But AUJ and LOTR scores were recorded in the same hall, Abbey Road Studios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I thought LOTR was recorded in Watford, and then it closed down in 2010?EDIT: was it only for refurbishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 206 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Actually, I think they both got it wrong in 2005.That book on rejected scores says something along the lines that there was too much trust between them, and during the sessions PJ realised that the LotR approach was wrong for Kong.Did I miss something? What book? I thought the lid was closed on this affair?I have a copy of Torn Music, and the entry on King Kong contains no information about Shore's time on the project that wasn't already in the public record. There are two quotes from Peter Jackson, from interviews with Jon Burlingame (for Variety) and Paul Fischer (for Dark Horizons), and a paraphrase of a Howard Shore interview with Daniel Schweiger. I don't think "trust" comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I thought LOTR was recorded in Watford, and then it closed down in 2010?EDIT: was it only for refurbishment?Apparently Watford Colosseum, the formed townhall and now a concert venue is up and running at the moment after the 2010-2011 renovations and refurbishments. Perhaps schedule conflict or desire for a different sound made the film makers change the recording venue for the Hobbit: AUJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 AUJ didn't have the wetness of LOTR. It was mixed/recorded differently.Ah, so my ears were not betraying me. AUJ does sound somehow different compared to the LOTR recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 It is all a great ploy to show a journey in sound from An Unexpected Journey to Fellowship Of The Ring! Howard Shore has this planned so meticulously that he even makes the sound evolve. What a genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,740 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 He certainly reflects the change in tone of the films in my opinion, which I think wasn't such a bad idea considering the amount of stick they'd get from people saying its too like LOTR. I guess they can never win though.Of course they could "win." Jackson and his team just needed to trust the source material, find the parts of the story they actually wanted to tell and adapt them with a better idea of where it was all going to end. If they'd done this in the first place and then just trusted Howard Shore to give them the appropriate music, we'd all be winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 As far as I'm concerned we still are winners because we have the 2 CD OST release, which sheds a different light on the score than the film. Joe Brausam and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Of course they could "win." Jackson and his team just needed to trust the source material, find the parts of the story they actually wanted to tell and adapt them with a better idea of where it was all going to end. If they'd done this in the first place and then just trusted Howard Shore to give them the appropriate music, we'd all be winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,740 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I think I might actually like a one CD of the hobbit soundtrack so it can cover only the highlights and is easier to listen to in one go without having to change cd (maybe that's the standard edition, I got the special edition) as a complete recording would cover getting all the music. It is unfair to say they don't have a good idea of how it's going to end at this point and of course simply following the source material doesn't mean it'll make a good film.Oh sure, they know how it'll end now, but even during the filming of AUJ, Jackson just couldn't make up his mind about which new plot lines to add, remove, or tinker with some more. You think all this Azog business was planned to be exactly as its turned out? Don't get me wrong, a straight adaptation of anything can make for a terrible film, it's just that Jackson has already proven he can make great Tolkien films.But to get back on topic, I too wonder how good a single CD release might have been for this score. Some people around here seemed to have trouble getting into the music at first and that might just have something to do with the expanded presentation we got right off the bat. At the same time, I'm really thankful we got as much as we did without having to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I think the 2CD presentation is perfect, helps that this score does not have all the repetitive string droning that the LOTR scores have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 No My Dear Frodo? How dare you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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