Jediwashington

That's probably the case. It's also probably why the ensemble isn't as clean as I expect from Williams. He's a notorious stickler about clean intonation and rhythms from the ensemble and I'm not hearing as much discipline from the orchestra as he would get from them - particularly on rhythm.
 
 
Yeah, Sony is just too small of a room for Star Wars in my opinion. It's such a loud score, it needs room to breath and a longer reverb time give the brass/perc some room to bloom. They keep Sony live by not putting up all the section isolation that you'll see in a lot of Giacchino's sessions, but it's still not big enough for the percussion and brass. I would have rather they recorded TFA and TLJ in a hall, like some of the Spielberg albums and the BSO albums. While still not ideal, those had more of that character than Sony does.

That's probably the case. It's also probably why the ensemble isn't as clean as I expect from Williams. He's a notorious stickler about clean intonation and rhythms from the ensemble and I'm not hearing as much discipline from the orchestra as he would get from them - particularly on rhythm.
 
 
Yeah, Sony is just too small of a room for Star Wars in my opinion. It's such a loud score, it needs room to breath and a longer reverb time give the brass/perc some room to bloom. They keep Sony live by not putting up all the section isolation that you'll see in a lot of Giacchino's sessions, but it's still not big enough for the percussion and brass. I would have rather they recorded TFA and TLJ in a hall, like some of the Spielberg albums and the BSO albums. While still not ideal, those had more of that character than Sony does.

That's probably the case. It's also probably why the ensemble isn't as clean as I expect from Williams. He's a notorious stickler about clean intonation and rhythms from the ensemble and I'm not hearing as much discipline from the orchestra as he would get from them - particularly on rhythm.
 
 
Yeah, Sony is just too small of a room for Star Wars in my opinion. It's such a loud score, it needs room to breath and a longer reverb time give the brass/perc some room to bloom. They keep Sony live by not putting up all the section isolation that you'll see in a lot of Giacchino's sessions, but it's still not big enough for the percussion and brass. I would have rather they recorded TFA and TLJ in a hall, like some of the Spielberg albums and the BSO albums. While still not ideal, those had more of that character than Sony does.

What?

You can really tell that they ponied up for the London Symphony Orchestra for this one.  It finally has that "Star Wars" sound, for the first time since Disney and Jar Jar Abrams and Ruin Johnson got their hands on Star Wars.

I thought it was interesting that comments from the professionals who are involved in recording these cues are similar to the folks here with regard to the sound quality of Abbey vs Sony.
 
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/may-the-fourth-spotlight-on-joann-kane-music/
 
Can you say anything about the difference in working on Star Wars music with an American orchestra in a different studio?
 
The LSO is a leading, well-established, top symphony orchestra. They play together all the time and they have a definite kind of overall sound and Abbey Road also has got its own unique sound. We’re working with a studio orchestra in L.A. which is a fine orchestra, at Sony, one of the L.A. scoring stages in Culver City. It’s a big room that can absorb a lot of sound. And so there’s a denser kind of feel to the sound the orchestra makes than at Abbey Road – it’s not quite as bright. It’s a slightly different experience.
 
I also found it interesting that Williams apparently doesn't use an orchestrator anymore, instead sending his sketches directly to Joann Kane, which prepares the scores and parts from the sketches.
 
Can you describe your workflow on these films?
 
John Williams writes very detailed handwritten sketches. On the prequels, these sketches went to orchestrators. The orchestrators would write pencil scores and we would copy parts into Finale. But for the past six or seven years, John has just sent the sketches directly to us. We put them straight into Finale. I’ve kind of edited them, checked them out myself, and then we’ve used them at the stage for recording.

The title is Star WARS and a march isn't appropriate?
 
It's a stylistic choice, and he certainly uses wonder when it's called for in the films. The reality is that Star Wars isn't really about space - it's greek inspired character development that happens to take place " a long time ago in a galaxy far far away." It's why Williams relied so heavily on Wagnerian lite motif because he knew themes would help tie the story together. Scoring it larger than life I think was appropriate as well given the size of the structures the characters are placed in.
 
Now, I don't doubt that Ennio has a point that Williams chose to go commercial. I don't think given Williams' background growing up on sound stages that you can really blame him for choosing that route - as a young composer you take the opportunities you can get - but I don't think choosing the commercial route is a "bad" thing that Ennio seems to be suggesting. In fact, his work with the Boston Pops and scoring all these big commercial blockbusters with artistry has done a significant amount to advance or at least preserve the acceptance and adoration of orchestral arts - something that is absolutely necessary for the intellectual advancement of the art as well. I think you could even debate that he has advanced the art, but his innovation is not in areas where Ennio excels (e.g. applying innovative forms like using a 6 part fugue in a film), but more nitty-gritty details like jazz harmony, texture, and orchestration. Besides, I think European film makers are much more tolerant of those kind of risks than American studios - especially now.
 
Having lived in Italy for a while and seeing the massive state support for orchestras/operas and immense pride, I understand why Ennio might not get the need for composers like Williams (though that enthusiasm among youth in Italy is declining as well). I know way too many young musicians and non-trained classical music lovers in the USA who are massive fans of Williams and attribute their initial love of orchestral music to him. While I have no proof of this, after his initial success I think Williams choice to stay commercial was extremely strategic and it's clear that he enjoys scoring films that will be viewed by children/intellectuals and uses every trick in the book to deliver musical "sweets" to this audience as a way to hook them while also scoring tastefully. It's why I hardly care that he quotes or plagiarizes. To suggest that he does it as a cop out or is unaware of it is, frankly, insulting given how intelligent we all know him to be from the cerebral interviews he gives. The only other way to explain it is perhaps temp tracks, but I think its more likely just a creative way to take great bits from musical history and subtlety deliver them to a massive audience with the hope that they'll not only selfishly buy an album, but go to an opera/ballet/symphony (as he is known to do and support often) or listen to more orchestral music. He was good friends with Leonard Bernstein who also is a massive champion of music education, so I wouldn't be surprised if his "commercial" choice was about influence more than money. Just look at his house for petes sake... he's certainly not materialistic.
 
We have plenty of proof that Williams is talented and innovative when he has the opportunity. Making the choice to confine that creativity to market and share it with more people is a choice he has earned the ability to make. Despite that, I'm still looking forward to seeing the crazy sketches that never saw daylight when we finally see his archives.

The title is Star WARS and a march isn't appropriate?
 
It's a stylistic choice, and he certainly uses wonder when it's called for in the films. The reality is that Star Wars isn't really about space - it's greek inspired character development that happens to take place " a long time ago in a galaxy far far away." It's why Williams relied so heavily on Wagnerian lite motif because he knew themes would help tie the story together. Scoring it larger than life I think was appropriate as well given the size of the structures the characters are placed in.
 
Now, I don't doubt that Ennio has a point that Williams chose to go commercial. I don't think given Williams' background growing up on sound stages that you can really blame him for choosing that route - as a young composer you take the opportunities you can get - but I don't think choosing the commercial route is a "bad" thing that Ennio seems to be suggesting. In fact, his work with the Boston Pops and scoring all these big commercial blockbusters with artistry has done a significant amount to advance or at least preserve the acceptance and adoration of orchestral arts - something that is absolutely necessary for the intellectual advancement of the art as well. I think you could even debate that he has advanced the art, but his innovation is not in areas where Ennio excels (e.g. applying innovative forms like using a 6 part fugue in a film), but more nitty-gritty details like jazz harmony, texture, and orchestration. Besides, I think European film makers are much more tolerant of those kind of risks than American studios - especially now.
 
Having lived in Italy for a while and seeing the massive state support for orchestras/operas and immense pride, I understand why Ennio might not get the need for composers like Williams (though that enthusiasm among youth in Italy is declining as well). I know way too many young musicians and non-trained classical music lovers in the USA who are massive fans of Williams and attribute their initial love of orchestral music to him. While I have no proof of this, after his initial success I think Williams choice to stay commercial was extremely strategic and it's clear that he enjoys scoring films that will be viewed by children/intellectuals and uses every trick in the book to deliver musical "sweets" to this audience as a way to hook them while also scoring tastefully. It's why I hardly care that he quotes or plagiarizes. To suggest that he does it as a cop out or is unaware of it is, frankly, insulting given how intelligent we all know him to be from the cerebral interviews he gives. The only other way to explain it is perhaps temp tracks, but I think its more likely just a creative way to take great bits from musical history and subtlety deliver them to a massive audience with the hope that they'll not only selfishly buy an album, but go to an opera/ballet/symphony (as he is known to do and support often) or listen to more orchestral music. He was good friends with Leonard Bernstein who also is a massive champion of music education, so I wouldn't be surprised if his "commercial" choice was about influence more than money. Just look at his house for petes sake... he's certainly not materialistic.
 
We have plenty of proof that Williams is talented and innovative when he has the opportunity. Making the choice to confine that creativity to market and share it with more people is a choice he has earned the ability to make. Despite that, I'm still looking forward to seeing the crazy sketches that never saw daylight when we finally see his archives.

John Williams is the least of the film score industry's issues, to put it lightly.

E.T.
 
Might sound like an odd answer but for the reason of scoring. The music might not be extremely original, it is your traditional symphonic sound but the way the film is scored is original I would say. I don't think anyone else would have scored the film this way.
 
And the chase theme is the single most original theme he has written. There is really nothing like it. 
 
And the climax is tremendous because throughout the film Williams is very disciplined, and keeps a relatively low profile for the most part but then goes absolutely HUGE for the climax. It really helps escalate the suspense and drama of the film. 

Images, Close Encounters and A.I. are the three leading candidates here.
I agree that it is hard to top Images, though.

Yep, that came up on the Discord as well. 

Close Encounters?

They lost all relevance to me when Williams lost for Memoirs of a Geisha against 30 minutes of guitar solos (that shouldn't have qualified for a nomination in the first place). 
 
Life of Pi was a very worthy, memorable winner in 2013 against Lincoln though. I believe even Williams was a fan of Danna's work that year.
 
But Williams has generally been snubbed ever since Schindler's List because he's unfairly compared against his own body of work, rather than the body of work by all composers nominated that year. 

There is no way Solo would win anyway. It has none of the non-musical 'qualities' needed to win best score (in terms of film cache, exotic composer name, subject matter, etc).

Yeah... I had to laugh at the Junkin shade being thrown in this thread - They'd be thrown out of Texas for even suggesting Jerry performed a wrong tempo!
I also know Jerry well enough to know he's going the marked tempo. If the group is responsive enough is another story, not to mention that Williams rarely follows his own tempo markings to the millisecond for live performances. He'll vary by a bit and move around with the group.
 
You can't do that on a sound stage though. His lyrical slow stuff has quite a bit of stretching on beat 4 to make a hit point on one, etc. If anything, I think Williams is the worse of the two conductors here if you're going by gesture (and he would probably agree), BUT Williams is an excellent music director with an ear and knack for understanding little musical "moments" and how they fit in the whole that I would put up against any great conductor in history. He's certainly a perfectionist for intonation and blend when it comes to recording. It would be a blast to hear Williams record some famous romantic symphonies on a stage just to see what he pulls out vs others.

"This Junkin" is one of the most highly respected conductors in the country, in both wind band and orchestral circles; the fact that you don't know his name says a lot more about you than it does about him. 
 
Different conductors have different takes on the limitless interpretations of every piece of music. Just because you don't personally like it doesn't make it wrong or "amateurish" (which it most certainly is not). Certainly you've heard the recording of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" on Williams' album "Out of this World" with the Boston Pops, right? It is painfully slow. Does that mean that "This Williams" is an amateur because he conducted it differently than Goldsmith? No, of course not. 
 
FYI: I think the album is fine - great playing (I have several friends in that group), but no I don't love Jerry's tempi either in some places. I actually agree with you on those points Bespin, but just please be careful when you make unfounded assumptions. 
 

Yes! totally forgot about that one.  May just be the best of all.

The official published version on Hal Leonard Signature Series is the one JW is performing live since last year. It's pretty much the same he recorded for the Spielberg/Williams vol.3 album, but there are a couple of bars added at the beginning of the "nightmare" section (right before the ostinato begins) and a couple more in the coda during the final exposition of Sophie's theme.
 
It looks like Williams tampered with it a few times before having it printed. The people at Hal Leonard were asked to wait for updates several times before going to print the final published version.
 

Nah, it’ll be the Star Wars Main Title, we’ll never hear the end of it.

We can call it two themes, but even Lehman, although he mentions the criteria of a leitmotif not being subsidiary to something else, designates Luke's A as a principal leitmotif and not Luke's B. We can say Luke has two themes and they're both Luke's theme, collectively or individually.
 
Yes, although I wouldn't privilege a musicological point of view over other ways of engaging with the music. Williams himself, although he is the composer with over half a century of creating his own style, speaks in a more general way about his work, not going into technical terms (style words like processional or cantilena aside).

He's definitely speaking of it from a more academic musicological point of view, which is something that often is thrown over the boat when film score fans talk about themes.

FYI there are jewel case versions for TFA and TLJ available on Amazon if you want to import from Europe

Saw the film this weekend completely cold, having read nothing about the score beyond Jon Burlingame's Variety story earlier this year. I don't know if it was because I had low expectations for the film overall, but I was pleasantly very, very surprised by how good it was, and the role that JW's themes played in it. I'm not at all surprised to learn that he spotted the entire film before writing it—it fit it too well for it to be otherwise.
 
Going into it, I did have the impression that JW's Han theme would be something more "abstract", something for Powell to draw on and reference, as if it had been part of the material from the original trilogy. I expected it to have some prominent appearances. But I hadn't quite expected it to be the core of the score in quite the way that it was, and for JW's stamp to be all over the film as much as it was. There were times when I must have had a stupid grin on my face in the theater because I realized that JW must have actually written the cue, or Powell was directly lifting from something he'd written (like 3:48 and 4:12 in Reminiscence Therapy or, as previously noted, 1:15 in Dice & Roll). And I have to say, the A theme is so catchy that it's the first time I've come out of the theater humming a new JW theme since War Horse.
 
On its own, The Adventures of Han is a good, slightly convoluted concert piece (and I'm still really not a fan of the intro or the false ending). But as a thematic contribution to the fabric of a brand new Star Wars score, it feels like an incredible gift. I was skeptical enough of the entire enterprise of a Han origin story that I didn't expect JW and Powell to deliver as they did. Between this, TLJ, and TLJ's isolated score, what an incredible six month span of Star Wars music we've just had.

Perhaps he is being diplomatic, but according to Powell the main reason he took the job was the opportunity to work directly with Williams.