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Stéphane has provided more info at the same link:

Nick & Hans basically gave me carte blanche. It was cool to have Harry Gregson-Williams' support & interest as well (unfortunately, HGW isn't really interested in the whole "expanded" topic so don't expect any of his scores to be expanded. But he was cool with The Rock. Hoping one day we'll change his mind ! :)). Kaya Savas wrote the liners, if you want to read more from the composers about their experience & the production of that score).
 
We got big help from RCP & the film's music editing team to get material. My friend Maxime Marion (who knows the score inside & out as much as I do) engineered & mastered it. We took great care of it. Douglass Fake from Intrada usually handles mastering for most of their releases but they were happy with what we came up with so I guess we didn't disappoint. Quality is top notch, besides a few of the demos (more on that below).
 
The score presentation is pretty straightforward. Cues were assembled where it made sense, Nick & Marc Streitenfeld's assembly from 1996 was a blueprint to start with but it also had a few things that needed corrections.
 
It was a surprise that among the material RCP kept they had old synth mock ups of the score, not always in the best shape though. That's the only downside here, the Chase demos didn't come in great quality (fear not, nothing on the level of the almost unlistenable The Lion King Legacy Collection score demos lol). But there was never a question not to include them : they're just too good & too much fun, and a great case study of a sequence rewritten to death developing to its final version just days before the film's release (it was the last approved cue !).
 
Oh and if you ask why more of Nick's early sketches are not released, it was technically impossible for the most part as some bits got reused elsewhere in other scores later.
 
Out of all that material, we had Bob Daspit's great guitar solo from Naval Weapons Depot, so it was cool to remix it and end the album with that "heavy guitar version".
 
Hope you'll enjoy it !!!

CD 1 THE SCORE
01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07)
02. Baby Gas (2:28)
03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46)
04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25)
05. Hummel’s Demands To Pentagon (1:21)
06. Possible Romantic Cue (0:46)
07. Mason Montage (1:26)
08. San Francisco Montage (1:17)
09. Interrogation–Quarter (1:28)
10. Window Crash/Fairmont (2:07)
11. Haircut/Escape: The Chase!! (8:21)
12. Goodspeed Tracks Jade (0:50)
13. Jade (1:58)
14. Blueprints (1:05)
15. Hummel/SEALs (7:14)
16. Mason Into Furnace/SEALs Tunnel–SEAL Attack (9:24)
17. Aftermath (0:51)
18. Bombs (3:43)
19. The Morgue (1:45)
20. Indiana Jones/Fight With Marines (6:17)
CD 1 Total Time: 66:49

CD 2 THE SCORE (continued)
01. Hostage/Goodspeed Captured (5:35)
02. Plasma Bomb Is Ready (0:52)
03. Hammer Head (6:02)
04. President’s Lament (1:59)
05. Mission’s Over/Final Attack/Finale (16:19)
06. Fort Walton, Kansas (1:39)
07. End Titles (Hummel / SEALs) (2:14)

THE EXTRAS

08. SEAL Attack (Alternate Segment) (1:34)
09. Fort Walton, Kansas (Alternate) (1:37)
10. Main Theme Idea (Nick’s Demo Sketch) (2:36)
11. Hummel Speech–Alcatraz Reopened (Demo Version) (2:24)
12. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 1) (3:37)
13. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 2) (8:04)
14. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 3) (8:16)
15. Naval Weapons Depot (Rock Mix) (4:17)
CD 2 Total Time: 67:12
 
 
 
 
 
Roger:
 
INTRADA Announces!

THE ROCK

Composed and Produced by NICK GLENNIE-SMITH, HANS ZIMMER and HARRY GREGSON-WILLIAMS

INTRADA ISC 491

Intrada presents the long in-demand expanded edition of one of Michael Bay's most beloved films—Hollywood Pictures' The Rock. To score this solid action tale set on San Francisco's famous Alcatraz island, the filmmakers turned to Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams. Given Glennie-Smith's past experiences with both producer Jerry Bruckheimer and Bay, he stepped into the role of lead composer. The result was a strikingly popular score with such a distinctive theme that for years after it would appear in trailers and be heard by millions around the world. But many would not realize they were hearing The Rock. It is a score that features a unique blend of action bravado undercut with a touch of melancholy. As first presented, the main theme represents the tragedy of combat and loss, but when flipped morphs into an heroic anthem. Even with both Glennie-Smith and Zimmer on board, however, the workload proved greater than expected. Enter Harry Gregson-Williams, who was just down the hall. Gregson-Williams was initially brought on as an “additional” composer. As the film’s postproduction schedule became more and more frenetic, his involvement continued to grow.
 
For this 2-CD set, Intrada features the complete score in film order, plus our usual section of "extras" that includes alternates and demos. The alternates showcase a very different tone from one version to another and provide an enlightening glimpse into the score's evolution. This new edition features some two hours and 15 minutes of music and is an iconic example of '90s action scoring at its peak.
 
The story revolves around Francis X. Hummel (Ed Harris), a rogue brigadier general who enlists a group of Marines to take hostages on Alcatraz and hold them for ransom while they threaten the San Francisco area with VX rockets. Their goal is to secure funds to help pay back the families of soldiers killed in covert U.S. government operations. The government enlists the help of Stanley Goodspeed (Nicolas Cage), a chemical weapons expert FBI agent. They also turn to John Mason (Sean Connery), a political prisoner and former MI6 agent who is the only person known to have escaped from Alcatraz. Goodspeed and Mason, led by a team of US Navy SEALs, attempt to infiltrate Alcatraz and neutralize the threat while rescuing the hostages.

Intrada ISC 491
Retail Price: $31.99
Barcode: 7 20258 54910 5
Ships week of 10/2

For track listing and sound samples visit the The Rock soundtrackoundtrack page.
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168389866025221/
 
 
 
 
Doug:

Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams
Label: Intrada Special Collection Volume ISC 491
Film Date: 1996
Album Date: 2023
Time: 134:01
Tracks: 35

Knockout '90s action score gets expanded premiere! One of the higher request expansions we have received over the years has finally made it across the finish line! Michael Bay directs, Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer produce for Hollywood Pictures. Sean Connery heads the cast, with Nicolas Cage, Ed Harris, Michael Biehn, William Forsythe supporting. 1996 action classic was a smash box-office hit and dynamic, powerhouse scoring by Nick Glennie-Smith and Hans Zimmer with Harry Greyson-Williams getting in some musical licks was a major ingredient in the film’s success.
 
Trend-setting score features pulsating rhythms to drive action forward, with chopping melodic motifs above that became musical staples in numerous subsequent action movie trailers for years. There is melancholy as well in select moments, but action is keynote. Elements of military heroism and terrorism meld as armed take-over of Alcatraz prison complex known as “The Rock” by rogue group of Marines. San Francisco is the target of deadly VX rockets unless financial demands are met. Navy SEALS infiltrate and counter-attack and dense, aggressive music keeps pace.
 
Expanded 2-CD release, courtesy of Hollywood Pictures and Disney was assembled and produced by Stephane Humez with mastering by Maxime Marion. Intrada presentation features the complete score in film order plus a wealth of alternates and demos, providing an aural insight into the preparations of this scoring classic. Two hours and fifteen minutes of music that defined the '90s and onwards.
 
Full cue assembly details, dramatic packaging designed by Kay Marshall and informative booklet notes by Kaya Savas complete this exciting 2-CD set. Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, Harry Greyson-Williams compose. Nick Glennie-Smith, Bruce Fowler, Don Harper share in conducting duties. Intrada Special Collection 2-CD set available while quantities and interest remain!
 
https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12880/.f

I got a "thank you" from Hans Zimmer after my review. These things always boost my motivation.

I don't think I have real problems with most instruments on their own, I don't reject any of them as an "intrusion" to the classical idea of a perfect orchestral sound on my high horse. I only have problems when they're used uncreatively or overbearingly in a way that's just unpleasant and jarring to me. It's all in the context and execution. Synths can add wonderful dark or romantic or magical texture, or they can make everything sound stupid and cheap. Strange, old or exotic instruments can greatly enhance the range of textures the composer can work with. Rock percussion and guitar can be really fun or yeah if overdone, make it feel pandering and dumbed down. Bagpipes and accordions have wonderful unique timbres that can be a great asset, to dismiss them outright is baffling to me. Choir can be used in fantastic diverse ways, or it can just be a sampled-sounding mush slapped on to make it "ePiC". Or it can just be the wailing woman over every cue. Or operatic singing, god, that's my least favourite thing, thankfully not very prominent in film scores. But even inside the classical idea of the orchestra, strings can be dramatic or soulful, or they can keep sawing a 3-note unchanging boring ostinato in an amateur way of trying to create tension. Woodwinds are some of my favourite things, or they can be piercing shrieking goddamned things. Brass can be noble and rich, or it can just be slapped on top of itself playing deafening held notes with no melody or accessible structure (oh god why did I listen to Beneath the Planet of the Apes again).

An underpriced release and an overpriced one, they make a good pair!
...plus another overpriced one. Sigh.
 

I am a huge fan of sequencers and loops and stuff, but it needs to be done right. Like Berlin School sequencers (Tangerine Dream and such), various EDM artists and things like that. Or funky synthwave things, using Roland T-808, the Linndrum or other vintage drum machines. The Remote Control/trailer music ostinato thing, which I'm guessing is what you're referring to, is very uninteresting.
 
There isn't really any one element that I dislike in music; it all depends on how it's being used. Even bag pipes.

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

I feel like even in that department, other films since Star Wars - both in that series and outside it - have at least done elements of the Star Wars story better. If you're a kid in 2023 and you've seen The Force Awakens, and then you go back and see "the original", its not going to feel as engrossing, and not because The Force Awakens is better. The Phantom Menace also uses quite a few story beats from the original (its based on one of its earlier drafts) and again, its not that its better, but it is going to cast a pall over seeing those same beats mounted "again" in seeing the original later.
 
And, again, the "rescue the princess" premise had arguably been done better in stuff like Curse of the Black Pearl. The "unlikely hero" was done better in The Lord of the Rings. The bombing run was recently done better in Maverick, the desert planet was done WAY better not just in later Star Wars entries, but especially in both Dune and John Carter, etc...

This is where I link you to about 700 articles on glass ceilings. 
 
I'm not super familiar with the work of any of the women mentioned, but enough to say none of it has jumped out to me, but also that there are about 10-15 men currently writing music in film and television who are no more or less talented. Some of them have won awards and some haven't. Some have been around for a very long time. Are they more deserving of work in some way? 
 
When last I checked, women make up 50% of the population. I struggle to see how a disproportionate number of them getting awards and work is somehow upsetting fragile nature of the scoring business.
 
If you think raw talent is all that matters, I point you to the last 20 years of film scores. If that's the talent men have to offer, then, for the love of God, hire more women, and if your immediate reaction to any woman getting a gig is that she's a diversity hire, I encourage you to go home and rethink your life.

In fact it's just more or less one guy.

I am sorry, but I find this post to be baseless. Since Joker, she has done 3 films and none of them are blockbuster hits. The way people say she "got all the best gigs," you would think she is churring out scores like Lorne Balfe. Even critically, only Tar was a highly regarded film. Also, all this talk about her getting gigs because she is a woman doesn't make sense. Her trajectory isn't that different than Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor. They won an Oscar for Social Network and started to get gigs from directors looking for Avant-garde scores. 
 
And since Hildur Guðnadóttir won an Oscar and is critically praised, she is already proven right? Or do you mean she has to prove herself to the 200 people posting here at JWfan.com?
 
Lastly, we know women can write as good as men. How is this still a question today? You don't think Debbie Wiseman, Rachel Portman, Pinar Toprak, Anne-Kathrin Dern, and others can write as good as men? Not every guy is writing John Williams level scores.  

Congratulations! You just described the output of every composer in the history of western art music and film music! And if you argue otherwise about even a single one, you’d only be showing your lack of familiarity with their body of work.
 
The more you listen to a single composer’s work, the more you will find musical similarities and techniques applied regularly across different pieces. You will eventually begin to notice more subtle stylistic references (i.e. a particular phrase structure, orchestration, cadence, etc.). This repetition of musical features over time in a composer’s body of work we call “musical voice” or “identity” and helps to distinguish one composer from another.
 
If you listened to any other composer’s output to the same detailed extent as you did John Williams, you would have no choice but to agree. Our limitations as humans prevent us from discovering this is true for each individual case - If we had infinite time and memory, this would be no problem.
 
I challenge you, even among the greatest composers of all time (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Ravel, Debussy, Bartók, Vaughan Williams, the list goes on), can you honestly tell me there is not the same balance (more or less) between original material and self-references that you find in Williams? I would even argue that JW has one of the best ratios of original:recycled material among the greatest film composers (Steiner, Korngold, Bernstein, Herrmann, Morricone, Goldsmith, Horner, etc.).

You seem to be bringing plenty yourself. And I would also be careful to not confuse originality with quality. A well made chair is still a chair. Williams is a more subtle craftsman in his later years, and his intricacies and beauties less obvious, but his delight in the acute art of orchestration, harmony, rhythmic spontaneity, and melodic invention have not lessened in any of the examples I mentioned. 

I really don't understand this thinking because he never has worked with one composer more than once. Hell, given his first movie (Monsters) was composed by Jon Hopkins, I'd argue Zimmer is more appropriate for his initial sensibilities than the two he's more known for working with on pre-existing franchises.
 
But then I suppose an immediate response would be "well why didn't he offer The Creator to him then?" :p

I doubt an AI could have composed Interstellar so I shall safely ignore all the 'lol zimmer' quips.

As much as I've warmed back up to the guy's work after a few years of being overly critical, I certainly would pick Zimmer for just the negative effect he ultimately has had over the industry. Which feels a bit strange to say, since that's arguably not decided based on his actual work (and he apparently even has admitted that he hates how much he's been copied), yet his impact on the general sound of movies should definitely count for his overall perception, since you certainly couldn't say that about anyone else that's been mentioned here.
 
(Funnily enough, I might have actually considered Williams at one point, even if I would rather sooner admit that I just didn't understand some of his more popular scores. I sure as hell won't say it now that I've listened to more of his secondary works, so I'd almost feel tempted to call him underrated based on that side of him .)

As much as I've warmed back up to the guy's work after a few years of being overly critical, I certainly would pick Zimmer for just the negative effect he ultimately has had over the industry. Which feels a bit strange to say, since that's arguably not decided based on his actual work (and he apparently even has admitted that he hates how much he's been copied), yet his impact on the general sound of movies should definitely count for his overall perception, since you certainly couldn't say that about anyone else that's been mentioned here.
 
(Funnily enough, I might have actually considered Williams at one point, even if I would rather sooner admit that I just didn't understand some of his more popular scores. I sure as hell won't say it now that I've listened to more of his secondary works, so I'd almost feel tempted to call him underrated based on that side of him .)

This went from a thread about hiding tastes to an exemplification of why sometimes we hide our tastes.

If that were true, you wouldn't stand by that statement. In fact if you even just own and have listened to most Goldsmith albums ever produced (which still leaves off a TON of TV and radio output), I can't fathom holding that opinion.
 
 
I would think the answer to that is obvious, and it has little to do with the quality of their work, but rather the popularity of their films: Williams has scored many, many more beloved blockbuster films than Goldsmith, which are still widely remembered and are a part of pop culture. Williams has Star Wars + Harry Potter + Home Alone + almost all of Spielberg, from Jaws and Raiders to Jurassic Park and Schindler's List.
 
Goldsmith has The Mummy... and all the subsequent scores in that franchise forgot his thematic material and started afresh. Goldsmith has Alien... and all the subsequent scores in that franchise forgot his thematic material and started afresh.  And of course there's the biggie: Goldsmith has Star Trek... and until Star Trek: Picard (with a handful of minor exceptions in early TNG scores), he was the only Trek composer who used his theme(s). Maybe the only semi-lasting franchise to maintain Goldsmith themes was Rambo... a rather dated one, to say the least. But Goldsmith scored the first three films and used a consistent theme, and Goldsmith superfan Brian Tyler made sure to maintain that primary them and secondary action motif with his two follow-up scores.
 
Goldsmith has Seconds and Chinatown and Patton and The Sand Pebbles, yes... all films that are regarded very highly by film buffs but which don't still have the cultural cache of the popular franchises with which Williams is connected. So often Goldsmith would have the misfortune to get "Williams leftovers" like The Swarm (after a string of Irwin Allen megahits with Williams scores, he comes on for the huge disaster bomb) or the terrible Supergirl.
 
Goldsmith scored well over a dozen westerns and each of those scores is superb and varied; no two sound alike really! But that's in part because none of them was super-successful or iconic like Bernstein's The Magnificent Seven. So Goldsmith wasn't asked to repeat himself and imitate a successful sound on subsequent genre scores as Bernstein was. I don't think any of Goldsmith's numerous westerns is regarded as an iconic classic like westerns scored by Morricone, Bernstein, or even The Cowboys like Williams (somewhat iconic and remembered as the western where John Wayne was shot in the back and killed; Goldsmith's John Wayne western was the virtually forgotten Rio Lobo). Lonely Are the Brave is a GREAT film and coincidentally one of Spielberg's favorites, but it was so obscure that when Spielberg wanted to screen it for friends he was shocked to discover there was no DVD release of it, and he had to make one happen!
 
If you're really such a big Goldsmith fan and have heard as much of his work as you claim, I'm honestly shocked I have to explain this to you, and that you'd think Goldsmith's lesser popularity compared to Williams is due to some inferiority in his musical approach instead.
 
 
On this at least we agree. In fact, I think Hymn to the Fallen is overblown manipulative emotional mush (which is I guess fitting for those cringeworthy Saving Private Ryan bookends). Hymn to the Fallen might be my single least favorite Williams composition, come to think of it.
 
 
I really take issue with this. I mean, it's totally subjective so if you don't find him to be, then fine I guess. But The Sand Pebbles has many moments that feel very emotionally specific and sophisticated, whereas "Hymn to the Fallen" for me is a great example of Williams NOT being emotionally specific or complex.
 
 
Again, subjective. I've heard plenty of people say the same thing you just did about Goldsmith, but apply it to Williams. But for an illustrative example let's examine some of the respective love/relationship themes by both composers. I ADORE Williams love themes. But please tell me how his Princess Leia theme is anything other than "broad". Please tell me how it is substantially different in sound/approach from the great Han/Leia theme he wrote for the subsequent film, or how either of those is substantially different from Marion's Theme in Raiders of the Lost Ark. To be completely blunt, as great and iconic and memorable as all of these themes are... in an alternate universe where Williams put his Marion's Theme composition in Star Wars for Princess Leia, and his Princess Leia theme in Raiders for Marion, they would still work well and nobody would bat an eyelash. They are "large buttons" themes as you put it, rather than being super specific and unique to those characters. I've heard similar criticisms echoed by many about Helena's Theme in his recent Dial of Destiny score -- that it does NOT feel very specific to that character or her situation.
 
Now let's look at Goldsmith -- though "simple" in some ways, the "love theme" in Seconds feels very emotionally complex and specific as a lost (i.e. faded into the past as a distant regretful memory) love theme. There's a sense of irretrievable loss about it. But it's very distinct from the tone of say his love theme in The Wind and the Lion (which isn't even one of my favorites to be honest). But that theme also has a whiff of the past, and longing for it, but in a more positive/romanticized sort of memory way. Now let's jump to a 90s score, and look at a period which many people dismiss or look down upon in Goldsmith's output, because he simplified and streamlined his style so much... let's look at First Knight, on its surface a very two dimensional (though quite enjoyable) sort of comic book "medieval" score, almost. But that love theme is so specific (and yet so malleable)! To me there's a sense of longing in it similar to The Wind and the Lion, but unlike that theme it very much lives in the present moment. It sounds like a living love which is ill-fated and simply cannot be consummated (working overtime to elevate a relationship which in the film is very flat). It sounds very specific to the Lancelot/Guinevere/Arthur love triangle. You absolutely could NOT pick it up replace another 90s Goldsmith score's love theme with it, and have it remotely work. Can you imagine First Knight and The Mummy trading love themes and those themes not feeling totally inappropriate in their new contexts?
 
I'm sorry that you haven’t heard any music from Jerry that you find "both transcendentally pierces the heart, and is existential to the film". I've heard a great deal...even in films that are terrible (which is to say the least a huge disadvantage, when it’s something as bad as say…Damnation Alley.) And I very much feel his main theme for the Rambo franchise fits in with that description.
 
Yavar

And yet do the liner notes of any average pop album tell you what each credited writer has done on a track? The only reason a band like The Beatles gets such breakdowns is because of how legendary they are, so anything below that isn't likely guaranteed a lot of the time.
 
(I say I hate his influence, yet I still get very defensive over his actual methods, if only because people really misunderstand them for the sake of sensationalizing how bad it is despite really depending on the project/information available ultimately.)

The artist is not the best judge of their own art. It it completely irrelevant to me that they dismiss a cue because it was particularly hard to come up with/record, I can listen to it all for myself and judge it, it might be my favourite one that affects me the most. It's like claiming that complete ballet/opera recordings don't matter, only the Suites that have maybe 6 pieces from them. Some of this definitely has the air of the old "film music is not real music" to me, that only by listening to hacked up programs misrepresenting the score and having a lot worse structure and ignoring half the written score including colossal highlights and pretending that it's something it was never intended to be does one escape that lowliness and join the snooty pantheon of "real music" listeners. Forget all those imaginary restraints and just take it all in as what it is! And then modify it to your heart's content to make it perfect for you.