Tallguy

RIP Lucy (Wyldstyle). 
 

 
My wife came home on New Years Eve 2016/17 and said that a co-worker had found a dog left in the bed of her pickup truck. And that we had a new dog. (We already had two.) She was kind of a mess and it was New Years Eve so everyone was closed. But we cleaned her up as best we could. Bad night to get a new and obviously neglected / abused dog. Lots of fireworks. She would never whimper but she would pant and drool.
 
That was how she joined out family. Almost nine years.
 
She was (most of the time) the most chill dog. She was never quite "right" and I always wondered what she'd been through. She was so unsocial she was practically a cat. But we adored her.
 
I knew this was coming and I've lost dogs before (we're down to one) but I'm struggling with this one. 
 
Goodbye, Lucy. You were crazy but I love you.

Not washed up, but cut off from the Force? Yes, that was the corner JJ Abrams painted him into. Either he didn't know the Empire had come back and Han had died, or he didn't care. And the latter option would have been the ACTUAL terrible one to go with, if folks want to talk about Luke Skywalker character assassination.
 
 
Yeah, I do think a Skywalker offspring being seduced by the Dark Side is a good angle, and I even liked the concept in the old EU how it was twins who ended up on either side of the Force. This is a conflict which could have come up without the need to bring the Empire back as if RotJ never happened.
 
 
Again, it really just seems like some subtle tweaks of tone would make you okay with the basic plot/character arc for Luke in TLJ. And I already discussed this thoroughly in my previous post. Abrams removed the ability of Luke to reunite with Han. He does reunite with Chewie (bodily, in person) and Leia (but apparently you don't count it because his physical body isn't there?) What other friends did Luke need to reunite with? 3P0, really? Were he and Lando really good buds in the OT, and we needed resolution to their relationship? (Would have been very nice for Han and Lando to meet up in the ST, I agree!)
 
 
Totally agreed. JJ.
 
 
So we can't blame Lucas for that one. JJ! (FWIW I really liked Super 8 and Mission Impossible III!)
 
 
I know but we're speaking about the same issues.
 
Yavar

As a kid I had a real problem with Bilbo not being the hero anymore.
 
As an adult? Balin hits freaking hard.
 
 
No you don't. You have to have a new struggle. But it doesn't have to be the old one.
 
 
But it's not. Ultimately everyone REALLY lives happily ever after. Some ever afters being longer than others.
 
(Didn't I JUST say something about All Star Wars threads...?)

More unnecessary shite to go with the likes of 14 not wearing 13's outfit after regeneration, 14 being lectured on his pronoun use and the now able-to-walk Davros. Sigh.

Tbh I hated Han Solo still being a smuggler in TFA
 
He married a princess, he should have been some sort of royalty by TFA
 
Just another case of playing it way too safe with the new trilogy.

Yes. But the limiting factor turned out not to be story but rather Fisher. Hamil and Ford are both in the next film.
 
Yes, it's all JJ's fault for wasting the opportunity.
 
 
Thank you.

Brave fellow...
 
 
Neither did the finality of The Hobbit. (Dammit. Now I'M doing it!)

Yes. But the limiting factor turned out not to be story but rather Fisher. Hamil and Ford are both in the next film.
 
Yes, it's all JJ's fault for wasting the opportunity.
 
 
Thank you.

As a kid I had a real problem with Bilbo not being the hero anymore.
 
As an adult? Balin hits freaking hard.
 
 
No you don't. You have to have a new struggle. But it doesn't have to be the old one.
 
 
But it's not. Ultimately everyone REALLY lives happily ever after. Some ever afters being longer than others.
 
(Didn't I JUST say something about All Star Wars threads...?)

I have wondered if there were people who disliked LOTR in a similar way to the sequel trilogy.
 
"What? That cool ring is actually evil!?"
 
"Bilbo is an obsessed wierdo!?"
 
"Balin, Ori etc. died offpage!?"

'Sea Devil'... racist....
 

Of the three main character arcs, I had the least problem with Luke. He tries so hard, without any mentors. He fails. He retreats. He comes back and wins one last time. They could have done a better job of really positioning that HE does not bring back the Jedi but that he passes on enough that someone else can.
 
The Han and Leia arcs are boring and / or depressing. There is no "win" in them that the Luke arc would have. Han is just going back to Star Wars. It didn't take. And then he dies. (Based on his other work, JJ doesn't care for present fathers.)
 
But Leia's whole life's work, that she has been eminently trained for, amounts to nothing. As a politician, a leader, a rebel, and even as a parent.
 
 
Frodo did not destroy the Ring. OMG he's just like sad washed up Luke!

Sure. But George certainly jumped onto "See? It's all happening just like I said!"
 
 
Yup.
 
 
No. Anymore than making a war movie after WWII meant that the Nazis had to come back. I have far less problem with Luke not being able to restore the Jedi than I do with the Empire then turns around and beats the Republic because they weren't paying attention.
 
But only do that if you're going to at SOME point reunite the original three / four at least ONE time.
 
  
 
I gather that there are some countries where marketing a black lead is more difficult than others. 
 
Sheesh! I can't keep up with this thread!
 
@Chen G. where ever your response was about the Gulf War: In AotC George certainly jumped on "See! It's all like I told you!" and certainly leaned into the 9/11 imagery for RotS. EDIT: Weird that the editor hid the top part of my post until I posted it. Or I just can't read. Either one.

Seems now that this WILL air before the end of the year ... the Sea Devils are apparently renamed 'Homo Aqua' in it, as RTD has decided their original name 'is racist'. 
 
Fucking hell. 

Probably some of it was partially due to Carrie Fisher dying the year before.

We'll wait for the go ahead if it's all the same to you. Lucas was rather explicit about the last two PT films being allegorical for the George W. Bush administration and the Iraq War, for example. Back to the Future 2 said that its Future Biff was specifically modeled on Wealthy Man (with possible political ambitions) Donald J. Trump. Just for a couple of examples.
 
I think TLJ just had a rather generic leftish sensibility but some think that it came from a specific and contemporary place. (Knives Out certainly did.)
 
 
Yeah, it was weird. Although I gather at least some of that came from market forces OUTSIDE the United States. 

See, I don't even consider that "current politics". That's just an idiot (rich) filmmaker and, honestly, it doesn't seem to be completely out of Lucas' wavelength.
 
But the "NOBODY makes more money than WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS!" bit is the single dumbest moment in all of Star Wars. ALL. OF. IT.
 
And also, wasn't the Republic in charge like 24 hours ago? And how is the First Order PAYING these amoral scumbags who have GOD LIKE WEALTH? (This is a hangover from the idiocy of JJ, but Johnson also decided to wade into it and make it worse.)

There is the division over "Luke Skywalker would not act that way!" which I disagree with but I can see ground to stand on.
 
Then there is division over "He put too many GURLS in Star Wars!!!" which is nonsense on stilts. 
 
And if RJ was such a SJW (is that still a thing?) you would think he would have given Finn an actual part! Really, the film starts with the Empire Strikes Back template. "Side characters are on an action adventure story while the lead learns Forcey stuff from wise but cranky sage". Finn was supposed to be Han Solo! But it was a dumb side quest with no character.
 
And I liked Rose but again: NOTHING TO DO.
 
 
I think Irvin Kershner would disagree. He took great umbrage at the idea that this was really George's movie and he was just a hired hand.
 
Also what is so freaking "topical" about The Last Jedi? What is the "ripped from the headlines" subtext of this film? I didn't see anything to compare with making the (government lead) destruction of the Jedi temple consciously echo the smoke from the towers on 9/11. (The Jedi Massacre was an inside job!)
 
It's a very uneven film. But that's as bad as it gets.

I can come to a lot of conclusions from TLJ but "Johnson hates Star Wars" isn't one of them.

See, I don't even consider that "current politics". That's just an idiot (rich) filmmaker and, honestly, it doesn't seem to be completely out of Lucas' wavelength.
 
But the "NOBODY makes more money than WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS!" bit is the single dumbest moment in all of Star Wars. ALL. OF. IT.
 
And also, wasn't the Republic in charge like 24 hours ago? And how is the First Order PAYING these amoral scumbags who have GOD LIKE WEALTH? (This is a hangover from the idiocy of JJ, but Johnson also decided to wade into it and make it worse.)

Hehe, same wavelength

You think? I think that it might have magnified the small but passionate group of the audience that the movie clicked with. Certainly the ones who blew it off who thought "I don't need a Gremlins sequel". Which would have been me if I didn't have a group of friends who wanted to go. (Remember when you went to the movies just because people were going?) Amusingly I enjoyed it more than most of them did. I saw it a few times. I think about 25% of the people I saw it with didn't hate me for it.  (Maybe more. I had weird friends.)
 
I had a friend who didn't see it in the theater but who I knew would enjoy it. So we rented it on VHS. When we saw the film on opening night and the film "broke" I remembered how the audience groaned and people muttered about "how could you screw up the print on opening night?!?" only for it to... Well, do what it did. I was thinking about how that wouldn't have the same impact on tape when-- Oh FUCK my player is eating the TAPE! I'm getting up to hit eject when... Well, it did what it did. Both of us were laughing so hard we were crying.
 
That was a movie that we quoted for years. Mostly either the building announcements or Tony Randal. TONY RANDAL! What mad genius thought "THIS is what we'll do!"? 
 
"Rabies! I've already GOT rabies!"
 
And I'm still smarting over what Columbus did to two of my favorite characters in (the otherwise pretty good) Thursday Murder Club. So I'm not super excited for this.
 
 

Oh it's not. I was just resolved to tread the subject carefully until Jay gave us the green light. 

See, I don't even consider that "current politics". That's just an idiot (rich) filmmaker and, honestly, it doesn't seem to be completely out of Lucas' wavelength.
 
But the "NOBODY makes more money than WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS!" bit is the single dumbest moment in all of Star Wars. ALL. OF. IT.
 
And also, wasn't the Republic in charge like 24 hours ago? And how is the First Order PAYING these amoral scumbags who have GOD LIKE WEALTH? (This is a hangover from the idiocy of JJ, but Johnson also decided to wade into it and make it worse.)

There is the division over "Luke Skywalker would not act that way!" which I disagree with but I can see ground to stand on.
 
Then there is division over "He put too many GURLS in Star Wars!!!" which is nonsense on stilts. 
 
And if RJ was such a SJW (is that still a thing?) you would think he would have given Finn an actual part! Really, the film starts with the Empire Strikes Back template. "Side characters are on an action adventure story while the lead learns Forcey stuff from wise but cranky sage". Finn was supposed to be Han Solo! But it was a dumb side quest with no character.
 
And I liked Rose but again: NOTHING TO DO.
 
 
I think Irvin Kershner would disagree. He took great umbrage at the idea that this was really George's movie and he was just a hired hand.
 
Also what is so freaking "topical" about The Last Jedi? What is the "ripped from the headlines" subtext of this film? I didn't see anything to compare with making the (government lead) destruction of the Jedi temple consciously echo the smoke from the towers on 9/11. (The Jedi Massacre was an inside job!)
 
It's a very uneven film. But that's as bad as it gets.