Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I apologize ahead of time if this topic has already been discussed. I searched for it but found nothing.I recently read on the Internet that "Augie's Municipal Band" (SW-Ep I) actually was a twist on the Emperor's Theme: the boys' chorus is basically singing the Emperor's music. I thought this had to be a joke, but after listening, I was shocked! I don't know if the notes are the same, but the rhythm definitely is. That can't be coincedence…Is this documented anywhere?Also, are there any other hidden JW themes like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMan 0 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well Im not sure about hidden, but just abstract themes perhaps from War of the Worlds. I also heard about Augie's Municipal Band being a major mode of Emperor's Theme but forgot where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos 0 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more.is that on the OST? which track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuremartymcfly 0 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.wait, so the UE isn't Complete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more.is that on the OST? which track?Ultimate Edition:Disc 1, track 32, 0:48 - 1:06OST:Track 9, 0:54 - 1:04Listen to the brass lines behind the fanfare.There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.wait, so the UE isn't Complete! It most certainly is not.The Ultimate Edition contains the score as represented in the theatrical cut of the film (except for Augie's Great Municipal Band, which is different from the film version I believe). It is not, as Sony claims it to be, "every note Williams wrote for Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace.The score is hacked, looped and tracked all over the place, especially in the final battle, which had some heavy re-editing done to it late in the post-production process.But some material has since surfaced in video games, and thanks to the efforts of devoted JWFanners, several bootlegs are in existance, recreating the intended version of the score, as can best be guessed and constructed from the sources we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuremartymcfly 0 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I see, so its George Lucas's version of every note Williams wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more.Anyone want to post a link to that thread? Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 But some material has since surfaced in video games, and thanks to the efforts of devoted JWFanners, several bootlegs are in existance, recreating the intended version of the score, as can best be guessed and constructed from the sources we have.I believe those bootleg versions are about complete as far as the score is concerned.There might still be alternate cues we never heard before.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more.Anyone want to post a link to that thread? Please!Not sure if there's a real thread. It's a topic that bobs up every now and again.Also, the big orchestral crashes the orchestra produces at the very end of The Empire Strikes Back's end credits are the first four notes of the Imperial March.And there's a quote of Yoda's theme in E.T., which is really blatant, especially if you watch the film (there's a kid dressed as Yoda featured in the scene), but it's something that you'll easily miss if you're just listening to the soundtrack and don't know it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 There'S the Imperial March at the end of Anakin's Theme.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 It's even cooler when Williams let Across the Stars segue into Anakin's theme and then into Vader's theme at the end of Attack of the Clones. For some odd reason, that was cut from the film too.Also, the fanfare heard over the Imperial March as the Republican Army is a variation on Across the Stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Not so much hidden as cameos are the quotes of The Basket Chase in Temple of Doom and the Ark Theme in Last Crusade. Both are, of course, unreleased.In RotS the first few notes of Shmi's Theme are quoted in the cue when Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin, when he says that only he can save Padme.John- who thinks it's a great idea to catalouge all of these in one thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi 0 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 i always like the star wars main title quote during the appearance of the train in Harry potter 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo 0 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.Where abouts in the movie when they played that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The section of the Star Wars end credits with Princess Leia's Theme features the Rebel Fanfare as a sort of counterpoint in the woodwinds. Ray Barnsbury - who took a long time to notice that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPin 201 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 In Duel of the Fates, measures 66 through 73, the low brass seems to be making a reference to The Imperial March, even playing the notes in the exact same key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana_Fett 0 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.Where can I listen to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 PM me if you want to listen to that TPM unreleased track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 i always like the star wars main title quote during the appearance of the train in Harry potter 1.i noticed it too,but it hadn't been mentionned yet.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Probably because it's unintentional.Simply because it makes absolutely no sense to be where it is or in the film at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.Where abouts in the movie when they played that?Somewhere during the droid/gungan battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There's actually a really cool unreleased bit in TPM where the Federation March and a part of The Imperial March play at the same time.Where abouts in the movie when they played that?Somewhere during the droid/gungan battle.Unreleased=doesnt not play in the movie By the way, i dont think its the imperial march, it sound like it, the rythm, but im not sure Williams intended it. Maybe it is a typical march rythm?EDIT: just heard it again, it has one or two different notes, in the end. IMO Williams did not intend it...EDIT: It is just battle music, some sort of The naboo fighters attack. Since it is also on track 23 of the UE, throughout all the cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The part I mean most definitely isn't on the UE.I have to come back to it, though. It's not the Federation March that's playing, but this rithmic motif that is in the film, but expanded to include a bit of the Imperial March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The part I mean most definitely isn't on the UE.I have to come back to it, though. It's not the Federation March that's playing, but this rithmic motif that is in the film, but expanded to include a bit of the Imperial March.D'OH i was just pointing that the motif appeared on another cue... Ans since it was released, i sued the UE track so everyone could check.I suppose you mean the part that continues this very music in the Elvis jones version. 'Gripping' somewhat name from the TPM game.BTW i think there is not Imperial march, is just this motif played slower, with trombones or tubas. Due to this and the similar notes it resembles the march but IMO, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I don't know the exact source, but I'm pretty sure it's a reference to the Imperial March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Yep, it's been discussed before. In TPM you can hear Jabba's theme as he appears on screen. And there are mcuh more.Ultimate Edition:Disc 1, track 32, 0:48 - 1:06OST:Track 9, 0:54 - 1:04Listen to the brass lines behind the fanfare.The fanfare is also part of Jabba's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 i always like the star wars main title quote during the appearance of the train in Harry potter 1.i noticed it too,but it hadn't been mentionned yet.K.M.People dont like to think HP SS is a rehash of other scores... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 coughcoughcoughHarryPotter=Home Alone, Hookcoughcoughcough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There is a scene in Hook where a male chorus sings the pirate theme. The second note is inverted, so it sounds suspiciously like the Emperor's theme. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego 21 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 People dont like to think HP SS is a rehash of other scores...It most certainly isn't a rehash, it feels a bit derivative and one can certainly hear influences of Hook, Home Alone and even Indy or SW, but that's the style that best suits the film, and that's the kind of music Williams does best anyway (only my opinion of course), so it doesn't matter. If HP PS is a rehash, I wish he would write more rehashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I like the Vader theme playing behind the funeral music at the end of RotS. It's a short quote, but it's clever.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I don't know the exact source, but I'm pretty sure it's a reference to the Imperial March.The first time I heard that, I thought it was the Imperial March. I haven't listened to it enough to confirm this with absolute certainty, but it certainly sounds like it. Knowing the usual level of neat thematic references Williams puts into his scores, I expect it to be an intentional reference to the Imperial March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Peter Bernstein quotes "Dies Irae" in the beginning of "Noa and Terek" from Ewoks: The Battle for Endor.... *cough* In more well-known music, Jim's theme is heard a little bit in "Cadillac of the Skies" - around 0:50 to 1:00.I think there's some sort of connection between the "House" motif from Home Alone - the mysterious theme that is only heard in the beginning of the film - and "Star of Bethlehem." Either that, or the theme for the Wet Bandits. Hmmm."The Throne Room" is heard in all three original Star Wars films. In Empire, it is the final end credits fanfare that segues to the Rebel motif. In Jedi, it is heard in the end credits (reused from a Star Wars concert piece), but also in "The Fleet Enters Hyperspace," carried softly and staccato by the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 If HP PS is a rehash, I wish he would write more rehashes.That might just be my next signature quote. Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hi everyone!Just to clarify one thing: There is no Star Wars "quote" in the train scene in HPSS. What we hear is a variation of the fanfare-motif from "Harry's Wondrous World", but the motif (in 3/4, and rhythmically consisting of two eigth notes followed by two quarter notes) is played f-e-c-g, and not e-d-f-d. had the e gone down to d, and been a triplet motion, we would have had a Star Wars "quote". As it stands, it is clearly a variation of the aforementioned fanfare motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi 0 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 If you can listen to that and not hear star wars you must be special. And obviously it was not on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 There is a scene in Hook where a male chorus sings the pirate theme. The second note is inverted, so it sounds suspiciously like the Emperor's theme. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.I think that was not intentional thought the Pirate motif sounds very much like Emperor's theme in that scene with that choir backing it up.There are several references to Imperial March in Episode I. The Space Battle (Sith Space Craft and Droid Battle on the OST) is basically a scherzo version of it and there is indeed a Trade Federation combined with Imperial March track amoung the unreleased cues from Ep I. I think Williams quotes Imperial March in these forms to give the music familiarity and tie the new motifs with the old material. It also signals the military might of the Trade Federation although it relies more on the new march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Dear Incanus!Yes, I believe you are exactly right! Generally, Williams treats the bvi-i cadence as a reference to the "Imperial March", and I love the "scherzofication" of it in TPM.Dear Pi! I meant to point to exactly the characteristics that may mislead us to hear the Star Wars main title, while also strongly emphasizing what shows it to be a mere variation on the fanfare motif from "Harry's Wondrous World". In other words, I am not "special". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 If HP SS is not rehash/derivative, Across the Stars isnt either.I just wanted to mention that in disliked scores people tend to bash similarities too much. And may love others that have that same fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Where exactly is the Harry Potter/Star Wars reference in question? Is it on the soundtrack CD?~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 no, its in the movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I thought so, 'cause I couldn't hear it on "Platform 9 and 3 Quarters."~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Yes,it 's an unnreleased music cue.I don't think Williams did it on purpose.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 There is some similarity to Across the Stars and Flight to Neverland but I believe it has been disproven that they are exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego 21 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Completely unintentional and mentioned in some other thread a long time ago, but in ESB there's a part that sounds a bit like Duel of the Fates in "The training of a jedi knight"And about Across the stars and Hook, I think it has more to do with the flying theme sounding like Luke's theme. To me Across the Stars sound's like Luke's theme, which is apropiate, since Luke is the result of that forbidden love, and that was probably intentional. In the very last part of the AOTC end credits that everyone likes so much I think Across the stars sounds very much like Luke's theme there. So maybe the point should be that Hook's flying theme sounds like the Star Wars main theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 If you can listen to that and not hear star wars you must be special.I have never, ever made a connection between anything Star Wars and that cue. ThereforeNow, if you want to talk about how Escape from the City in WotW sounds so much like an RotS Greivous action cue that I keep expecting to see Greivous wheelie his way past the van when watching the movie, I'm 100% behind that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 If HP SS is not rehash/derivative, Across the Stars isnt either. I just wanted to mention that in disliked scores people tend to bash similarities too much. And may love others that have that same fault.I agree with you about AtS, I've never thought it was overly derivative of any other piece. I can see the similarities people mention, but they're really only surface-level; the feel and mood of the piece are completely different from anything it's usually compared to.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Completely unintentional and mentioned in some other thread a long time ago, but in ESB there's a part that sounds a bit like Duel of the Fates in "The training of a jedi knight"Also in this same vein, i think that in 'Shuttle Tydirium approaches Endor' at 3:15 to 3:20 it sounds similar to mos espa folk song...And the 'imperial march' in the Phantom menace, the same thing appears when the opee sea killer enters in scene and attacks the gungan sub and is eaten by the Sando Aqua monster (what a freakish sentence). I dont see the relation of it. Hence i think it is just TPM action music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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