"Light of the Force" - SE vs Musical Journey

[crumbs 14,339]

I was pretty dismayed when I popped in the Musical Journey DVD that came with the ROTS OST and played Light of the Force. The quality on the DVD is far and away the most stunning rendition I've heard of this cue. The special edition is horribly flat. Was it remastered for the DVD, or based on a different master tape? Does anyone have an explanation for the dramatic difference in quality (an inexcusable mess given Lucas's obsession with releasing these films only in the very best quality).

[NewRisingSun 0]

Was it remastered for the DVD, or based on a different master tape?

The ROTJ Special Edition CD is known to have been badly transferred and mastered. I notice "DigiPrep" is no longer in business (at least I can't find them on the internet).

(an inexcusable mess given Lucas's obsession with releasing these films only in the very best quality)

I wonder where that reputation of his comes from? It's never been deserved, in all those 30 years or so he's in the business.

[crumbs 14,339]

Especially not with the forthcoming release of laserdisc masters of the original trilogy.

[Olivier 5]

I notice "DigiPrep" is no longer in business (at least I can't find them on the internet).

They may have changed names.

Especially not with the forthcoming release of laserdisc masters of the original trilogy.

That's what millions of fans had been whining for-- the original theatrical version, the original opening title & credits, the original audio, ...; many even claimed they preferred their VHS, VHS-to-DVD transfers, laserdiscs and bootlegs (of variable quality) to the new versions!

Now they get what they wanted, millions still have something to complain about.

Even if Lucas sold film reels copied from the original ones, which would be the closest ever to the original theatrical release (film, format, ...), they would complain.

As for quality, Lucas has been asking & striving for, and financing, many major technical advances, and is a perfectionist-- you may not agree with his decisions, but his modifications are indeed driven by a desire to attain the perfection he has imagined and dreamed of for years.

Of course, millions of people jsut won't admit it, because it's so much trendier to follow the flock and speak of how evil greedy Lucas is-- overlooking the fact that there would have been 10 sequels to Raiders of the Lost Ark and any major movie he has produced had he been as greedy as they say.

:roll:

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Especially not with the forthcoming release of laserdisc masters of the original trilogy.

That's what millions of fans had been whining for-- the original theatrical version, the original opening title & credits, the original audio, ...; many even claimed they preferred their VHS, VHS-to-DVD transfers, laserdiscs and bootlegs (of variable quality) to the new versions!

Now they get what they wanted, millions still have something to complain about.

We're not getting what we wanted. This release features some changes in the audio from the original (ask Neil, he'll know), but the biggest thing to object is that it does not make full use of the DVD format as it should.

Anyway.

I think I should pop in that DVD again some time. I've only listened to it once, and I'd like to hear some of that great sound people keep talking about.

[Ollie 1,059]

A big company like Lucasfilm can't give fans what they want yet a smaller company like Classic Media has gone out of their way to give Godzilla fans 7 films that have never had a legit US release of the Japanses versions and they have also added the US dubbed versions as well, all anamorphic as far as I know.

From what I understand they have gone to extreme lengths to find suitable prints of the US versions.

[ymenard 54]

Exactly, it's just being unprofessional by LucasFilm LTD to release the original non-SE trilogy in a presentation that simply doesn't cut it anymore in 2006. It barely would have cut it back a _decade_ ago. It's shooting yourself in the foot, for the sake of not having to pay for a new transfer.

[NewRisingSun 0]

Of course, millions of people jsut won't admit it, because it's so much trendier to follow the flock and speak of how evil greedy Lucas is

That's the Bill Gates response --- people disagree with me not because there's something to be disagreed with, but because they want to be "trendy".

Do visible Matte lines on bad 80s' transfers reveal an unceasing desire for quality? Does a DVD with the music in the surround channels reversed reveal an unceasing desire for quality? Do badly-transferred and badly-mastered ROTJ SE CDs (see above) reveal an unceasing desire for quality? Does having to painstakingly restore the negative of your movie because you didn't archive it properly reveal an unceasing desire for quality? Does a DVD with a dialogue track that has its sound constantly switching between optical sound quality and magnetic sound quality reveal an unceasing desire for quality?

This is not a case of disagreeing with his decisions, it's just a list of facts.

I can understand Lucas' decisions from an economic point of view, and I'm the last person to speak badly of anyone legitimately trying to make some money, but the idea that Lucas is primarily motivated by a desire for quality is preposterous, sorry.

It also doesn't answer my original question where Lucas' reputation of perfectionism comes from.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I still don't get why anyone, save for film historians, would want the original formats of these movies. The SEs are better in every aspect, except of course for the Force theme being drowned out as the X-wings head for Death Star I.

[GoodMusician 56]

It's funny how we're arguing about this in like three threads...

To get back to what the topic touched on, I for one ripped the audio and can tell you it's not the same recording. In sooth, it is actually an edit of two recordings. The second "Funeral Pyre for a Jedi" starts you can hear a horn mess play a wrong note...

It's a different take of the track. I think it's the alternate version from the Anthology if memory serves... which is why the SE sounds so bad and yet that one seemingly sounds amazing.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I still don't get why anyone, save for film historians, would want the original formats of these movies.  The SEs are better in every aspect, except of course for the Force theme being drowned out as the X-wings head for Death Star I.

Oh, God, this is going to be another Star Wars 2-pager thread.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah,well at least we know RotJ could be restored to sound great .

K.M.Who pointed out this Light of the Force thing several time.

[Demodex 557]

The SEs are better in every aspect...

The SE's should have enhanced the audio and visual quality and left everything else alone.

[Red 75]

ROTJ really deserves a better release.

[Lurker 5]

I notice "DigiPrep" is no longer in business (at least I can't find them on the internet).

DigiPrep is alive and well. You can see their credit on the brand new War of the Roses album released just last month.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I still don't get why anyone, save for film historians, would want the original formats of these movies.  The SEs are better in every aspect, except of course for the Force theme being drowned out as the X-wings head for Death Star I.

now we know why you use the Insane in your name.

[Ollie 1,059]

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I still don't get why anyone, save for film historians, would want the original formats of these movies.  The SEs are better in every aspect, except of course for the Force theme being drowned out as the X-wings head for Death Star I.

While I have to admit I'm no purist in the sense that I do agree that the SEs are superior in some aspects to the OOT, have you forgotten Han and Greedo? And no, its not OK to have them shoot at the same time either.

Burga - who thinks the CG X-Wings are wicked cool.

[King Mark 3,631]

The CG X wings are some of the additions I like about the S.E.'s.Some of the old effects they replaced were pretty shoddy.Now all the stufff in Mos Eisley,the Dewbacks...they have to do this over...

K.M.

[NewRisingSun 0]

I have no problem with polishing up the effects, but some of the other stuff... the ridiculous Jawa-falls-from-Dewback scene... the unnecessary "Vader returns to the Executor, which just happens to look like the second death star from within, including Moff Jerrjerod (sp?) standing around" that completely destroys the mood of the "Hyperspace" music. At least they removed Luke's screaming for the DVD.

[Romão 2,274]

The Jawa actually fell from a Ronto.

[tpigeon 3]

And I'm the only person on the planet who liked that moment. I loved the added bits at Mos Eisley. The things I'd want changed back are Han and Greedo and the animation of Jabba, which is sloppy. Other than that, the other changes were excellent I thought. I just want the originals on DVD as well!

Ted

[Romão 2,274]

I also loved the new shots of Jabba's Palace.

[Ollie 1,059]

The original Dewbacks worked fine for me. They were meant to be background pieces and not stand out or look out of place.

They didn't stand up and say "look at me!!! I'm a CGI character and can move and do all kinds of stuff!!!!".

[Henry B 50]

And I'm the only person on the planet who liked that moment. I loved the added bits at Mos Eisley.

"Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from... oh, except there's a huge, bustling spaceport half an hour from here."

[GoodMusician 56]

Why is it that Tatooine isn't farthest from in Empire at War? lol

[Red 75]

Well, the games aren't exactly known for their source-material accuracy.

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

"Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from... oh, except there's a huge, bustling spaceport half an hour from here."

The spaceport has always been there, SFX updated or not.

And Darth Maul says there are only three settlements on tatooine.

[King Mark 3,631]

He says that?

K.M.

[Trent B 337]

Actually no Maul didn't say there were three settlements on Tatooine. When he looked through his binoculars(sp?) we saw the three settlements. Mos Eisley, Mos Espa and the third which I think is Anchorhead.

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

mmm no :oops: (delusions of grandeur of mine...)

But he looks three settlements with his binoculars and i think only sends three probe droids.

I suppose they would be Mos Eisley, Mos Espa and Anchorhead?

[Trent B 337]

LOL @ us posting the same thing.

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

creepy 8O

hey you edited your post!

You didnt remember Anchorhead.

Cheater

[Trent B 337]

Actually at the time you were posting I looked up on Wikipedia and saw Anchorhead and then knew it was one of the settlements that Maul saw through his binoculars.

By the way just a little off topic on this thread the other cities/settlements for Tatooine are (according to Wikipedia)...

Bestine ("capital" of Tatooine), Mos Entha, Mos Roanoke, Mos Taike, and Wayfar (even though it lists it as a settlement).

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

Never heard of them. Maybe Bestine rings a bell but no more.

EU crap :roll:

heh Wookieepedia says more

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Ci...ies_on_Tatooine

Mmmm Mos Entha is the 3rd one, not anchorhead:http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mos_Entha

[Henry B 50]

The spaceport has always been there, SFX updated or not.

In the original, the spaceport was dry and thinly populated. The new introduction sequence in the Special Edition, complete with high-key music, makes the place look enormous, busy, and hardly the backwater area that it is.

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

But the shot of it from the top of the hill (a hive of scum and villainy), looks like an equally big city than before.

A spaceport, means there is going to be some movement, of ships, people and commerce.

Bespin was also thinly populated in the movie, you dont see hardly anyone in the streets (passageways). But i dont think is deserted anyway.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I just listened the Musical Journey DVD again and what a great DVD it is!

Except that there are too many tracks from A New Hope.The sound quality

is so rough that it's almost impossible to listen those tracks.

[tpigeon 3]

I liked the added bits at Mos Eisley, probably because that's how I always imagined it when I watched it as a kid. I think the new scenes still maintained the same atmosphere from the original; it's still a bunch of outlanders and "people who do not wish to be found," as I think the line goes. Part of what I love about Star Wars is the detail in the universe and locations, details no one else would bother to show us. They add a certain richness.

Ted

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The spaceport has always been there, SFX updated or not.

In the original, the spaceport was dry and thinly populated. The new introduction sequence in the Special Edition, complete with high-key music, makes the place look enormous, busy, and hardly the backwater area that it is.

Wasnt Mos Eisley always supposed to be some big bustling place which they couldnt do because of budget?

[Ollie 1,059]

Sometimes having a little budget forces more creative decisions and inventive film making.

[tpigeon 3]

That is correct.

Ted

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

George Lucas raped my childhood memories!

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Sometimes having a little budget forces more creative decisions and inventive film making.

Indeed it does. Only it would be wrong to assume the one thing leads systematically to the other.

[ChrisAfonso 188]

again?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

A tight budget does not always mean the film will be graced with ingenious ideas. Sure, there are some classical examples of films in which the best moment is a result of low budget or censorship, but it isn't necessarily always the case. There are equally brilliant movies that barely had any budget restrictions (Close Encounters of the Third Kind springs to mind as an example).

To associate a tight budget with artistic improvement would be a mistake.

[tpigeon 3]

He said sometimes. He never said that all or most movies made on a small budget are more artistically relevant or creative. But in the case of something like Star Wars, he has a valid point. Part of the reason why it's so brilliant is that it didn't represent the "perfect" vision in Lucas' head. One can definitely make a strong case for this in the Star Wars films. But no one said that a tight budget translates to a better, more creative end product.

Ted

[Ollie 1,059]

Thank you Ted.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Sometimes having a little budget forces more creative decisions and inventive film making.

But in this case the original Mos Eisley is nothing really inventive is it? It didnt look like a smuggler/pirate haven, it looked like a deserted desert cowboy town....in space.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,I consider Ralph Mcquarry's drawings of the SW universe canon,so If they couldn't make them come alive in the 70's,then I don't mind if they do now by adding a few transition shots here and there in the OT.

K.M.