The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[Jay 37,397]

I honestly could care less who wrote it. I like that the dwarves sing a song and then later the melody they sang it to gets used in the underscore. It makes no different who wrote it. Besides, the way Shore orchestrates the melody he completely makes it his own. A melody is a melody but the beauty is in the orchestration and use

[Quintus 5,399]

cover versions of the melody feel betrayed that it wasn't Howard Shore, who wrote the EPIC melody.

Clarify?

Lee - who doesn't read score news websites and is SOLELY reliant on this forum's conversations for all film music news.

[Jay 37,397]

youtube is a website where users can upload their own videos. Many users uploaded cover versions of themselves singing the dwarve's song from the trailer to youtube.

Incanus is postulating that many of them will be upset when they find out that the melody was written by Plan 9 and not by Shore.

[Incanus 5,722]

cover versions of the melody feel betrayed that it wasn't Howard Shore, who wrote the EPIC melody.

Clarify?

Lee - who doesn't read score news websites and is SOLELY reliant on this forum's conversations for all film music news.

I just meant that there is a whole host of people, who made different instrumental and vocal cover versions of the Plan 9 melody after the trailer came out and most thought it was Howard Shore's music. So I bet people, once it gets out in the wider public that Shore didn't write the Dwarven song melody, could be tad disenchanted. Or not. Who knows. It is the internet after all.

I honestly could care less who wrote it. I like that the dwarves sing a song and then later the melody they sang it to gets used in the underscore. It makes no different who wrote it. Besides, the way Shore orchestrates the melody he completely makes it his own. A melody is a melody but the beauty is in the orchestration and use

This is a good philosophy and I am leaning towards it in this case. After a listen of the regular OST, I can say that Shore did a good job with the melody but did take time to develop his own Dwarven themes as well.

[Quintus 5,399]

A melody is a melody but the beauty is in the orchestration and use

I strongly disagree. Without melody the orchestration is just rich sounding orchestra. The melody - particularly here - is everything. Take away that melody and you would no doubt be left with typical sleepy Shore underscore.

[Jay 37,397]

My point is the melody sounds completely different in the second half of the trailer orchestrated by Shore than in the first half sung by the dwarves

[Sandor 797]

Hate to say, but I so agree with Quint right now...

[Quintus 5,399]

Incanus, your comma placement before the part I bolded in the quote was the cause for confusion, but I get you now. It could have implied a second "epic" piece - which Shore did write.

Oh sod this internet talking lark! My head hurts.

youtube is a website where users can upload their own videos. Many users uploaded cover versions of themselves singing the dwarve's song from the trailer to youtube.

Good. Now please follow this up with a clear explanation of the birds and the bees.

[Incanus 5,722]

Incanus, your comma placement before the part I bolded in the quote was the cause for confusion, but I get you now. It could have implied a second "epic" piece - which Shore did write.

Oh sod this internet talking lark! My head hurts.

Sorry Quint! Try to master the situation in spite of our "help".

[Quintus 5,399]

One of these days I'll graduate from plonkersville with honours.

[Brónach 1,302]

My hope is that Shore will create something insane for the next films.

I can see where Quint is coming, and I can't deny I've gone through similar thoughts. Probably because the achievement doesn't seem that admirable (even if it's still bloody awesome).

[Henry B 50]

I think Plan 9 deserves a little more credit than just the melody of the song, because the piece is sung harmonically. There's at least one lower line, mostly in counterpoint to the melody at fifths and octaves, if you know music theory.

[Jay 37,397]

I do not (know music theory)

[Henry B 50]

I just mean that, with the "mm" vocals in the beginning and the notes sung under the main melody of the song, there are chords to the song. The chords/harmony inform the way Shore orchestrates the song, although he doesn't always stick to them.

[Jay 37,397]

Of course. I never suggested Plan 9 didn't deserve credit for all the times Shore uses it in the score

[KK 3,307]

Don't you think it's sad though that what is likely to be one of, or THE main theme for the films isn't even written by Shore? It just takes the shine off it. I know, my logic probably seems daft.

`

I know what you mean. But there's no guarantee that this is the main theme of the film and I have a feeling it'll only last for this film (not the the rest of the trilogy). And having listened to the a cappella version, the theme really benefits from Shore's arrangements. In the trailer, it makes the meody seem a lot more exciting!

Considering the public really fell in love with the trailer melody (look at all the covers), my worry is that the big theme that the mainstream will come out of the theater remembering is that melody (kind of like how the Fellowship theme seeped into the mainstream consciousness).

[Henry B 50]

Of course. I never suggested Plan 9 didn't deserve credit for all the times Shore uses it in the score

Neither did I. This is just a clarification of what Plan 9 composed, since people have been crediting them with just the melody, meaning of course a single line of notes that can be sung by a single person. Since the dwarves do more than sing in unison, the melody-only credit isn't appropriate.

[Brónach 1,302]

Considering the public really fell in love with the trailer melody (look at all the covers), my worry is that the big theme that the mainstream will come out of the theater remembering is that melody (kind of like how the Fellowship theme seeped into the mainstream consciousness).

And this is what's going to happen.

[Jay 37,397]

the Fellowship theme seeped into the mainstream consciousness).

no it didn't

[Brónach 1,302]

Yes it did. I saw it as ringtone for mobile phones. People hummed it talking about the films. They called it "the LOTR music".

[Jay 37,397]

It didn't seep in the way that the themes to Jaws, Darth Vader, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter or Pirates of the Caribbean did

[Faleel 5,371]

People know the POTC theme?

I would say the History of the Ring theme is a bit more well known than the fellowship theme...

[Brónach 1,302]

If I go right now to the people in the living room and asked them what's "the music from LOTR" they would answer instantly with the fellowship theme (mangled in their own way)

[Jay 37,397]

Yup, the Fellowship theme is easily the most recognizable theme to the common folk from the LOTR trilogy, though it still isn't as widely known as themes from the other films I mentioned

[Brónach 1,302]

I think people into films or into fantasy, know more or less the fellowship theme, the shire music, the Isengard theme, the Rohan theme, maybe the Gondor theme, and other snippets they might have a harder time placing in the correct spot. Also the songs at the end. And the Ents/Rohan charge music.

(I'm basing this on my sister, who after seeing the films listened to the CRs in order from beginning to end. She's 16 now.)

Of the ending songs I think May It Be could be the most ingrained in public conciusness. I once heard it at a show in a zoo.

[Once 605]

It didn't seep in the way that the themes to Jaws, Darth Vader, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter or Pirates of the Caribbean did

It did in Denmark...

[Jay 37,397]

High resolution version of all the Hobbit character posters are on Peter Jackson's Facebook page now

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151290919991558.518139.141884481557&type=1

[BloodBoal 7,538]

For your consideration, suckers!

[Jay 37,397]

Cool, screenings start December 2nd in LA

[BloodBoal 7,538]

A few thoughts based on some comments about the soundtrack.

- My Dear Frodo includes some Dwarven material in action mode, which means there is a high probability the film will open with either the Battle of Azanulbizar or Smaug taking the Lonely Mountain (I personally think the second option is more probably, since I believe the Battle Of Azanulbizar will open the third film and it would make more sense to open with Smaug to establish what the quest will be about. Oh, and there is the fact that A Good Omen ends with what is probably Smaug's motif, motif which also appear in that first track)

- There is a hint about how the Wargs scene (the one before they reach Rivendell) will unfold if you listen to the thematic material, apparently... I will say no more.

- An Ancient Enemy refers to Sauron, not Smaug, as it features some Mordor material.

- A lot of people said that the Misty Mountains theme statement as heard in the trailer appears in Over Hill. Can anyone confirm if it is (almost) exactly the same statement or if it is just similar in parts?

- A Good Omen ends with some suspensful music (or something like that). Does that confirm what was said about the first film ending with a shot of Smaug's eye? (since it ends with what is probably Smaug's motif)

Feel free to correct me if any of my statements is wrong, since I have not listened to the damn thing.

[Faleel 5,371]

I almost think the score goes into the Radagast the Brown-type material whenever Gandalf leaves the Company.

[alicebrallice 134]

Bloodboal, you're starting to sound like a control freak! Don't you want to be at least a little bit surprised when seeing the film?

Damn, I'm starting to feel like I've already seen the thing.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

The idea of sudden disappointment is something I prefer to avoid, but I also like to be surprised. Complicated.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The idea of sudden disappointment is something I prefer to avoid, but I also like to be surprised. Complicated.

Yes. Couldn't have said it better. It's a fine line we walk on...

[KK 3,307]

It didn't seep in the way that the themes to Jaws, Darth Vader, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter or Pirates of the Caribbean did

Unfair comparison for some of them. Jaws, Star Wars and Indy have become such huge icons and have had decades to resonate with the audience. Harry Potter has lasted for so long too. Of course Williams incredible talent for writing themes has a huge role in it, but the film's success, longevity and merchandising tactics contribute to the theme's popularity.

LotR is just as big as PotC with some of themes. People will instantly recognize the Fellowship theme and the Shire theme. They would easily hum any of those themes if asked what LotR music was. Isengard and Rohan are like that too (although to a lesser degree). If some argue that POTC is more memorable, its largely due to greater merchandising.

Those other themes just get more screen time than the LOTR themes do.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,722]

Konig's concept art is not to my liking at all. Very much trying to reinvent the wheel and trying to go away from the classic silhouette of a dragon but alas it ends looking gimmicky and just plain awkward aesthetically.

[Brónach 1,302]

I don't like it at all. Unnecesary horns everywhere.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Now you're just Chaacing!

[Incanus 5,722]

Now you're just Chaacing!

Is this term related to Cha-Ching?

[Brónach 1,302]

Now you're just Chaacing!

The appearance of the dragon happens to be the thing that just shouldn't be subject to much discussion.

The Great Worms.

Tolkien said:

And dragons' date=' real dragons, essential both to the machinery and the ideas of a poem or tale, are actually rare. In northern literature there are only two that are significant. If we omit from consideration the vast and vague Encircler of the World, Miðgarðsormr, the doom of the great gods and no matter for heroes, we have but the dragon of the Völsungs, Fáfnir, and Beowulf's bane[/i']

The poem Beowulf describes a draca (= dragon) also as wyrm (= worm, or serpent) and its movements by the Anglo-Saxon verb bugan = "to bend", and says that it has a venomous bite; all of these indicate a snake-like form and movement rather than with a lizard-like or dinosaur-like body as in later belief (though the dragon of Beowulf does show several features that would later become popularized with dragons; namely, it breathes fire, lives underground, and collects treasure).

Once we recognize all this, there's the various possible details.

Going anywhere else with the dragon would be a major betrayal of Tolkien's inspiration and intentions, and it would be essentially an adaptation and a research failure.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,722]

As nice as that image by Tolkien is I would not want that directly translated on screen. Homaged maybe but if Smaug looks like that it will be a weak effort Chaac. Smaug is a challenge as we all have in our mind the image of a perfect dragon and I have to admit not a single artist thusfar has fully captured Smaug the way that would have entirely spoken to me. Tolkien achieved really something quintessential with Smaug, as he did with Gandalf, an archetype of a fantasy character.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,722]

Oooh that is quite a good one, especially the whole feel of it, the in medias res action taking place, almost like a John Howe painting. Smaug has to be iconic and I hope PJ and the team really made their best effort with his final appearance.

[KK 3,307]

I just stumbled upon some Smaug's concept art made by Peter Konig (a concept artist and art director who often works with Del Toro) which gives an idea of what the dragon would have looked like. I'll put them between spoiler tags, in case PJ decided to keep that design and this could be considered spoilerish!

Don't like it all. Looks like some battle creature going to war. Doesn't befit the cunning dragon guarding his hoard. I'd like Smaug to resemble John Howe's art and yet not a 100% match. I like the image Bloodboal posted up.

[Brónach 1,302]

It's a Cremers word. You can find it in the Cremeropedia, under the letter "C". More on that here.

Now you're just Chaacing!

The appearance of the dragon happens to be the thing that just shouldn't be subject to much discussion.

Tolkien also drew the Trolls, and in the film they look nothing like it, yet I didn't hear you complain about it!

They look different to the way I imagine them but I don't mind.

But Smaug has actual roots somewhere. Tolkien's drawings are not to be understood literally, they are to be interpreted, just like Howe or the MOVIE VERSION OF THE MAP AS SUPPOSEDLY DRAWN BY DWARVES do.

And that is why the design you found is an abomination. Because it doesn't even fit with the film.

There are many despictions of Smaug that are somewhat valid inside Tolkien's specific idea for the dragons. There's room for discussion abou what would the best one of these and we can argue about details. But the broad strokes are clear. And quite honestly, for me, the line must be drawn here.

[gkgyver 1,646]

I just stumbled upon some Smaug's concept art made by Peter Konig (a concept artist and art director who often works with Del Toro) which gives an idea of what the dragon would have looked like. I'll put them between spoiler tags, in case PJ decided to keep that design and this could be considered spoilerish!

Don't like it all. Looks like some battle creature going to war. Doesn't befit the cunning dragon guarding his hoard. I'd like Smaug to resemble John Howe's art and yet not a 100% match. I like the image Bloodboal posted up.

Looks like a variation on a Balrog.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

um the concept dragon is cool... but not for smaug.

Looks like something from LAIR.