Post-Williams Potter Showdown

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I've read a lot of differing opinions on these two scores, and board members have so far seemed to be pretty evenly split on which they enjoy more. So here's the place to officially voice your opinion. Do you prefer veteran film composer Patrick Doyle's lush, often bombastic offerings in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire? Or relative newcomer Nicholas Hooper's more sparse, almost understated approach with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix? And, if you feel so compelled, why? Let the world know!

Ray Barnsbury

[HPFAN_2 0]

Yeah I got the first vote!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'm a little torn between the two, and my reasoning (or lack of) is this: Doyle's has the better themes to me (although in the context of most scores that's still not saying too much), but Hooper's sounds far, far more like a Potter score.

When I listen to Eragon I feel like I'm listening to Goblet of Fire: The Unused Recordings because the sound and orchestration is so similar. To be fair I obviously haven't heard any of Hooper's other work, but I haven't heard anything similar to it since.

There's no question which one I'm listening to more at the moment though, and it's where my vote goes: Hooper.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Hooper's.

I can't listen to Doyle's blaring brass clusters. They put me off the score, despite the nice waltzes.

[Red 75]

Come on, it has to be Order of the Phoenix.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Goblet of Fire has a considerable amount of class that OOTP does not. It's lovely to listen to, earlier scores be damned.

[Henry B 50]

Mr.Movies is right. At least Patrick Doyle is a veteran and knows it.

[John Crichton 4]

Definately Order of the Phoenix, though neither is a spectacular score. OotP doesn't have much in the way of themes, but at least it has themes unlike GoF, and some of the underscore is good. As Mark mentioned, the waltzes in GoF are very nice, but other than that it's a score that almost seems to revel in its averageness.

[Seth 67]

I definitely prefer OotP. It was more appropriate, even if it was very understated and quiet. One thing that still stands out about GoF that I see as extremely wrong is the huge brass fanfare for the Portkey early in the film. While Doyle's love theme and waltz theme are very nice, I have to agree that Hooper's work sounds more like a Harry Potter score. Just a question-did anyone else think that portions of Hooper's score felt "American"? By that I am referring to the rhythmic string writing and use of the xylophone to point up the rhythms. Doyle's and Williams' work sounded English to me (though in different ways).

[odnurega1 0]

I like them both (I love the waltzes and "Harry in Winter" in GOF, and "Fireworks" and Flight of the Order of the Phoenix" from OOTP), but I chose to vote for Goblet of Fire because it seems to have more organized themes than Order of the Phoenix. Having said that, I haven't been able to sit down and listen to the entire scores for these two films, as they just don't hold my interest on the whole (Like JW's scores do....somebody had to say it...lol)....

[John Crichton 4]

Just a question-did anyone else think that portions of Hooper's score felt "American"?

Actually as someone who watches a lot of British TV I would say that Hooper's style very much sounds like that's where he came from.

[Morlock 11]

Hooper's is the lesser of two evils in my eyes. Both worked in the films. I happen to like Hooper's film and loathe Doyle's. Plus, Hooper's has the added bonus of not sounding like several old Patrick Doyle scores repackaged.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'll go with OotP.It has a few nice cues.

[Datameister 2,044]

I'm not gonna vote, at least not yet. I'm too evenly split. Both disappointed me, though there are elements of each that I like. Some of Goyle's big fanfares--the key word is "some"!--work for me, while others don't. He's got some fabulous waltzes in there, a reasonably good (if entirely un-Potterish) first cue, and a lot of scoring that ranges from mediocre to downright annoying. Hooper completely underwhelmed me, which is some ways was a welcome relief. Some of the score works very well--I remember enjoying the cue for the scene with all the Patronuses, as well as the music for the first scene at the Ministry and some of the end battle music. But then there was Umbridge's theme, which occasionally seemed like a catchy motif with potential, but more often than not annoyed me. And this was after I'd been nauseated by the cue for the flight to Grimmauld Place--good visuals, but with an annoying cue to accompany it. The rest of the score basically struck me as fully functional but uninteresting.

So yeah, no verdict yet from me. I'll think on this and see if I can make a decision. At the moment, I'm leaning toward Hooper.

[Henry B 50]

Hooper's score is very weak in performance and acoustics. Like the string sound in "The Sacking of Trelawney"? Me neither. It might as well be synth. Doyle's is a bit overbearingly mixed at times, but it comes in much more clearly. The orchestra has much more enthusiasm.

Now, as for the composition, both scores are primarily based on very simple patterns of chords and melodies with occasional escapades into very inventive chords/melodies and dissonance. However, Doyle is just a bit better at writing simply. Despite the dull bombast of some cues, it never sinks to the levels of "Possession" (which is nothing more than a scale exercise). Doyle's orchestrations are excellent, but Hooper hired an orchestrator from At World's End.

As for Hedwig's theme, Hooper treated it decently and faithfully, but Doyle's revision of it is fascinating. One thing that really annoys me about Hooper's score (and also Hannigan's video game score) is that the twelfth note of Hedwig's theme is always sharp, rather than flat. In Williams's concert suite of Hedwig's theme, that note is always flat except in its first iteration. In most other settings, the sharpness of that note feels very awkward.

Although, not to sell Hooper short, a few cues are very good, like "Dumbledore's Army" and "The Room of Requirement."

[SomeNewGuy 0]

Doyle!

For now. I wonder what I'll think next week.

[standbyfax 0]

Hooper is the clear winner to me. While I don't despise Doyle's score, it just doesn't mesh with the visuals. There were too many times when I was taken out of the film because of the music, and not in a good way either. Hooper's score, while simple, works very well with the film and has some nice memorable moments.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I can't listen to Doyle's blaring brass clusters. They put me off the score, despite the nice waltzes.

Bingo. Doyle often seems to forego any sense of restraint, subtley, or style with the action/dramatic music. However, as others have mentioned, his two waltzes are lovely, and I also especially like "Hogwarts' March," "The Story Continues," and "Another Year Ends." "Hogwarts' Hymn" and "Harry in Winter" used to be two favorites of mine, but their repetitiveness makes them almost impossible to listen to all the way through now. Sort of like Barry on Dramamine.

Hooper's isn't a fantastic score, and lacks consistent thematic integration (aside from Umbridge's theme), but I find myself liking it significantly better than Doyle's. It has a magical feel much more in line with the Potter films, as has been observed above, and features some great moments which really enhance the scenes they were written for, in contrast to Doyle's often odd placement and scoring. "The Ministry of Magic" is an excellent piece, perfectly capturing the feel of the scene, as is "Professor Umbridge," which underscores the montage of her Hogwarts takeover. In addition, I really enjoy "Flight of the Order of the Phoenix," "The Room of Requirements," "Dumbledore's Army," and "The Sirius Deception" (lovely flying music!). The action music during the climax of the film isn't very complex or original, but has a stark, driving feel which works pretty well. I'm glad Hooper will be returning to the franchise, and I just hope that we get some better, more fleshed out and developed themes from him.

Ray Barnsbury

[John Crichton 4]

Flight of the Order is one of my favorite cues as well, and I also am really getting into Dementors in the Underpass. I've yet to really get into Umbridge's theme, though. It doesn't feel right for the character, it's too jaunty and light IMO. It's like it's written just for the surface she shows to the world rather than the true evil that's at the core of her character.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I did expect more darkness to her theme. I guess that's why it doesn't show up much as she progresses into more outwardly noticeable evil/madness.

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,631]

I think the "lightness" of the score in certain scenes worked in the context of the film.The film would have been too bleak otherwise.A bit like Jaws was helped with the pirate boat/chase music instead of beeing all horor all the time

[John Crichton 4]

Both good points, plus her evil side wasn't quite as prominent in the film as it was in the book. I remember when I first read OotP I hated her in a way I don't think I've ever hated a character before.

[Datameister 2,044]

Hooper's score is very weak in performance and acoustics. Like the string sound in "The Sacking of Trelawney"? Me neither. It might as well be synth. Doyle's is a bit overbearingly mixed at time, but it comes in much more clearly. The orchestra has much more enthusiasm.

Very true.

[Panthera 0]

This is easily Doyle's score, even though many of you don't agree.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

One thing that really annoys me about Hooper's score (and also Hannigan's video game score) is that the twelfth note of Hedwig's theme is always sharp, rather than flat. In Williams's concert suite of Hedwig's theme, that note is always flat except in its first iteration. In most other settings, the sharpness of that note feels very awkward.

Doyle'a score never once had a note-perfect statement of Hedwig's Theme. And Williams varied between the flat and natural note many times in the three scores.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I never was a big fan of Doyle's score, but after listening to Hooper's work twice, I'm beginning to appreciate GoF more and more. While I admittedly have not watched OoTP, its dreadfully underwhelming. Plus, Doyle has the LSO while Hooper makes do with a chamber orchestra?

[robthehand 3]

Difficult to say... both have a few cues I listen to from time to time, but neither really interests me overall.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Mr.Movies is right. At least Patrick Doyle is a veteran and knows it.

-Ross, lazy

[Salacius 7]

Ray you forgot to put the 'none' option.

IMO they are both uninspiring and borderline amateur.

(Oh and I am not saying that 'cause of Williams' involvement)

I hope this post won't be deleted btw

[Ollie 1,059]

Can't say I honestly prefer one over the other. Both are about the same.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Ray you forgot to put the 'none' option.

IMO they are both uninspiring and borderline amateur.

(Oh and I am not saying that 'cause of Williams' involvement)

"None" is not a valid response to "Which is the better score?"

Ray Barnsbury

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Order of Phoenix in terms of being a filmscore. Goblet of Fire would win for me, but the sketchy spotting keeps it from scoring the win.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Ray you forgot to put the 'none' option.

IMO they are both uninspiring and borderline amateur.

(Oh and I am not saying that 'cause of Williams' involvement)

No...... of course you're not.

[Henry B 50]

One thing that really annoys me about Hooper's score (and also Hannigan's video game score) is that the twelfth note of Hedwig's theme is always sharp, rather than flat. In Williams's concert suite of Hedwig's theme, that note is always flat except in its first iteration. In most other settings, the sharpness of that note feels very awkward.

Doyle'a score never once had a note-perfect statement of Hedwig's Theme. And Williams varied between the flat and natural note many times in the three scores.

Doyle's alteration of Hedwig's theme isn't grating to me; Hooper's consistent use of the sharp note is. And, yes, Williams used it a few other times, but in contexts that worked.

[TIEfighter 0]

Doyle´s score is better by far, and has much more "potter"-feeling in my opinion. Though the OotP music on it´s own is a good listen, the better Potter-score imo is Doyle´s

[MSM 126]

Hooper is the clear winner to me. While I don't despise Doyle's score, it just doesn't mesh with the visuals. There were too many times when I was taken out of the film because of the music, and not in a good way either. Hooper's score, while simple, works very well with the film and has some nice memorable moments.

I think exactly the same, but the other way round. So Doyle's score for me, judging from how it works in the movie. For my opinion on OotP, see the Hooper thread.

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...st&p=357591

[Datameister 2,044]

Doyle's alteration of Hedwig's theme isn't grating to me; Hooper's consistent use of the sharp note is. And, yes, Williams used it a few other times, but in contexts that worked.

Really? I feel the opposite. I can tolerate Hooper using the sharp note--it seems to give the theme a slightly stranger and less effective tonality, but it doesn't actually bother me too much. Doyle's interpretation struck me as very out of place, almost like a wild love theme for a film about a romance in a very foreign country. It was interesting on its own, but it really bothered me because it seemed so un-Potterish.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Hooper wins for me. Doyle's score, while it has its highlights, doesn't feel as magical, with its bombastic trumpet blares and rather more standard chords in the "grand" cues. Hooper's feels more modern (in a good way), while staying in line with the magical feel of the films. Perhaps this is because Newell seems to treat magic as a new phenomenon, as if his film is the first, not the fourth. Yates treats magic more like a normal part of life, while still keeping the fantasy feel alive. The same holds true for the respective scores, in my opinion.

~Sturgis

[Henry B 50]

Doyle's alteration of Hedwig's theme isn't grating to me; Hooper's consistent use of the sharp note is. And, yes, Williams used it a few other times, but in contexts that worked.

Really? I feel the opposite. I can tolerate Hooper using the sharp note--it seems to give the theme a slightly stranger and less effective tonality, but it doesn't actually bother me too much. Doyle's interpretation struck me as very out of place, almost like a wild love theme for a film about a romance in a very foreign country. It was interesting on its own, but it really bothered me because it seemed so un-Potterish.

Un-Potterish? Only if you mean compared to Williams's scores.

[Datameister 2,044]

Un-Potterish? Only if you mean compared to Williams's scores.

No, not only that. While these statements of the theme have grown on me over time, they don't seem to evoke any of the emotions I felt while reading the books, nor do they work terribly well with the movie for me.

[HPFAN_2 0]

To me neither of them are magical. They both lack that flare that Williams gave the series. They both lacked the feeling that transcended the movies and felt closely linked to the book. Williams' to me represents Harry Potter not the Harry Potter FILM. His music encompasses more than what's on screen. And I think that was a intentional creative choice. Because if you take the scores out of the movies they still work with the series. Hooper got my vote because his just sounded better. Like someone else said he does have this modern take that is different. His minimalism is nice, however wrong for Harry Potter. Doyle's score represent the film, a complete departure from the source material. His orchestrations were all off, his lack of consisting theme was annoying.