Let's talk about . . . The Imperial March!

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I like everything about it, but I'm particularly fond of the middle section 00:46-1:36 (on the Star Wars Trilogy CD), where it's quiet and softly menacing at first and then builds up and up until you think, "Well, it can't get better than this!" And then, of course, it does. The orchestration is especially nice here, too, the strings and brass working together (or against each other) under JW's baton. Also, which version do you like best? (See poll)

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

I agree with everything up there. The transition in the middle of the...middle section (from those eerie string/wood parts to the horn statement of the theme) is particularly brilliant.

Favourite? The Skywalker Symphony version... though this will once again cause a lot of uproar.

[Datameister 2,073]

I love the Imperial March. Yes, its status as a pop culture icon can make it slightly tiresome from time to time, but it is at heart a great theme for a great baddie. I love the OST recording and would vote for it in an instant, except I haven't heard the second option in the poll. Still, I honestly can't imagine voting for anything but the OST.

One objection I could imagine people raising about the Imperial March is how relatively bright it is. I mean, the section near the end even goes so far as to include glockenspiel with the trumpets on the melody. Some people might feel that Vader should have darker music, perhaps closer to the original Imperial motif from ANH. I understand and appreciate this view...but it doesn't bother me. Even the glockenspiel works for me--it sounds almost evoke images of the countless stars the Empire is subjugating. Many recordings of the piece do sound too bright to me, but the OST gets it right.

USO: Too fast and bright, with a wrong note in the trumpets just before the quiet section. Overall, doesn't quite fit Vader and his Empire. The snare drum is too bright, too. The bass drum could be a little softer. Very nice horn performance as the quiet section crescendos, though--the best interpretation of that passage I've heard, in fact.

CPO (Star Tracks): Much better snare. Nice triangle. Technically excellent performance, though still rather bright and somewhat faster than the original recording. This tempo works much better than that taken by the USO. Ironically, it's that horn statement of the theme that really sounds terrible in this recording.

Prague (Science Fiction Album): Um...it's Prague/Silva. It goes without saying that this is in all likelihood the worst "professional" recording of the piece ever to reach human ears. Hideous instrument timbres all around, especially in the brass, ridiculously loud reverb, inconsistently slow tempo, bizarre snare sound. Very unimpressive and disappointing to hear. Will someone please either make sure the entire brass section sobers up or fire them?

OST recording: Untouchable. Truly a joy to listen to. Darker sound, more ominous tempo, wonderful acoustics, expressive performance, all with that vintage "raw" LSO sound. Add sentimental value to the mix, and you can't beat it. When I was younger, I had a lot more exposure to the CPO recording than to this original recording. When I first sat down to really listen to the original, I felt a little disgusted by the sound quality. That quickly wore off and the CPO recording I once favored has now sunk to second place in my book. The only part of the OST recording that bothers me in the slightest is that horn section in the middle, because this section is superior (in terms of performance and mixing) in the otherwise-bothersome CSO recording.

[Henry B 50]

The Special Edition set is mangled by Bruce Risner's remix. Check out the Anthology for the real deal.

[aj_vader 535]

The Imperial March is the greatest peice ever written for me lol, suprise suprise. Its hard for me to choose between all the versions, but if i have to id have to go with the Anthology Version, its dark and very Imperial sounding. Strong defined brass throughout the peice.

I agree the prague version really does suck!

I heard the USO version bout 3 years before i heard the anthology version. was a kid at the time n couldnt afford the anthology lol.

[stuttersteps 1]

I personally find the Skywalker Symphony version to be the most martial-like and arresting. There's a sharpness and clarity with each step; it instills great fear while suggesting imminent doom.

But I have to say the crashing onslaught of the consecutive cymbals at the end of the Boston Pops's version is without peer.

[Quintus 5,399]

I like the original best, apart from the horrible sounding horn in the middle section. I'd take any horn rendition over that one. Apart from the franky disgusting one as heard in the Prague performance.

[Red 75]

I voted for the SE version. Although, the Boston Pops recording (from The Greatest Hits) wasn't mentioned . . .

[Ollie 1,064]

I like the version I first heard on TESB double LP.

[artyjeffrey 20]

I like the original best, apart from the horrible sounding horn in the middle section. I'd take any horn rendition over that one. Apart from the franky disgusting one as heard in the Prague performance.

If Williams ever got bored, and hopped on a plane over to Prague, I wonder just how good of a performance he could get out of them. Yes, it's embarrassing to listen to, though I don't know why I would be embarrassed. Maybe to be a part of the same species as the inept musicians? Or maybe because I caught myself having spent money to hear it? The Indiana Jones disc they did was ATROCIOUS!

Oh, by the way, Anthology version for me. Risner sucks.

[Josh500 1,615]

I voted for the SE version. Although, the Boston Pops recording (from The Greatest Hits) wasn't mentioned . . .

If I'm not mistaken, that's actually the Skywalker Symphony version! Isn't it?

[Salacius 7]

It rules!!!!

OST all the way

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Skywalker Symphony, by far.

Though I must say, the original recording has its own supreme qualities, such as a much more sinister and chilling opening.

As for being the greatest piece ever, that's very much an overstatement. The piece really stagnates after the first minute and half becomes rather dull.

[Salacius 7]

Skywalker Symphony, by far.

Though I must say, the original recording has its own supreme qualities, such as a much more sinister and chilling opening.

As for being the greatest piece ever, that's very much an overstatement. The piece really stagnates after the first minute and half becomes rather dull.

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

One of my favourite renditions is, of course, Aboard the Executor.

[Salacius 7]

One of my favourite renditions is, of course, Aboard the Executor.

How about the and of Han Solo and the Princess? It's scary!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I like the opening of the Hoth battle version better.

It just has a lot more oomph than any other similar statement in Aboard the Executor.

[Ollie 1,064]

Agreed.

[Red 75]

I voted for the SE version. Although, the Boston Pops recording (from The Greatest Hits) wasn't mentioned . . .

If I'm not mistaken, that's actually the Skywalker Symphony version! Isn't it?

Maybe. I haven't heard the Skywalker Symphony version.

[John Crichton 4]

I wouldn't include a concert version of the Imperial March among my favorites, either. Many in film statements are much better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Skully.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Cute.

[Lurker 5]

Utah for me (but where's Gerhardt?).

And here's something I wrote a long time ago (in a state far, far away)...

There is no doubt that John Williams' concert piece "The Imperial March" is one of the most recognizable pieces of film music ever written. The cue, described as "Darth Vader's Theme", is a driving march that perfectly describes the relentless pursuit Vader was on searching for Luke Skywalker and ultimately, the rebels. Cold and mechanical, the piece is the total opposite of Williams' own "March from Superman" which makes sense, as Superman stands for everything Darth Vader is not.

The march was first heard (tracked) in The Empire Strikes Back, when the Imperial fleet is first seen. After the introduction of a new spacecraft, the unimaginatively named "Super Star Destroyer", we get our first glimpse of Vader in the new film. Apparently, a lot has happened to the character since the last time we saw him, flying away in a damaged TIE fighter, possibly the only survivor of the Imperial fleet stationed at the Death Star. In Star Wars Vader seemed to be almost a body guard to Grand Moff Tarkin aboard the Death Star. Vader was always by his side, doing Tarkins dirty work, such as torturing Princess Leia and actually going out in a TIE fighter to fight against the rebels. All of the big decisions, such as destroying Alderaan, were the work of Tarkin. Vader was clearly not the decision maker of the two, regardless of his relationship with the emperor.

Once Tarkin was killed at the "Battle of Yavin" (when the Death Star was destroyed), Vader seems to have moved up in rank and in power. While it was never really clear what Vader's military status was in Star Wars, by the time The Empire Strikes Back came around, Vader had clearly gained some prominence, as no decision is made without his approval. In Star Wars Vader took the orders ("Terminate her, immediately").

Also demonstrating Vader's lack of authority in Star Wars, note the conference scene. Admiral Motti stands up to Vader, even calling the Jedi "an ancient religion". Vader eventually sways Motti to change his attitude, through the use of a "force guided" choke hold, but it's clear that people are not afraid of standing up to Vader. Contrast this with The Empire Strikes Back. When we first see Vader walking across the platform to discuss what the probe droid has found in the Hoth system (a shot that is actually from the end of the film, only reversed), look at the faces of the men in the control pit. They have fear in their faces. Vader has clearly changed, from being Tarkin's bully to being someone not to be messed with. This is an important change, and it perfectly explains why Vader now has his own theme. He has become an important character. That is why it's critical that "Darth Vader's Theme" not be heard until those early moments of The Empire Strikes Back.

There are those that think "The Imperial March" should be incorporated into Star Wars to provide some sort of continuity, but this is not correct. The Vader in Star Wars doesn't deserve his own theme. In that film he's part of the much larger Imperial fleet which has its own musical theme, which was supplanted once Empire came out and the series essentially shifted the focus to being the life and death of Darth Vader.

Even the filmmakers of the Star Wars films seem to have forgotten what this piece is really meant to represent. In Attack of the Clones a grand Imperial army of clones is seen while "The Imperial March" plays. This is wrong in every sense of the word. Vader isn't even a character yet in the series, and Anakin Skywalker isn't even in the scene. A much more appropriate idea would have been to go back to the "Imperial motif" that Williams wrote for Star Wars. This would provide the correct continuity for the series, and it would further show the evolution of the Empire and Darth Vader's position in it. Also hearing "The Imperial March" this "early" in the series robs the "later" films of some of their power. Williams carefully included musical hints of Vader's theme in "Anakin's Theme" from the score to The Phantom Menace, the idea being that this little boy will grow into Darth Vader and this theme will grow and evolve with him until he becomes the Vader of The Empire Strikes Back. Well that idea has been rendered completely useless, by the careless placement of the theme in Attack of the Clones.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

oh Neil, just quit being intelligent.

[Red 75]

That use of the "Imperial March" in Clones always seemed iffy to me. Now I know why.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did you need someone else explaining it to you?

[Red 75]

Yes, because I never really looked at it that way.

[Lurker 5]

oh Neil, just quit being intelligent.

Done!

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

thank you,

its so intimidating.

[Ollie 1,064]

Once again Neil brings wisdom and common sense to the board.

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

(but where's Gerhardt?).

Not even close. Here They Come!, Approaching the Death Star, Into the Trap, Ewok Celebration - hell yes, and several others, but not ESB.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I tend to agree with Neil Stephen Bulk on the Gerhardt/TESB issue.

[Lurker 5]

Stephen?

Neil

[Ollie 1,064]

I thought "S" stood for Superman.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

the S stands for SHADKHEN, its Neil's family profession.

He's a matchmaker,

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh gevalt!

[Jeshopk 8]

I couldn't vote. I like the mixes found on the original album. The special edition is far too harsh.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No it isn't!

[Jeshopk 8]

No it isn't!

Would you agree that much of the special edition album is harsher and more close sounding?

[JCoppack 0]

At one time I would say the SE version, but someone pointed out an edit, which once heard spoiled it for me.

I'm not going to say where it is because I don't want to spoil the piece for anyone else.

My favourite now is the version on the Greatest Hits album, which I believe is the LSO. I may be wrong though.

[King Mark 3,631]

My favourite "concert version" in in the End Credits of ESB.I just love the woodwind rendition near the end before seiguing into the love theme.

And Aboard the Executor (unused)

[Luke Skywalker 1,805]

And here's something I wrote a long time ago (in a state far, far away)...

There is no doubt that John Williams' concert piece "The Imperial March" is one of the most recognizable pieces of film music ever written. The cue, described as "Darth Vader's Theme", is a driving march that perfectly describes the relentless pursuit Vader was on searching for Luke Skywalker and ultimately, the rebels. Cold and mechanical, the piece is the total opposite of Williams' own "March from Superman" which makes sense, as Superman stands for everything Darth Vader is not.

etc, etc

Still, you forgot to mention that Darth Vader's theme is also used for the imperial army, when he is not the center of the scene and even when he is not there. And these are not artistic choices as Yoda's theme in Bespin.

Examples are:

ESB

Both 'Ice planet of Hoth' and 'Imperial Probe' have the march, and vader is Lightyears away.

'Aboard the executor' while vader is in the ship, the most memorable rendition of this cue is for the Executor and the imperial fleet and its first appeareance.

'The Asteroid field' The bombastic opening is featured for an ISD pursuing the Falcon. Vader is in the Executor, kilometers away.

'Imperial Starfleet deployed' The ISD shown here is not Vader's either, though he is the one who commands the fleet deployment.

ROTJ

'The Emperor Arrives', where the march is given his most glorius rendition (curiously very similar to the AOTC finale, both portrating Palpatine and his Army) and vader is just a 'kneeled character'.

'Emperor's Throne Room' The theme is played, but the theme is played for the emperor and his quarters. But in this case it can also be related to Vader

'The Battle of Endor I' When the alliance watches the Death star after exiting from hyperspace the theme is played.

'The Lightsaber' Comences with another rendition of the march used in the same form as in 'Emperor's throne room' (was this an alternate??)

For me, its the Imperial March when i see the Fleet, mostly them ost bombastic and fully orchestrated renditions

It's also Darth Vader's theme when is played for the character, and many times (not all) in less orchestrated and subtle.

I dont like its AOTC usage, and though i would prefer the Imperial motif there, it does not bug me and for the scene and the casual moviegoer it works perfectly.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

My favourite "concert version" in in the End Credits of ESB.I just love the woodwind rendition near the end before seiguing into the love theme.

That's another excellent choice...I keep forgetting about that.

[Lurker 5]

And here's something I wrote a long time ago (in a state far, far away)...

There is no doubt that John Williams' concert piece "The Imperial March" is one of the most recognizable pieces of film music ever written. The cue, described as "Darth Vader's Theme", is a driving march that perfectly describes the relentless pursuit Vader was on searching for Luke Skywalker and ultimately, the rebels. Cold and mechanical, the piece is the total opposite of Williams' own "March from Superman" which makes sense, as Superman stands for everything Darth Vader is not.

etc, etc

Still, you forgot to mention that Darth Vader's theme is also used for the imperial army, when he is not the center of the scene and even when he is not there. And these are not artistic choices as Yoda's theme in Bespin.

Examples are:

ESB

Both 'Ice planet of Hoth' and 'Imperial Probe' have the march, and vader is Lightyears away.

You're correct. The theme is briefly heard on the opening shot of the Imperial cruiser. Of course, this scene immediately follows this sentence: "The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space....". And what do we see? Those remote probes being launched on Vader's command.

And again, I'm not saying that the theme must be used exclusively for Vader, only that it belongs only in Empire and Jedi.

Neil

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I still think the moment would have been less powerful with the Imperial Motif from the original movie.

This doesn't mean Neil is wrong, of course. Or it doesn't mean that Lucas didn't forced a powerful moment through the music because had no other resources to redeem his Episode II.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I have never heard this piece before.(I've heard good about it)

Next week I have more time to listen to it after I'll complete my 36 page dissertation

of America , the Dream Goes On , JW's uncontradicted masterpiece.

[mahler3 478]

I actually prefer the Gerhardt rendition as part of his superb end credits suite - that to me is the best performance.

I also like the Skywalker Symphony's version and yes it is the latter that appears on Sony's Greatest Hits CD set.

[oierem 160]

Sorry Neil, but I have to disagree with you. Wether you like the Imperial March in AOTC or not, the them, from the very beginning, has been used to portray the Empire in general, as well as Vader. Neither Empire nor Jedi have the slightest reference to the "Imperial motif" from teh 1977 movie (wathever you call it).

Long story short, what you're just saying is that all Star Wars episodes from V to III were scored wrong, regarding the Imperial March. What I say is that Star Wars (Episode IV) was scored wrong (regarding the use of the Imperial March, of course).

And it's not just me, it's Lucas and John Williams himself. He decided to create a new theme, he decided not to use the older theme, he has said that he would like to record the Imperial March for a future Episode IV release.

[aj_vader 535]

Sorry Neil, but I have to disagree with you. Wether you like the Imperial March in AOTC or not, the them, from the very beginning, has been used to portray the Empire in general, as well as Vader. Neither Empire nor Jedi have the slightest reference to the "Imperial motif" from teh 1977 movie (wathever you call it).

Long story short, what you're just saying is that all Star Wars episodes from V to III were scored wrong, regarding the Imperial March. What I say is that Star Wars (Episode IV) was scored wrong (regarding the use of the Imperial March, of course).

And it's not just me, it's Lucas and John Williams himself. He decided to create a new theme, he decided not to use the older theme, he has said that he would like to record the Imperial March for a future Episode IV release.

who said they wanted to record the imperial march for Episode IV? that would be cool, id love the imperial march in episode IV when they see the Death Star n that

[Luke Skywalker 1,805]

Sorry Neil, but I have to disagree with you. Wether you like the Imperial March in AOTC or not, the them, from the very beginning, has been used to portray the Empire in general, as well as Vader. Neither Empire nor Jedi have the slightest reference to the "Imperial motif" from teh 1977 movie (wathever you call it).

Long story short, what you're just saying is that all Star Wars episodes from V to III were scored wrong, regarding the Imperial March. What I say is that Star Wars (Episode IV) was scored wrong (regarding the use of the Imperial March, of course).

And it's not just me, it's Lucas and John Williams himself. He decided to create a new theme, he decided not to use the older theme, he has said that he would like to record the Imperial March for a future Episode IV release.

who said they wanted to record the imperial march for Episode IV? that would be cool, id love the imperial march in episode IV when they see the Death Star n that

To both:

Neil has a point anyway.

We can still justify its usage in the prequels and a 'rescore' of ANH, but chronologically and musically the theme belongs to Empire and Jedi to portrait both the Empire and Vader. Its usage in Anakin's theme is acceptable, while the usage in AOTC and ROTS is debatable.

To Aj_vader: The death star motif should not be changed. I think it is even used in ROTJ. And if the imperial march is to be used in ANH, it doe not have to substitute every rendition of the imperial motif.