Heir to John Williams

[David Coscina 3]

No-one currently working in the film industry.

I think that film scoring as an art has become reduced, mostly, to mere sonic props, and the state of things will likely linger as such, with the odd exception, for years to come, at least in Hollywood.

But I do think we will see a new flow of classically trained composers with an interest in film scoring (and an interest in what Williams represents in terms of technical mastery), and in some more years, this will become more apparent also in the industry, and new talents will emerge, and provide a breath of fresh air to the by now very stagnant MV-type composer with only a fleeting and superficial knowledge of anything beyond pop-musical terrain.

100% Agree with you Marcus. I have been feeling the same way for a long time about the state of film scoring

Zimmer's score didn't help. Although I do like "A Hard Teacher". nice use of thematic and harmonic variations

[Morlock 11]

Have you heard The Stepford Wives or Tomorrow Never Dies?

The Stepford Wives, no. I'm sorry I didn't know it was his. Tomorrow Never Dies I didn't like. I actually don't like any of his Bond Scores. They're too massive, too much electronical, too themeless and too harmonically unskillfully written/orchestrated. Too bland in short. The rich orchestrations, the nicely worked out counterpoints and the rousing themes of Independence Day I miss.

Than we have reached an impasse in the conversation, as I think TND is a brilliant Bond score, and The Stepford Wives is a wonderul melodic score.

Zimmer's score didn't help. Although I do like "A Hard Teacher". nice use of thematic and harmonic variations

While I am not a big fan of the score, it is not the pounding power-anthem and action music one might expect, aside from the battle scene at the end (which is no smarter than the music). The main theme is actually used very sparingly.

[MSM 126]

Than we have reached an impasse in the conversation, as I think TND is a brilliant Bond score, and The Stepford Wives is a wonderul melodic score.

Maybe I have listened too many John Barry Bond scores Stepford Wives I'm curious to hear some time.

[Morlock 11]

http://www.davidarnold.com/

In the media section (at the bottom), there's a short clip that features the two main themes.

[MSM 126]

http://www.davidarnold.com/

In the media section (at the bottom), there's a short clip that features the two main themes.

Thanks, I'll check it out asap!

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

James Newton Howard is just waiting in line to be the next best thing. Williams is in the way.

Did I just agree with you?

I agree that it's very unlikely for anyone to ever reach the levels Williams has in the film music world. But there are definitely those out there with real talent. Aside from JNH, Giacchino seems to have great promise from what I've heard (and is young/new enough to not have become too established), and I've been getting introduced to more Arnold lately, and am quite impressed. But Giacchino would be more likely to collaborate with Spielberg as others have explained, and I would hope Spielberg would choose him over Zimmer.

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,631]

Wait...William Ross.He did wtite The Flying Car didn't he?

[Morlock 11]

Yes, we haven't been talking enough about Ross and CoS. Please, let's divert this thread to that as well!

[Neimoidian 14]

If Spielberg begins working with Zimmer after Williams retires or passes (heaven forbid) than that will officially mark the end of my respect for the man. Not that I despise Zimmer but his heavy-handed approach toward LAst Samurai really hurt much of that film. On a side note, even though I revile Horner's plagiarism, I would have much prefered Zwick to have used him on that project. He FINALLY would have had a viable excuse to use that damned shakuhachi!

And I think the score was the best element in that movie

Have you heard The Stepford Wives or Tomorrow Never Dies?

The Stepford Wives, no. I'm sorry I didn't know it was his. Tomorrow Never Dies I didn't like. I actually don't like any of his Bond Scores. They're too massive, too much electronical, too themeless and too harmonically unskillfully written/orchestrated. Too bland in short. The rich orchestrations, the nicely worked out counterpoints and the rousing themes of Independence Day I miss.

Than we have reached an impasse in the conversation, as I think TND is a brilliant Bond score, and The Stepford Wives is a wonderul melodic score.

Don't forget last year's "Amazing Grace". It's 100% (or at least 99%) orchestral, very restrained, very melodic and decent for sure. "TND" on the other hand isn't like John Barry's score, that's for sure. Barry is a genious and his work was perfect, but still it doesn't change my opinion that "TND" was terrific (I personally prefer it to the "ID4").

Wait...William Ross.He did wtite The Flying Car didn't he?

I've heard he wrote most of the "Chamber of Secrets".

[Simon R. 10]

Wait...William Ross.He did wtite The Flying Car didn't he?

Of course he didn't, that's so obviously Williams. Was it a joke?

[ChuckM 1]

Edward Shearmur, Michael Giacchino, or Joel McNeely. (No particular order)

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I second the petition:

Hair to John Williams!

[Morlock 11]

[Vaderbait1 1]

A few years ago David Arnold would have been an absolute lock. But as of late he seems to have totally went the wrong way with his musical career (2 Fast 2 Furious?!). He should be doing more big budget, epic movies instead of obscure action movies that only require a generic, brain-dead techno score.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I forgot about McNeely...I'd like to see him get more big-budget/mainstream/non-straight-to-DVD-Disney-sequel films. He's great (and I haven't even heard Shadows of the Empire)!

Ray Barnsbury

[MSM 126]

I second the petition:

Hair to John Williams!

And you'd agree with this one:

Hail to John Williams!

How about Bruce Broughton?

[judicator 0]

No-one currently working in the film industry.

I think that film scoring as an art has become reduced, mostly, to mere sonic props, and the state of things will likely linger as such, with the odd exception, for years to come, at least in Hollywood.

But I do think we will see a new flow of classically trained composers with an interest in film scoring (and an interest in what Williams represents in terms of technical mastery), and in some more years, this will become more apparent also in the industry, and new talents will emerge, and provide a breath of fresh air to the by now very stagnant MV-type composer with only a fleeting and superficial knowledge of anything beyond pop-musical terrain.

100% Agree with you Marcus. I have been feeling the same way for a long time about the state of film scoring

Hmm, I believe that composers these days ought to go back to study Wagner, Walton, Holst, and subsequently Korngold and Steiner etc. to adequately understand the fundamentals of late-romantic classical scoring, before they are able to write in a similar sound world as John Williams does. Subsequently, it is a matter of how many opportunities they get to see if what they write works...

[ADigitalMan 0]

David Arnold is unquestionably the heir to John Barry. To John Williams, that's another thing.

[Neimoidian 14]

David Arnold is unquestionably the heir to John Barry. To John Williams, that's another thing.

Only as a Bond-franchize composer. Arnold's music is generally unlike Barry's in any way.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I saw Zimmer's name thrown around about The Last Samurai. Let's carry that over to the MV topic and focus on the replacement for Williams, which ironically will most likely be Zimmer.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I second the petition:

Hair to John Williams!

And you'd agree with this one:

Hail to John Williams!

How about Bruce Broughton?

Why did it took so long to someone think of Broughton? Of his generation, and in my opinion, he is the best one around. And one of the few composers working today fully capable of doing anything. And even if he's no John Williams, he would provide great backing to any Spielberg film.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Giacchino. Young, talented, and Spielberg knows it.

Thats why Im pumped about him. Everyone knows his talent he just needs the proper project. Maybe it will be Star Trek XI...

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Huh , I always read this topic as Hair to JW and though this is somekind of petition.

[AI 0]

The heir to Williams, for all practical purposes, will be Hans Zimmer. Spielberg loves the guys music, they are friends, and so on.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Huh , I always read this topic as Hair to JW and though this is somekind of petition.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Ok , I should read more carefully.

[Hlao-roo 389]

LeBron James. End of discussion.

[MSM 126]

http://www.davidarnold.com/ In the media section (at the bottom), there's a short clip that features the two main themes.

I listened to the clips, and they're ok.

The heir to Williams, for all practical purposes, will be Hans Zimmer. Spielberg loves the guys music, they are friends, and so on.

Zimmer's Main Themes are strong in a way most of the time. The underscores however are always really really bland, and Spielberg doesn't see it. As soon as there's no recognizable theme, all the weaknesses of Zimmer become obvious, e.g. in King Arthur.

[Saxbabe 28]

Well, there was a time back there when Joel McNeely was seen as the natural heir to JW, around the time of Young Indy and SOTE, and he wrote at that time some really nice action scores, and children's Disney adventure movie stuff that showed solid and interesting good old-fashioned orchestral writing...he still has done some real gems for independent films and animated Disney, but I wonder if he's been so typecast in the intervening decade that it isn't too late for him. I'd still love to see him keep doing (quality, I hope) live-action movies, he always writes such consistently good, enjoyable scores.

Bruce Broughton is another, that has written some amazing scores, with superb orchestral writing, but I feel like is also in the "might've been" camp now. Through no fault of his own! He's done some great scores for TV shows and movies (HBO's Warm Springs is gorgeous), and is still an awesome composer. I think, and have always thought he and McNeely are so underused.

Is this dealing with who Spielberg is going to work with in the future? It'll be JW until he dies like 25 years from now...so enough discussion about that...

But the next to achieve that kind of stature? Yeah, definitely JNH IMO. But Silvestri is incredible too. A lot of it depends on their future luck with projects and director collaborations. I think Alexandre Desplat has written some very well-crafted and provocative scores so far too, I always look with interest at his new projects. Giacchino will be interesting to watch as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Only as a Bond-franchize composer. Arnold's music is generally unlike Barry's in any way.

Last Of The Dogmen has a strong Barry-influence.

[Jeshopk 8]

Nobody's going to get that famous off of film scoring any time soon. Howard Shore had a crack at it and he's not going to be as famous as Williams. The LOTR scores may be more popular but his body of work is not very well known. Williams has the pops, lucas and spielberg making him a high profile composer. Oh, that and his music is also very memorable. It will be a long time before the stars align again.

[Neimoidian 14]

Only as a Bond-franchize composer. Arnold's music is generally unlike Barry's in any way.

Last Of The Dogmen has a strong Barry-influence.

Never noticed it, but if it is there, it's not THAT apparent as in Bond movies. I must listen to "Last of the Dogmen" again and look for it. Still, except some influence on particular music, Barry's sound is very unique and mostly unlike what DA usually wrotes.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Nobody's going to get that famous off of film scoring any time soon. Howard Shore had a crack at it and he's not going to be as famous as Williams. The LOTR scores may be more popular but his body of work is not very well known. Williams has the pops, lucas and spielberg making him a high profile composer. Oh, that and his music is also very memorable. It will be a long time before the stars align again.

I agree. Films and film music were in just the right place for Williams to begin his rise to the position he holds today. I don't think anyone will ever have the same impact he has...aside from his music being terrific of course, it's kind of a right place/right time situation.

Ray Barnsbury

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No one here seems to realize that Zimmer has had the same inpact as Williams hads, probably even to a greater extent.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Maybe so...but I bet the public could not hum you a Zimmer score, but they could probably give you a Williams score, whether it be Star Wars, or Indiana Jones, or Jaws, Williams is still the best composer of all time.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

but I bet the public could not hum you a Zimmer score, but they could probably give you a Williams score, whether it be Star Wars, or Indiana Jones, or Jaws, Williams is still the best composer of all time.

Ray Barnsbury, I call you to the stand.

You were making some statements about the inaccuracies of labeling people blind a day or so ago?

[Trent Hoyt 13]

why do i get insulted every time i make a post??

[indy4 155]

Nobody's going to get that famous off of film scoring any time soon. Howard Shore had a crack at it and he's not going to be as famous as Williams. The LOTR scores may be more popular but his body of work is not very well known. Williams has the pops, lucas and spielberg making him a high profile composer. Oh, that and his music is also very memorable. It will be a long time before the stars align again.

I agree that HS won't become the next JW, but he does have Martin Scorsese, which is like, the third or fourth most popular living director.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

why do i get insulted every time i make a post??

Well my first guess would be the capitalization...or lack thereof.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

but I bet the public could not hum you a Zimmer score, but they could probably give you a Williams score, whether it be Star Wars, or Indiana Jones, or Jaws, Williams is still the best composer of all time.

Ray Barnsbury, I call you to the stand.

You were making some statements about the inaccuracies of labeling people blind a day or so ago?

Of course, that label will apply to some here and there. I never said it was always used incorrectly.

But in the interest of peace, I'm staying neutral this time.

Ray Barnsbury - whose life, by the way, has been completely changed by Blumenkohl's enlightening new signature!

[King Mark 3,631]

Oh i listen to everyone else minus the Zimmer crowd,I still see Blumenkhol's first pic

[Marcus 390]

I just have to express my frustration with Blumenkohl's signature:

Why is it blind to have preferences? Or even to actively ignore music that one considers sub-par?

I make my living writing music for the concert hall, and at times, also for film (more frequently theater), and find that most film composers today simply do not hold my interest, for the simple reason that I don't find their work very good.

This is not called being blind, but merely selective.

I am not a film music fan per se, but a fan of one composer who happens to have spent most of his career writing for films, and whose work greatly impresses, moves and inspires me.

Why should anyone be deemed fanboy, or be made to seem less reflected for having an obvious preference, when perhaps precisely the opposite is true?

Ignoring, or choosing not to listen to something, as well as having a very clear preference, can also be about seeing, and even about having a deeper perspective. This is a completely valid position to take.

I feel very much entitled to dismiss works by composers I regard as inferior, and equally entitled to laud and applaud the work of a man who I consider to be one of the greatest composers (regardless of field) of all time.

[AI 0]

I wouldn't get bent out of shape about Blumenkohl's signature!, it's more a reflection of him than anything else.

People see the world they are destined to see it at any point in time. It is the nature of humans to limit those parameters to make sense of their own world. You can see it as JW vs Other composers, or you could take a larger perspective and see all film composers vs all other music. And so on, it spirals out endlessly.

[Jeshopk 8]

I feel very much entitled to dismiss works by composers I regard as inferior, and equally entitled to laud and applaud the work of a man who I consider to be one of the greatest composers (regardless of field) of all time.

My sentiments exactly. As far as current mainstream film music goes, Williams is the exception not the norm. It's quite easy to hear works by other film composers if you watch films. No reason to listen to the music unless it is good.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The signature is nothing more than overexaggerated board drama satire...no need to write essays on it people.

Oh i listen to everyone else minus the Zimmer crowd,I still see Blumenkhol's first pic

Yeah well...if the Stormtrooper's head bruises are any indication, your Vader helmet doesn't exactly help your vision.

It's quite easy to hear works by other film composers if you watch films. No reason to listen to the music unless it is good.

Sad part is Jesseboy....not many people even do that. See other thread with Vaderbait bashing Howard Shore's King Kong...which no one has even heard beyond 15 minutes.

[indy4 155]

No one here seems to realize that Zimmer has had the same inpact as Williams hads, probably even to a greater extent.

Incorrect!

Zimmer has had an impact, yes. Zimmer is a good composer (IMO),yes. But Zimmer has NOT had nearly as big as an impact as JW!!!

I mean, I've seen countless shows, where they parody the music from Jaws, even if the music has nothing to do with underwater. Same with E.T., Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Superman, and all of them contained music similiar to JW's scores.

Have you ever heard a music from POTC parodied? Or Lion King? Or M-I:2?

The only music in the world that's as popular to the general public as JW's is Henry Mancini's Pink Panther, John Barry's James Bond, and Bernard Herrmann's Psycho.

[Vaderbait1 1]

No one here seems to realize that Zimmer has had the same inpact as Williams hads, probably even to a greater extent.

Incorrect!

Zimmer has had an impact, yes. Zimmer is a good composer (IMO),yes. But Zimmer has NOT had nearly as big as an impact as JW!!!

I mean, I've seen countless shows, where they parody the music from Jaws, even if the music has nothing to do with underwater. Same with E.T., Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Superman, and all of them contained music similiar to JW's scores.

Have you ever heard a music from POTC parodied? Or Lion King? Or M-I:2?

The only music in the world that's as popular to the general public as JW's is Henry Mancini's Pink Panther, John Barry's James Bond, and Bernard Herrmann's Psycho.

Amen. Speaking of Psycho, I really need to find the Vertigo score. I hear it's great.

[indy4 155]

Vertigo is a great score, my favorite by Herrmann (although I only have that and Psycho). Some of it seems tiresome and/or repeating, but it's worth it for Scene d'amour, Prelude and Rooftop Chase, the necklace the return and the finale, and carlotta's portrait.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I've never found anything tiresome or jarringly repetitive about Vertigo. It's probably one of the most perfect scores of all time.

[Romão 2,274]

It's as good as film music gets.