Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can definitely understand why the people who hate "Can You Read My Mind?" hate it. It is pure cheese, pure sap, pure '70s. But I think it's like that for a reason, and I think it works extremely well in the movie.Bear in mind, that sequence is entirely from the point-of-view of Lois Lane. In other words, everything that happens is supposed to be viewed with her emotions in mind. That's why the cinematography gets a little fuzzy, and the movie takes a sidestep into a dreamlike state that doesn't exist in any other sequence. But it's totally in character: Lois is a hard-as-nails, uncompromising career woman . . . until she's in Superman's arms, at which point in time she turns into a ball of mush. Drivelling, whimpering, girly-gril mush. To prove it, she gets a song.To me, the artificiality of the whole thing is kind of the point. Why? Because this is a romance that can NEVER work. Even Superman II got that one right in the end. Therefore, you take the music -- representing Superman himself, and his ability to fly -- which is graceful, powerful, transcendant, and superimpose (pardon the pun) over the top of it a hopelessly artificial if charmingly sincere piece of cheese like "Can You Read My Mind?", and what you get is a musical portrait of a relationship that is doomed to exist only in the dreams of the two people involved. I'm not sure I'm saying that clearly enough, but it makes sense in my head.That said, yes, I can definitely understand why so many people find it cringe-inducing. I just don't happen to be one of them.You said it loud and clear... And I couldn't have expressed my self any better.What does everybody here think of For Always? I for one like it. The lyrics may be a bit corny, but it is so beautiful. I find it vastly superior to Can You Read My Mind.The vocalise on which the song is based, and is performed in the soundtrack by the great Barbara Boney, is in my mind one of Williams most sweet pieces.To me represents some aspects of motherhood, of the giving nature of it. Really wonderful.The song... well, the song is a deviation from the whole concept of the score. It may work, but not along with the score, not at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Methinks he feels the need to make up for other deficiencies.....If an inherent dislike of totally crud songs is some sort deficiency then call me a mongoloid. The song is utter pap and only the most die-hard of film music fans would argue with that fact, since they are the only demographic who might appreciate the brand of cheese it radiates. The theme itself is stunning though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I can definitely understand why the people who hate "Can You Read My Mind?" hate it. It is pure cheese, pure sap, pure '70s. But I think it's like that for a reason, and I think it works extremely well in the movie.Bear in mind, that sequence is entirely from the point-of-view of Lois Lane. In other words, everything that happens is supposed to be viewed with her emotions in mind. That's why the cinematography gets a little fuzzy, and the movie takes a sidestep into a dreamlike state that doesn't exist in any other sequence. But it's totally in character: Lois is a hard-as-nails, uncompromising career woman . . . until she's in Superman's arms, at which point in time she turns into a ball of mush. Drivelling, whimpering, girly-gril mush. To prove it, she gets a song.To me, the artificiality of the whole thing is kind of the point. Why? Because this is a romance that can NEVER work. Even Superman II got that one right in the end. Therefore, you take the music -- representing Superman himself, and his ability to fly -- which is graceful, powerful, transcendant, and superimpose (pardon the pun) over the top of it a hopelessly artificial if charmingly sincere piece of cheese like "Can You Read My Mind?", and what you get is a musical portrait of a relationship that is doomed to exist only in the dreams of the two people involved. I'm not sure I'm saying that clearly enough, but it makes sense in my head.That said, yes, I can definitely understand why so many people find it cringe-inducing. I just don't happen to be one of them.You said it loud and clear... And I couldn't have expressed my self any better.Compared to pop music today, which is very cynical, I can see why people think it is cheesy. It's a very naive (not in a bad way) song, as the lyrics state Lois feels like "a little girl" and that's the overall tone of the song and the romance, in the first film anyway. In the second one, the romance becomes more "adult". I really lament that fact that Williams never got a chance to musically further the romance, we lost some great music with the whole Donner-Brando-Williams fallout. That's for another topic though. CYRMM is a naive, flight of fancy, fantasy romance and it is not ashamed of it.Last month I went to a sci-fi concert here at the Baltimore Symphony and it was a lot of Williams, needless to say. They played the march from Superman and, to my total surprise, this song. Not the orchestra-only love theme from Superman but "Can You Read My Mind?" sung by Broadway singer Mike Eldred. It was a great performance and hearing it live I remembered how great it was. Being that it was sung by a male I only wish they'd have changed the one lyric to "little boy" instead of "little girl" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Anyone who actually likes the lyrical version needs to have their ears syringed. It was woeful then and it is woeful now. No surprises there.no your just being a stick in the mud, always complaining.its not a great song, but its fun, and its romantic.I love it.Are we talking about the song or the recited one?Burga - who likes the former but despises the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnurega1 0 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I love "For Always". I may be one of the few that like the duet between Josh Groban and Lara Fabian. The insrumental versions are played more, to be honest, but I have no problems with the vocal-accompanied songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Being that it was sung by a male I only wish they'd have changed the one lyric to "little boy" instead of "little girl" though. Well, it was a Broadway singer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 And it would render Superman a little...like Batman and Robin, if you get the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Anyone who actually likes the lyrical version needs to have their ears syringed. It was woeful then and it is woeful now. No surprises there.no your just being a stick in the mud, always complaining.its not a great song, but its fun, and its romantic.I love it.Are we talking about the song or the recited one?Burga - who likes the former but despises the latterI'm actually referring to the Margot Kidder version, though the other versions are pretty awful too. There is a reason nobody ever hears the song outside of the movie - not many people can stand it, believe it or not . The song is never licensed to TV shows, they never source it for use of some sort, unlike say Unchained Melody or (I've Had) The Time Of My Life. The radio stations don't ever play it either, well why not? Because it is cringe material and nothing more! Sorry but it just is. If you guys love it to bits well that's just fine and dandy and I'm glad someone finds something enjoyable about it, but please don't be offended when I decide to slate it in a thread which welcomes debate on the song in question. To paraphrase an earlier post: Some people just can't accept that people have different tastes blah blah... Bunch of hypocrites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 your stupidity is showing Great Eye, lose your hate too.always so negative you are, and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 your stupidity is showing Great Eye, lose your hate too.always so negative you are, and wrong.Oh give me a break. The stupidity comment is nothing out of the ordinary from you, but "hate"? That is a strong word. Perhaps you invest much emotion into this forum, I on the other hand do not. This place is just somewhere I enjoy to stick my head in when I can before doing something else. Do you find that difficult to understand? Hate is such a strong word, don't be silly or presumptuous enough to believe that I would actually go to the bother of typing in such tones on a mere message board, not all folk are like you Joe. If anything, you should "lose" your dinosaur attitude towards anyone who disagrees with you.Actually don't, because after all - that is lovable Joe's way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Great Eye why are you always so negative about stuff, any your whining is so cheap like a 2 dollar bottle.how can you hate on a work of John williams, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Oh forget it! Life is too short! Maybe there is a language barrier I'm unaware of.But just to clear something up, negativity is not something usually attributed to me. I speak my mind man, that is all! If love something I say so and if I dislike something I say so and there are no uncertain terms in how I word things. I don't beat about the bush, since that just wastes time for everyone. Me and you disagree on most things, which you interpret as negativity on my behalf. Well that is just wrong of you and a tiny little bit ignorant if I'm being honest, but I can forgive you that.Anyway, forget about it, its not really worth the toss is it? Oh and my name is Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Getting back to topic...The Great Eye as a point as to the song never being used out side the film. And yes, it's a louzy song outside the movie. But then again, isn't this film music?Isn't this suposed to first of all suport the action on-screen? And while at that, isn't it a great suporting kind of song?Of course, take the images out, I too can't stand many repeated listens... But in the film is quite good. Or so I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 actually in America the song is heard, not often, but occasionally, it is dreaded elevator music, etc.and nice to meet you Lee, my name is Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I watched Superman: The Movie yesterday and I must say I really don't like the character of Lois Lane; she doesn't appear like a nice person at all. The song was really silly, stupid and I don't like it. The theme is good though. I found the entire film to be somewhat oddish; some parts are really good, some parts are OK. Suprising that it took the film 45 minutes to get to the point where the actual film starts. And the special effects towards the end with the dam breaking look quite fake as well; you really can see they used models for that. The movie seems a bit dated, but still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 actually in America the song is heard, not often, but occasionally, it is dreaded elevator music, etc.and nice to meet you Lee, my name is Walter.Well of course it is! What with a username like Joey I should have known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Getting back to topic...The Great Eye as a point as to the song never being used out side the film. And yes, it's a louzy song outside the movie. But then again, isn't this film music?Isn't this suposed to first of all suport the action on-screen? And while at that, isn't it a great suporting kind of song?Of course, take the images out, I too can't stand many repeated listens... But in the film is quite good. Or so I feel.Very good point. A lot of people who complain about We Don't Wanna Grow Up from Hook never seem to take in mind that this was music written for a schoolplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 actually in America the song is heard, not often, but occasionally, it is dreaded elevator music, etc.and nice to meet you Lee, my name is Walter.Well of course it is! What with a username like Joey I should have known! either will do, as Im called Joe by my coworkers, Joey by friends and family, and sometimes Walter since its my first nameour Master Stefan often chastizes me by calling me Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Wow, are you finally coming out (again)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I love "For Always". I may be one of the few that like the duet between Josh Groban and Lara Fabian. The insrumental versions are played more, to be honest, but I have no problems with the vocal-accompanied songs.Agreed, although I prefer the orchestral version over anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Getting back to topic...The Great Eye as a point as to the song never being used out side the film. And yes, it's a louzy song outside the movie. But then again, isn't this film music?Isn't this suposed to first of all suport the action on-screen? And while at that, isn't it a great suporting kind of song?Of course, take the images out, I too can't stand many repeated listens... But in the film is quite good. Or so I feel.Very good point. A lot of people who complain about We Don't Wanna Grow Up from Hook never seem to take in mind that this was music written for a schoolplay.Indeed, except from the gist of this thread I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that this conversation was about the song itself; as its own entity. The ironic thing is I actually don't mind the subtle (yes subtle!) use of the otherwise awful lyrics in the film itself, in fact its quite charming in that context. But as a song on its own it is dire to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 About a year ago I was riding in the car with my in-laws and they had a light/soft rock station on and the McGovern version of CYRMM came on. After it played they DJ called it the theme from Superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Well he was not wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Well he was not wrong.I didn't say he was wrong but more accurately as we all know, it is the love theme. It is A theme, not THE theme from the film. I was just happy to know that it got some airplay though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'd love JW in general to have more airplay. But then wouldn't we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 how can you hate on a work of John williams,So I take it you no longer loathe AotC then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 That was obviously by cloned Williams.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'd love JW in general to have more airplay. But then wouldn't we all.My local classical station played Williams throughout the day on JWs birthday this year. Otherwise, I rarely ever hear film scores on there. That was kind of neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I think that last year they did the same around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitch 57 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I vaguely remember you saying it to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 What does everybody here think of For Always? I for one like it. The lyrics may be a bit corny, but it is so beautiful. I find it vastly superior to Can You Read My Mind.The theme (Monica's) is just beautiful. I like the song pretty well too, but I definitely prefer the instrumental renditions in the score.Yes, I obviously like the orchestral version much more. But for a song, it's not bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I find it to be a very beautiful song, in both music and lyrics. It represents a purity of spirit that has sadly been taken away from many people in this modern age.Romantic love is the core of humanity, along with Parental love, as heard in For Always. To find it corny, or cheesy, is a reflection of your own mind, and how you might have failed to discover this kind of innocence and sweetness in adult life. Cynicism has a way of manifesting itself insidiously, and sublty, which is magnified through the cultural outlets. DJ's don't play this song because it makes them feel inadequate about their own lives. They wish to have such an experience, but they havent drawn it to themselves, so they disregard it as B.S. It's simple, humans are by design, loving and giving creatures, not warring and aggressive ones. But throughout history, the dark forces have manifested in various ways to lead people astray, to act in a way which is not in alignment with the light and the true way. the way of love, the fabric that binds humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 how can you hate on a work of John williams,So I take it you no longer loathe AotC then?I was just giving him a taste of what the rest of you give me for dislike much of JW newer stuff.I do like For Always, orchestral and both song version, I just like Can You Read my Mind better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I can definitely understand why the people who hate "Can You Read My Mind?" hate it. It is pure cheese, pure sap, pure '70s. But I think it's like that for a reason, and I think it works extremely well in the movie.Bear in mind, that sequence is entirely from the point-of-view of Lois Lane. In other words, everything that happens is supposed to be viewed with her emotions in mind. That's why the cinematography gets a little fuzzy, and the movie takes a sidestep into a dreamlike state that doesn't exist in any other sequence. But it's totally in character: Lois is a hard-as-nails, uncompromising career woman . . . until she's in Superman's arms, at which point in time she turns into a ball of mush. Drivelling, whimpering, girly-gril mush. To prove it, she gets a song.To me, the artificiality of the whole thing is kind of the point. Why? Because this is a romance that can NEVER work. Even Superman II got that one right in the end. Therefore, you take the music -- representing Superman himself, and his ability to fly -- which is graceful, powerful, transcendant, and superimpose (pardon the pun) over the top of it a hopelessly artificial if charmingly sincere piece of cheese like "Can You Read My Mind?", and what you get is a musical portrait of a relationship that is doomed to exist only in the dreams of the two people involved. I'm not sure I'm saying that clearly enough, but it makes sense in my head.That said, yes, I can definitely understand why so many people find it cringe-inducing. I just don't happen to be one of them.Well said. Although for me one of the best cues in Superman's score is Williams' concert version of the "Love Theme".For our first dance at our wedding my wife and I used Lara Fabian's solo version of "For Always". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWfangirl1992 18 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It's such a beautiful piece...until she starts talking then i groan. It kills the piece. It is as a few people said 'corny'. It just makes me wanna throw my ipod across the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglorfin 196 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Do it so you'll have an excuse to get Touch. I just watched Superman the Movie few days ago and I must say that it's not such horror in the movie, but to listen to the film version with the monologue on the CD is a real punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg1138 3 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Methinks he feels the need to make up for other deficiencies.....If an inherent dislike of totally crud songs is some sort deficiency then call me a mongoloid.Not QUITE what I meant - but you kinda proved the point anyway by doing it again, so thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Whatever make you feel intellectually superior I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 The melody of 'For Always' is terrific, and the words aren't bad. I don't like the recorded version, however- the voices chosen make it feel a bit too 'pop-ish' for my tastes. And the multiple appearances of the melody in different guises on the CD are also quite unabalanced with the rest of the score (especially since the core melody feels a bit creepy to me, it always brings to mind it's appropriately inappropriate use in the film). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odnurega1 0 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 I found this today on youtube. Thought it would make some of you laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldsmithfan 6 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The theme is beautiful, the lyrics are garbage and UTTERLY ruin it.Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I found this today on youtube. Thought it would make some of you laugh. Mmm, muffin top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i think we all agree that she sings better than margott kidder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Give the girl a rating! Let her know that her 'talents' don't go unnoticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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