The Jungle Chase

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I don't know if this kind of topic is considered spam, but lately I can't get enough of this piece! Everytime I hear it I discover something new. It's just there is so much going on, it's simply amazing. And this is one action cue that has practically all the motifs from the film, except curiously enough the Crystal Skull theme. It's also a great mix of modern and old Williams.

I have this particular version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPtHnSjZNLo

So anyways... What do you think about this piece?

[Henry B 50]

Certainly one of the best pieces from KotCS, nearly as good in my opinion as selections from the trilogy. I like the alternate last part of "Jungle Chase" that's been glimpsed in documentaries and games. It's very much in the Last Crusade style. It's also cool to hear Marion's theme in an action sort of treatment.

[indy4 155]

While it's not the best action cue from KotCS, I'd say it's better than most if not all of the action cues of ToD. It ranks below most of the other Indy action cues, but it's still great. And I agree, it is good example of the JW of old meeting the JW of late. This is true in several ways, one being the creation of a special theme for this specific set piece: the "Adventures of Mutt" theme. I agree with whoever said that the theme was really a theme for the action set piece, not for Mutt himself, that Williams liked enough to develop into a full concert version. As a result, "The Jungle Chase" is both more reliant on character themes than older JW action cues, but less than recent JW cues as it does have a specific theme for itself. Irina's Theme in particular gets a great workout. The end of the album/film version (haven't listened to the alternate yet) sounds a bit too similar to "Belly of the Steal Beast," but other than that it is a pretty fresh cue for Williams.

[King Mark 3,631]

The expanded version is great, the OST hack job not so. There's no reason why Williams would want to edit this down for the album

[Datameister 2,097]

I like this sequence. It cannot match vintage Williams action music, IMO, but there are some really fantastic moments.

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

[Quintus 5,399]

The music is pretty good, but I can't get those horrid images out of my mind.

[Josh500 1,615]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

Really? Better than Desert Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Mine Cart Chase?

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

yes

[Quintus 5,399]

Heathen.

[Richard Penna 3,781]

The full track is almost the only cue I want that's still unreleased (I'd also like the Knowledge Was Their Treasure cue but my DVD-rip is clean enough).

The one in that youtube clip sounds like the expanded one I made (with the addition of the 'twinkly' bit early on) and I'm still very happy with it as an edit, although I think it does highlight how relatively broken up this cue is in terms of ideas.

I can't help remembering though, when first hearing the title Jungle Chase, that we'd get something really 'out there' with some non-thematic outbursts, maybe some atmospheric stuff and some frenetic jungle percussion. Williams' edit doesn't fulfil the idea to me. Even the full version doesn't seem to earn that prestigious track title, even if it is musically superb. It's just generic, on the scale that I consider KotCS 'generic' as a whole - good, competent scoring, but great music? Naa.

[Quintus 5,399]

Precisely. Yet some here still get outraged when others suggest such a thing and start asking questions like, "why bother coming to this place at all blah blah blah". Fanboys.

[Faleel 5,454]

i like the version of the raiders march thats comes right before the OST portion starts

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

The full track is almost the only cue I want that's still unreleased (I'd also like the Knowledge Was Their Treasure cue but my DVD-rip is clean enough).

The one in that youtube clip sounds like the expanded one I made (with the addition of the 'twinkly' bit early on) and I'm still very happy with it as an edit, although I think it does highlight how relatively broken up this cue is in terms of ideas.

I can't help remembering though, when first hearing the title Jungle Chase, that we'd get something really 'out there' with some non-thematic outbursts, maybe some atmospheric stuff and some frenetic jungle percussion. Williams' edit doesn't fulfil the idea to me. Even the full version doesn't seem to earn that prestigious track title, even if it is musically superb. It's just generic, on the scale that I consider KotCS 'generic' as a whole - good, competent scoring, but great music? Naa.

But... Desert chase does not evoke sand or desert in its instrumentraion, or Egyptian music. I mean 'To Cairo' does, but not this one.

Mine car chase does reflect some rollercoeaster and Belly of the... reflects a tank...

It's sad that Jungle chase is described as generic, when it is the most thematically driven williams' action setpiece in the last 10 years..

[Richard Penna 3,781]

But... Desert chase does not evoke sand or desert in its instrumentraion, or Egyptian music. I mean 'To Cairo' does, but not this one.

Mine car chase does reflect some rollercoeaster and Belly of the... reflects a tank...

It's sad that Jungle chase is described as generic, when it is the most thematically driven williams' action setpiece in the last 10 years..

I don't measure how generic something it just by its use of themes. There's so much more than that - use of instrumentation, going outside the composer's usual palette. I hear nothing very special along those lines in Jungle Chase.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

its a fantastic piece of action scoring....if thats considered generic I don't know what most of the rest of modern action film scoring is then.

[indy4 155]

Yeah...the only part that seems like Williams was on autopilot for for those very brief xylophone/flute hits and the end that sounds like LC. But even for the latter there's enough new stuff that we didn't hear in LC that I still like the passage. So a few seconds of genericness in a 9 minute cue is fine for me.

[Quintus 5,399]

By most film composers standards, it's high end stuff. By John Williams' standards, it largely generic.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

By most film composers standards, it's high end stuff. By John Williams' standards, it largely generic.

Maybe that's true, but I think it was a kind of process for Williams. I mean, after so much time without writing a piece like this, it was a great way to return to that. And I bet restarting with this kind of scoring really helped for when scoring Tintin...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

I like the first minute or so (unreleased), the driving rhythm. It loses me as it goes on. I hate that part where the Raiders March b section builds and then abruptly ends.

[Morn 8]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

Really? Better than Desert Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Mine Cart Chase? :cool:

Yes, much. I love it, complex brutal brass. Great rhythms.

I think a great action track of a similar style is general grevious in ROTS.

[Quintus 5,399]

I really believe it's a generational thing for some people to prefer stuff in Indy IV to the originals.

[Richard Penna 3,781]

I prefer ToD and LC to almost everything in KotCS, but that's only because I think KotCS is largely devoid of any inspiration.

[Hlao-roo 389]

On par with Ray Allen's performance in Game 7.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I prefer ToD and LC to almost everything in KotCS, but that's only because I think KotCS is largely devoid of any inspiration.

I'm half an half, some of it I find tedious, but some of it is amazing, it's just having the patience to wade through sometimes.

The generational comment is an interesting one, especially when applied in a way that I don't think Quint was referring to, where a lot of the skull stuff harks back to a lot of 40s and 50s composing styles and atmosphere, which I love but I know a lot of people don't get along with that kind of thing so I can understand why it's not necessarily attractive to some people. The action sequences are pretty cool, but not that interesting or even fun compared to any from the previous three films.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah, the B-movie inspired skull music is a nice touch.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

even by Williams standards I think the Jungle Chase is a fine piece of work. Yes I just listened to it again (the expanded one) and it can stand proudly along side the best of the original three. I don't think its any more generic than any of the 80s JW action music, if by 'generic' you mean how similar it sounds to his other work in the surrounding time periods respectively.

[Demondm810 399]

I absolutely love The Jungle Chase. Having said that, I slightly prefer the Desert Chase. It's just too bad ass to be bested.

[Quintus 5,399]

The biggest difference between Jungle Chase and a cue like Desert Chase is one is a dazzling, stirring and downright barnstorming illustration of the very finest in action film scoring craft, and the other isn't.

[Demondm810 399]

The biggest difference between Jungle Chase and a cue like Desert Chase is one is a dazzling, stirring and downright barnstorming illustration of the very finest in action film scoring craft, and the other isn't.

LOL Brilliant.

[Datameister 2,097]

Haha, pretty much. Don't get me wrong, Williams' 2000s action music can be a lot of fun, and the complete jungle chase sequence has some really great moments. But the way he tailored the music so perfectly to the actions and to the emotion of the actions back in the olden days was just astounding. Something about his later action music often isn't quite as compelling to me. He used to have this way of crafting these new musical ideas for each action sequence, ideas that were every bit as amazing as the actual themes of the score. He's tended to be more hit-and-miss in recent years, and he'll often rely on the sort of flourishes and fanfares and punctuated blasts of brass that he used to use more as connective material and background for more compelling and unique melodic ideas. Again, not always true - almost every action cue has some of those "WOW!" moments. I think the whole sequence we're talking about starts and ends with some of its best moments, because Williams creates really emotionally straightforward, interesting musical ideas to develop. That ostinato in the last few minutes is outstanding.

Also, Williams' older action music benefits from being recorded with a more raw and energetic sound. I do enjoy the cleaner, more modern sound as well, but there's something special about the tension inherent in the sound of late-70s/early-80s LSO recordings, for instance. If we could hear the jungle chase recorded in that sort of environment, some opinions might be a little different. It does make a difference.

[Quintus 5,399]

JW's finest setpiece cues tell musical stories - there's a narrative: a beginning, middle and end. He hasn't told a "story" for many years now and he certainly didn't do so at any point in KotCS. If anything, it felt like he was working his way down an old worn check list.

Data, your second paragraph is very interesting, I'm inclined to agree with you.

[Datameister 2,097]

I somewhat disagree with your blanket statement about all his more recent scores - I do think there are story-like highlights in what he's done all the way up through KOTCS. He used to be much better at shaping the whole story arc of a sequence or even a whole film, yes, but then again, he used to get much better films to score, with much more of that arc built in. Although I'd never argue that Williams would score Star Wars or Raiders the same way now as he did back in the day, I do think we'd get a better score now for those films than we got for something like KOTCS or the prequels. There's only so much a composer can do if he or she wants to be truly considerate of the film.

[Quintus 5,399]

I said many years. The Prequel scores and Potter came before that

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

There's that alternate version of the Raiders March that comes out of nowhere and is then brought back briefly in the end credits. Why Williams didn't develop it, I haven't a clue. It's one of the few things he seemed to genuinely get right in KOTCS.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

JW's finest setpiece cues tell musical stories - there's a narrative: a beginning, middle and end. He hasn't told a "story" for many years now and he certainly didn't do so at any point in KotCS. If anything, it felt like he was working his way down an old worn check list.

Data, your second paragraph is very interesting, I'm inclined to agree with you.

I don't know what you are talking about there, how do you define musical narrative because I think The Jungle Chase definitely has narrative.

[Delorean90 42]

I don't know how much alternate material was recorded for "The Jungle Chase," but what we've gotten from the video games is just outstanding. I'd love to find out what all is alternate and what is unused--'cause we know there's still unused, non-alternate material out there.

[Pieter Boelen 741]

What's all this talk of an alternate jungle chase?

I haven't been keeping up with things and that does sound very potentially interesting!

[crocodile 8,075]

What? Where? How?

Karol - who is now puzzled

[Josh500 1,615]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

Really? Better than Desert Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Mine Cart Chase?

Yes, much. I love it, complex brutal brass. Great rhythms.

I think a great action track of a similar style is general grevious in ROTS.

I am by no means one of those people who say "The Jungle Chase" is mediocre or generic for JW, not at all, but I personally think "Belly of the Steel Beast" and "Desert Chase" beat "The Jungle Chase" any day of the week.

But yeah, "The Jungle Chase" is one of the best JW action cues of the 00's.

[crocodile 8,075]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

Really? Better than Desert Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Mine Cart Chase?

Yes, much. I love it, complex brutal brass. Great rhythms.

I think a great action track of a similar style is general grevious in ROTS.

I am by no means one of those people who say "The Jungle Chase" is mediocre or generic for JW, not at all, but I personally think "Belly of the Steel Beast" and "Desert Chase" beat "The Jungle Chase" any day of the week.

But yeah, "The Jungle Chase" is one of the best JW action cues of the 00's.

I would agree with Desert Chase being superior, but the tank sequence from LC has exactly the same problem that Jungle Chase has too. They just are not as coherent musically. Which doesn't mean I don't love them.

Karol

[Josh500 1,615]

My favorite action piece from the quadrilogy...

Really? Better than Desert Chase, Belly of the Steel Beast, The Mine Cart Chase?

Yes, much. I love it, complex brutal brass. Great rhythms.

I think a great action track of a similar style is general grevious in ROTS.

I am by no means one of those people who say "The Jungle Chase" is mediocre or generic for JW, not at all, but I personally think "Belly of the Steel Beast" and "Desert Chase" beat "The Jungle Chase" any day of the week.

But yeah, "The Jungle Chase" is one of the best JW action cues of the 00's.

I would agree with Desert Chase being superior, but the tank sequence from LC has exactly the same problem that Jungle Chase has too. They just are not as coherent musically. Which doesn't mean I don't love them.

Karol

You know, coherence is not something I necessarily look for in a film score. In a classical composition like a symphony, sure, but not in an action cue in a movie. It's great if there's coherence there, but it's not a priority.

JW writes whatever he finds necessary to accompany the scene, that's all, and I think he suceeded splendidly here.

[Jeshopk 8]

I love this piece. It's sort of like an Empire Strikes Back action piece, and then you have the Indy and Marion quotes, the Swashbuckling stuff, and finally a classic Williams action march motif at the end. So, so satisfying. Let's not forget Irina's theme woven throughout. Gonna listen to it right now then.

[Quintus 5,399]

JW's finest setpiece cues tell musical stories - there's a narrative: a beginning, middle and end. He hasn't told a "story" for many years now and he certainly didn't do so at any point in KotCS. If anything, it felt like he was working his way down an old worn check list.

Data, your second paragraph is very interesting, I'm inclined to agree with you.

I don't know what you are talking about there, how do you define musical narrative because I think The Jungle Chase definitely has narrative.

I think Jungle Chase is merely a sequence of orchestrational prowess and flair - I personally hear nothing which which ties it all together; obligatory Raider's March aside. Desert Chase, Indy's First Adventure and Belly of the Steel Beast on the other hand, have a sense of driven urgency and deeply thoughtful motivation - the listener can almost second guess where the music is going to go next, where the next flourish, or cresendo will come into play. The very nature of a great Indy movie and score somehow makes the experience an inevitable one, predictable even.

Then again perhaps I'm wrong; perhaps it all boils down to a matter of taste, again.

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

I think Jungle Chase is merely a sequence of orchestrational prowess and flair - I personally hear nothing which which ties it all together, obligatory Raider's March aside. Desert Chase, Indy's First Adventure and Belly of the Steel Beast on the other hand, have a sense of driven urgency and deeply thoughtful motivation - the listener can almost second guess where the music is going to go next, where the next flourish, or cresendo will come into play. The very nature of a great Indy movie and score somehow makes the experience an inevitable one, predictable even.

Predictable? A good trait?

[crocodile 8,075]

I think Jungle Chase is merely a sequence of orchestrational prowess and flair - I personally hear nothing which which ties it all together; obligatory Raider's March aside. Desert Chase, Indy's First Adventure and Belly of the Steel Beast on the other hand, have a sense of driven urgency and deeply thoughtful motivation - the listener can almost second guess where the music is going to go next, where the next flourish, or cresendo will come into play. The very nature of a great Indy movie and score somehow makes the experience an inevitable one, predictable even.

Yes, there is a clear storytelling there, where ideas develop organically. If anything, Ants! is more like this. BTW I really like this cue.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

Predictable? A good trait?

Sometimes, yes, of course it is.

You seem surprised?

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

Predictable is very similar to autopilot

[Quintus 5,399]

You're wrong you know

I remember back when Spielberg was predictable. One just new his latest movie was gonna be awesome.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Somebody should upload the alternates to YouTube so those who couldn't listen to it, are able to... I sound like one of them, curiously enough.

By the way... Remember that alternate passage with the LC-stlyed strings. Was that supposed to go with Mutt swinging the vines??