Sherlock (BBC)

[Jay 37,369]

Isn't Redbeard their childhood dog's name?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes. But I believe its significance has not yet been revealed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Agreed. We saw a short flashback.

 

So there's certainly a chance they are actually going somewhere with that.

[Jay 37,369]

I missed this, but Toby Jones was seen on a poster in the episode

 

 

Funny how it says "He's back"

 

I'm guessing since they had Sherlock say "It's never twins!" again this episode, he'll be Moriarty's brother or something.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

The BBC did a original Holmes story some years back with Rupert Everett as Sherlock. And in that, the solution WAS that it was twins.   

[Bilbo 3,709]

*shudders*

[Jay 37,369]

 

[Bofur01 245]

The soundtrack for The Six Thatchers has appeared on iTunes/Spotify etc, listenable now

[Bilbo 3,709]

New episode tonight. Looking forward to it and hoping it justifies some of the previous episode. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder...

[MedigoScan 324]

well

I think that was an improvement on last week

but it certainly sets some expectations for next week

 

 

[Bofur01 245]

Whoa, that was definitely an improvement! 

 

I thought it started off shakily and was begrudgingly thinking it'd be like T6T, but boy was I wrong. Moffat has done a Moffat the way only Moffat can. And somehow it worked!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Much better than last week! Can't wait to see how it all gets resolved and then get left with a two year cliffhanger! 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Six Thatchers soundtrack is really good.

 

As for tonight's episode... I'm still trying to process all that.

[Jay 37,369]

Woah.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I havent seen ep 2 yet, but based on what hints were thrown around I will say that Toby will turn out to be a brother of Sherlock and Mycroft.

 

[EDIT]

 

Well, not quite...

 

This was a much better episode.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nice to see both John and Sherlock absolutely ragged and about to lose it.

 

Toby Jones made an despicable villain, who's easy, unrestricted access to hospitals and the fact that he as shielded by his own fame is a clear nod to the whole Jimmy Saville debacle.

 

As usual the episode has a very intricate plot, augmented by loads of directorial flourishes. But while last week's entry it kinda seemed that was all it was this one is filled with sadness, guilt, anger, regret. It also, to a certain extent, finally humbles Sherlock. Who saw Mary give her life for his and doesnt have a clue how to possibly deal with that.

 

As usual the show does wallow in it's own cleverness. A cleverness that it at times mistakes for being smart. So the woman John  had a texting thing with was Sherlock's sister? There seriously isnt any single scene or line on the show that doesnt lead into some genius conspiracy I guess. But I'm happy to fully judge on that next week. It always was a show that likes to have it's cake and eat it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just watched The Despicable Bride for the first time since it came out. Really smart and well-done special that blends the usual psychoanalytical meta-philosophy with superb production design. Both Cumberbatch and Freeman look surprisingly right for their period roles.

 

Since Sherlock states both in this special and in The Six Thatchers that it's never twins, it must therefore follow that Eurus is his twin sister.

Mycroft seems to be aware of her existence still and figures she is "contained".

As far as we know now Holmes doesnt seem aware of her. Though the frequent hints of Red Beard, and the mention of the East Wind does mean her existence lingers in his mind.

 

One could postulate that aspects of The Abominable Bride already hints at her existence. At one point, when the "supposedly" present day Sherlock is digging in the Rigoletti grave he hears the words "Do not forget me". Eurus seems to be the forgotten sister.

 

At one point "period" Watson asks Sherlock what made him like this, such a cold, unemotional man.

 

My guess is we are heading into childhood trauma territory next week.

 

 

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Did they mention the East Wind in The Abominable Bride? Because Watson mentioned it at the end of His Last Vow, but he had no clue what was going on at the time, so that can't have been deliberate.

 

I rewatched The Abominable Bride before the start of series 4. It's a bit shoddy, and one of the things that struck me as wholly superfluous was the whole Invisible Army subplot. It's a nice statement on women's role in society, but what did it really have to do with the rest of the plot (i.e.: Sherlock Holmes uses an old resurrection mystery to solve a new one)?

 

Now that we know the final adversary of series 4 is a woman (Sherlock's sister, no less), will this subplot gain meaning? I'm curious to find out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

Because Watson mentioned it at the end of His Last Vow, but he had no clue what was going on at the time, so that can't have been deliberate.

 

Actually Sherlock mentioned it first

 

"The game is never over John. But there might be some new players now. That's okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.

 

John- "What's that?"

 

Sherlock- "It's a story my brother told me when we were kids. The East Wind, this terrifying force. That lays waste all in it's path. Seeks out the unworthy and plucks them from the Earth. That was generally me..."

 

John- "Nice"

 

Sherlock- "He was a rubbish big brother."

 

Some further ruminations.

 

This season (series) seems to follow the standard pattern of the show. More or less stand alone stories, tied together by the revelation of a criminal mastermind in the third episode. In series 1 Moriarty was indirectly involved in eps 1 and 2, but didnt reveal himself until the third. In series 2 it's pretty much the same deal with Moriarty (he had no involvement in the Baskerville case, but is seen as being let out of jail at the end of it). Series 3 had two more or less stand alone stories, but both foreshadow part of Magnussen's third.

 

Same thing again for series 4. Separate stories, but tied together by the revelation of Eurus.

 

I wonder if this whole "Miss me" Moriarty's return is something completely staged by Eurus and actually has nothing to do with Moriarty, or if the two actually go back a bit?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

For me, a mixture of the good (the brilliant Toby Jones and Una Stubbs) and the bad (not a fan of Sherlock's 'mopey smackhead' side ... half-an-hour in, I was yelling at the screen 'OH FOR GOD'S SAKE, SNAP OUT OF IT AND GET ON WITH IT!', or of the revelation that the thoroughly decent, dependable and loyal Watson had been a text cheat).

 

As for the revelation that the recipient of said texts, John's therapist and Smith's fake daughter were all the same woman (Sherlock and Mycroft's vengeful sister) ... I mean, I don't expect gritty realism from this show, But FFS!      

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've stopped expecting any form of realism since I figured out almost everyone on the show is super intelligent. With John being the normal one. (Even Mrs. Hudson isnt normal)

 

I'm sure next week there will be a breathtaking narrative scene that takes us through every one if Eurus' deceptions. And anyway. Sherlock is a master of disguise, so naturally his sister will be too.

 

Btw, anyone thinking Moffat and co really wanna write a Bond film? There have been a few nods before, but Toby Jones' first scene played like a Bond-villain scene, and they had Mrs. Hudson rocking up in an Aston

[Jay 37,369]

MISS ME?

 

Mycroft

Irene

Sherlock

Sherrinford

 

Moriarty

Eurus

?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Another Bond reference from last night's is that the portrait of the Queen on the wall of the MI6 office is the same one that's hanging on the wall of Bond's office in OHMSS. And in 'The Six Thatchers', Mary says in her note that she doesn't need Sherlock and John 'hanging on her gun arm' ... in the novel of The Spy Who Loved Me, Bond says to his love interest 'Don't hang on my gun arm, there's a good girl'. 

Also in 'His Last Vow', Mycroft calls Sherlock a 'blunt instrument' ... a description of Bond from the novels that was also used in Die Another Day and Casino Royale. And as you said Steef, there have been others. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Bond people seem to return the favor too. The current Q looks like Sherlock, and SPECTRE had the Moriarty actor.

[Jay 37,369]

 

[MedigoScan 324]

isnt 'The East Wind' a quote from the books anyway?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes. In the books, I believe it refers to the coming of World War I.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The "books" lol.

 

It's a reference to a single story, the very last one.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I know.

 

"In one of the books", then.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Since there are no references to the East Wind or a third sibling before The Last Vow I'm assuming that the concept was either conceived during that episode or in the year after. (possibly as an alternative to actually bringing Moriarty back, which would be stretching it even for this show).

 

15 hours ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

I rewatched The Abominable Bride before the start of series 4. It's a bit shoddy, and one of the things that struck me as wholly superfluous was the whole Invisible Army subplot. It's a nice statement on women's role in society, but what did it really have to do with the rest of the plot

 

Basically it's a fun and clever way to do a period episode that ties into the main story without actually taking that much further.

The subject of the role of women seemed to me at the time a way for Moffat and co to counter some of the accusations that have arisen of either the show, or Moffat being misogynistic. Particularly after The Last Vow, in which Holmes kills the villain, rather than a woman like in the original story.

The dismissive attitude of Sherlock concerning almost any character, including his best friend John does mean that he's often quite a dick towards woman. The writers occasionally counter that by having him seem incredibly chivalrous towards Mrs. Hudson or his deep fondness for Mary. But it hasnt gone unnoticed that while in the original Holmes stories Arlene Addler was famously the woman who defeated him, in the modern adaptation she actually does not. And eventually Sherlock saves her life.

 

To The Abominable Bride certainly seemed like a reaction to that criticism at the time. Perhaps it's also a set up for something more...

[Jay 37,369]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Since there are no references to the East Wind or a third sibling before The Last Vow I'm assuming that the concept was either conceived during that episode or in the year after. (possibly as an alternative to actually bringing Moriarty back, which would be stretching it even for this show).

 

They came up with the idea is Season 1, actually:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/sherlock-season-four-episode-two-holmes-sherlock-mycroft-spoilers-benedict-cumberbatch-a7517816.html

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They came up with the line for Series 1 it says, not so much the idea for Eurus.

[MedigoScan 324]

just realized

looking at some transcripts

that Watson is the only one who assumes the third sibling is a 'brother'

Mycroft never gives any indication

 

 

fair enough writers

[KK 3,307]

Much better, that last episode. Still over-the-top, sure, but with more heart and substance to back it up. And Toby Jones was just fantastic. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Grotesque and loathsome.

 

I was thinking. Sherlock did a fairly extensive deduction about Smith's "fake" daughter. Her relationship status, how she lived etc etc.

 

Assuming he wasnt wrong. Was that all stuff set up by Eurus to fool him? 

 

Also. The boardroom scene with Smith and later his daughter trying to write the note etc were all shown outside the context of Sherlock's meeting with Eurus. So that did all actually happen, right?

 

How did she get the note? Did she write her own? How did she even know about these confessions if people are drugged to forget them?

 

And finally...

 

Sherlock can get massive amounts of info from the tiniest details about a person, but he can't see if someone is wearing a disguise?

 

[Bofur01 245]

And also - Lady Smallwood said she'd have a relaxing weekend unless "she" calls. Mycroft assumed the PM... maybe he's wrong... tricksy hobbitses 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Was Theresa May already PM when this was written/shot?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Season 4 was apparently shot from April - August of last year. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So with a rewrite late in the game it's possible.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

Finally finished the episode yesterday (my original download had sync problems starting in the morgue scene, so I had to stop after less than an hour).

 

Still not quite sure about it. Some of the over the top silliness seemed out of character, both in the humorous bits (Mrs Hudson half turning into a hysteric super hero) and Sherlock's week long exact predictions of Watson's behaviour. As a result, I was half expecting the whole thing to turn out to be just a hallucination, so the way the case was actually resolved was good for the basic setup, but didn't quite reconcile me with some of the stuff that happened in the first half. I did like the final twist, and how the Sherlock and Watson characters are developed. Brilliant acting as well, of course. And a rather intense score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well Mrs. Hudson said from the very beginning. "I'm not your maid."

[Bilbo 3,709]

Kinda felt like that was the last episode ever 😕

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Can't wait!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

32 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Kinda felt like that was the last episode ever 😕

 

Probably wasn't.

 

If they do one more series, with separate case-based episodes, I'll be happy.

[Jay 37,369]

Oof, that was mostly terrible, with a nice final few minutes though. 

 

God, I hope if they make more episodes, they just have Holmes and Watson solving cases each week, without this endless family drama

[Arpy 4,145]

I think it was always heading this way though, the family drama aspect. 

 

I'm annoyed that Moffat and Co, have put this much effort into Sherlock and left Doctor Who to die a most painful death...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

As with all Moffat productions, this show has gone to shit.

 

[Jay 37,369]

The show's still produced more good episodes than bad without question, but oof, what a misfire of a season this was.  One good episode in the middle could not save the extremely poorly written other two

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

I've not seen any SHERLOCK beyond series 2, so I am unable to comment on the current quallity. Do JWfaners think that Moffatt is spreading himself too thin?