Star Wars Saga Blu-Ray Movies Announced

[Luke Skywalker 1,810]

Lucas' CGI looks like plastic, and I'm speaking about the entire saga here.

No, i think you are not speaking with your mouth there.

Bias bias bias.

There is stuff in the prequels that im sure you dont even know/knew was CGI.

Lucas' gets the best CGI ILM can provide. its unvelievable to think that they are sloppier working with him than with other directors.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

No, because the effects look real. Sound design is an important part of any film. Imagine what this guy could do with an actual budget on a real film. These are just 2 minute videos he makes in a few days.

Oh yeah, this looks convincing:

[Sandor 799]

I never said anything about Jurassic Park, or even Spielberg. I'm talking about George Lucas. Those are two tiny videos, hardly his best, that beat the crap out of the POS CGI in the prequels as well as the crap he added to the originals.

I'm kinda giving you the symbolic middlefinger here. Just close your eyes and imagine that those Mario effects were the *actual* effects from the Pod Race scene (TPM). Just imagine it. And now imagine that the Pod Race sequence as seen in TPM would have been created by a single geek at home. Now THAT would have made the impact that you imply these YouTube videos have. You're taking your grudge with Lucas to a level which borders absolute idiocracy.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The pod race scene is pretty damn good, but Lucas has a billion dollars to spend on effects. This kid doesn't, and they're effective.

[Sandor 799]

The pod race scene is pretty damn good, but Lucas has a billion dollars to spend on effects. This kid doesn't, and they're effective.

Yet this was NEVER the discussion. Someone implied that 'anyone' can create CGI effects nowadays as good as any Hollywood film. Yeah right...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Certainly not anyone. I'm sure there are some semi-professionals out there that can do a decent job though. The technology is now far cheaper and more readily available.

[davros72 1]

Exactly. These are not the films that we grew up with, they are basically George Lucas' own personal fan edits of the films. I want the films I grew up with. Empire is really the only one that isn't affected by his tinkering, but both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi (especially the latter) suffer from Lucas' own inability to let the films stay as they should be.

Well said. I want the films I grew up with, too. I was born in 1972 and was lucky enough to see each film, even the first, on their original theatrical release.

I want the version of Star Wars that I went to see in the theaters with my Dad before he died in 1980.

I want the versions that got me into film scores, that had me playing with action figures, reading the novelizations, learning about behind-the-scenes film making. I at least want the *option* to be able to have those original versions, and if I have to get the twelve thousand versions of each film we've had since 1997, fine, so be it.

[Sandor 799]

Certainly not anyone. I'm sure there are some semi-professionals out there that can do a decent job though. The technology is now far cheaper and more readily available.

The obvious flaw in this line of thinking is that so much many people think that it was technology that created the T-Rex in JP. It wasn't. Just because 'paint' is readily available doesn't mean anyone can start painting the Sistine Chapel. People like Dennis Muren are artists. You can not buy that. The technology itself is just a tool and basically worthless without a capable craftsman.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The pod race scene is pretty damn good, but Lucas has a billion dollars to spend on effects. This kid doesn't, and they're effective.

Yet this was NEVER the discussion. Someone implied that 'anyone' can create CGI effects nowadays as good as any Hollywood film. Yeah right...

I never said anyone and I never said any Hollywood film. Read my posts man!

[Datameister 2,096]

For clarification - if ILM did the exact same visual effects shots as that YouTuber, do you think the results would look worse?

[Sandor 799]

The pod race scene is pretty damn good, but Lucas has a billion dollars to spend on effects. This kid doesn't, and they're effective.

Yet this was NEVER the discussion. Someone implied that 'anyone' can create CGI effects nowadays as good as any Hollywood film. Yeah right...

I never said anyone and I never said any Hollywood film. Read my posts man!

You never said that, I know. Read the other posts man...! It was Luke!

For clarification - if ILM did the exact same visual effects shots as that YouTuber, do you think the results would look worse?

For clarification - if that YouTuber did the exact same effects as ILM, do you think the results would look worse?

[gkgyver 1,646]

Is this the same sort of discussion that people have about ANYONE being able to reproduce the Remote Control sound?

[lordskylark 1]

I still think the dragon in Dragonheart is one of the best one CGI creatures. I am actually really surprised that not much compares to it even today. I would have thought the CGI would have leapt much further in bounds.

[Quintus 5,399]

That Mario Kart video is ace!

Anyway, I don't know why you guys are arguing the toss about cgi quality in Star Wars blah blah blah...; when everyone knows that Weta Digital > ILM.

I still think the dragon in Dragonheart is one of the best one CGI creatures. I am actually really surprised that not much compares to it even today. I would have thought the CGI would have leapt much further in bounds.

I think it looks like a Pixar dragon in a live-action movie.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Anyway, I don't know why you guys are arguing the toss about cgi quality in Star Wars blah blah blah...; when everyone knows that Weta Digital > ILM.

WETA is waaay better than ILM, but oddly enough Rango is the best looking animated film I've seen. If only ILM put that much work into everything.

[Sandor 799]

Anyway, I don't know why you guys are arguing the toss about cgi quality in Star Wars blah blah blah...; when everyone knows that Weta Digital > ILM.

WETA is waaay better than ILM, but oddly enough Rango is the best looking animated film I've seen. If only ILM put that much work into everything.

I'm one of those guys who thinks that the best of ILM is better than the best of WETA.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Hey Koray, I'm not defending the prequels or Lucas' use of CGI in either the prequels or the original films, but I believe that image of the E.T.'s in the pod is 100% practical effects. It's just zoomed and cropped from the background of the frame on DVD.

As for whether the CGI looked good in the 1997 Special Editions...a lot of it did NOT. Notoriously. True, we were in a kind of between phase at that point where CGI was still in its infancy. Some of it looked downright bad. Jabba the Hutt, Greedo shooting first, the dance number in Jedi. In cases where new shots looked really good, it was poorly implemented. The end battle in Star Wars constantly switches between old model shots and new CGI. It's downright retarded. I would argue that those new dynamic shots don't even feel right in the movie. Like the new Mos Eisley, it looks completely different from the rest of the movie.

[Quintus 5,399]

Lucas' CGI looks like plastic, and I'm speaking about the entire saga here. This guy right here is going to win an Oscar someday. Unbelievable the stuff he does, all of his videos are fantastic.

After watching some of his videos I think you might be right. Clearly a talented guy.

[Luke Skywalker 1,810]

Anyway, I don't know why you guys are arguing the toss about cgi quality in Star Wars blah blah blah...; when everyone knows that Weta Digital > ILM.

WETA is waaay better than ILM, but oddly enough Rango is the best looking animated film I've seen. If only ILM put that much work into everything.

You only think that because Rango has a zimmer score, is made by gore verbinsky, and has a lot of hommages to morricone and leone's films.

bias bias bias.

but in fact, It is the best animated film to date (quality of CGI wise) but because it is by ILM.

As much as the clone wars is the best animated cgi tv series ever created (quality of cgi wise). Even if you think it is a ball of crap uberly big.

The pod race scene is pretty damn good, but Lucas has a billion dollars to spend on effects. This kid doesn't, and they're effective.

Yet this was NEVER the discussion. Someone implied that 'anyone' can create CGI effects nowadays as good as any Hollywood film. Yeah right...

I never said anyone and I never said any Hollywood film. Read my posts man!

You never said that, I know. Read the other posts man...! It was Luke!

yeah it was me...

the is some fan film that can have cgi as good as some 'crappy' hollywood movies. Of course nobdy can make weta or ilm quality on their own.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Anyway, I don't know why you guys are arguing the toss about cgi quality in Star Wars blah blah blah...; when everyone knows that Weta Digital > ILM.

WETA is waaay better than ILM, but oddly enough Rango is the best looking animated film I've seen. If only ILM put that much work into everything.

You only think that because Rango has a zimmer score, is made by gore verbinsky, and has a lot of hommages to morricone and leone's films.

bias bias bias.

but in fact, It is the best animated film to date (quality of CGI wise) but because it is by ILM.

As much as the clone wars is the best animated cgi tv series ever created (quality of cgi wise). Even if you think it is a ball of crap uberly big.

You keep saying I'm biased. All the reasons you listed is why Rango is my favorite animated film. Have you even seen it, or any portions of it? The animation in itself is amazing. If I was biased I would say it sucks because it's by ILM.

[Luke Skywalker 1,810]

I've seen it and the quality of the CGI was astounding.

I'm saying that if the prequels had a zimmer score, were made by gore verbinsky, and had a lot of hommages to morricone and leone's films, you would love ILM's work on them too.

[Demondm810 399]

Transformers is the best work ILM has done in recent memory.

[Sandor 799]

Yeah, and Davey Jones is something that Weta can't equal either.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bah, what a childish discussion!

"My daddy is stronger then your daddy!"

[Luke Skywalker 1,810]

But it's fun...

Transformers is the best work ILM has done in recent memory.

rango as a full cgi film featured astounding landscapes, they looked as if they were filmed on location.

and amazing water, fire, sand, dust-smoke.

and many many other great things, like lizzard skin,

[Datameister 2,096]

Yeah, and Davey Jones is something that Weta can't equal either.

Indeed. In my mind, he's still the most convincing CG organism yet. Transformers is also very impressive from a VFX standpoint.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

rango as a full cgi film featured astounding landscapes, they looked as if they were filmed on location.

Which is stupid!

Pixar always takes care to not make their CGI locations too realistic! It's supposed to be animation.

[Datameister 2,096]

Some elements of Pixar films are more or less photorealistic. The ocean surface in The Incredibles and Finding Nemo is practically indistinguishable from reality, and it works very well.

[Luke Skywalker 1,810]

yep, its the character-set design what looks cartooney, but they are comprised of realistic materials.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Some elements of Pixar films are more or less photorealistic. The ocean surface in The Incredibles and Finding Nemo is practically indistinguishable from reality, and it works very well.

But they took care to make certain aspects not TOO realistic.

[Faleel 5,447]

Some elements of Pixar films are more or less photorealistic. The ocean surface in The Incredibles and Finding Nemo is practically indistinguishable from reality, and it works very well.

But they took care to make certain aspects not TOO realistic.

or its/wasnt just not possible to make those aspects photorealistic

(I thought certain locations in Up looked realistic)

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm saying that if the prequels had a zimmer score, were made by gore verbinsky, and had a lot of hommages to morricone and leone's films, you would love ILM's work on them too.

What a preposterous accusation.

[Datameister 2,096]

Some elements of Pixar films are more or less photorealistic. The ocean surface in The Incredibles and Finding Nemo is practically indistinguishable from reality, and it works very well.

But they took care to make certain aspects not TOO realistic.

I dunno, maybe...I'm having a hard time imagining something in a CG film that looked too photorealistic, though. I mean, it'd be a problem if they tried to make something look photorealistic and failed, and I certainly don't have a problem with stylization, but I like it when there's something photorealistic about these sorts of films. Stylized photorealism, I guess.

I haven't seen Rango, though.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Rango is not your typical animated film. It's the most realistic I've seen, and has no qualms about having bats with gatling guns, showing death, smoking, and using mild language.

Your typical DreamWorks or Pixar will be aimed at kids with some stuff for the parents. Rango is aimed at the parents with some stuff for the kids.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

Yeah, and Davey Jones is something that Weta can't equal either.

I guess that was pretty cool, but I'm kinda biased towards it because it's this lame squid head character. He looks like a dude from the background of Jabba's barge. For my money, the best work ILM has done with CGI creatures or, well, robots, can be found in the films Jurassic Park and A.I. Ironically or not, both collaborations with Stan Winston special effects. Kubrick would have shit in his pants if he'd seen the Mechas.

[crocodile 8,066]

Guillermo Del Toro does a good job with monsters. Animatronics/suits enhanced with CGI are hard to beat.

Karol

[Datameister 2,096]

I like Davy Jones' design. Even if you don't, I'd recommend just taking a look at how believable the CG is. I mean, the first time I saw it, I was pretty sure there was a lot of CG going on, but I couldn't tell if some of it was prosthetics or makeup or puppetry. It's a very seamless blend of motion capture, animation, and physics simulation that's been expertly textured and lit and rendered and composited. Try to look past your distaste for the design...I think you'll find it's a really impressive technical achievement.

Jurassic Park definitely has some impressive VFX, especially for its time, but they still hold up pretty well today. They're not overambitious, and it helps that they used Stan Winston's practical effects when possible, like you said. IMO, a lot of CG-heavy films these days would greatly benefit from having the same budget and timeframe but a lot less ambition. If they focused on doing a better job on fewer effects shots, the results could be a real improvement.

EDIT: Ditto on Del Toro.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[Quintus 5,399]

Davy Jones was indeed a superb cg achievement.

However; King Kong > Davy Jones.

I also find RotK's Gollum to be just as impressive (seamless) as Jones.

[Datameister 2,096]

King Kong was very, very well done. I feel like Davy Jones has more of a "real" presence, though. And I definitely wouldn't put Gollum on the same level overall - there are isolated moments where he works that well, but on the whole, I'd put him a notch or two below Davy Jones. I've just...never really had that experience before (or since), where I'm honestly questioning to what degree this living, breathing character is a CG creation. Not every shot is totally perfect, but there's something very special about how he fits into these real sets with these real actors. (Unfortunately, his crew is not quite on the same level, but they're pretty excellent, too, if occasionally over-acted.)

[Quintus 5,399]

I agree that Jones was very effective and blended in wonderfully well. However, one must remember he had relatively little screen time compared to Gollum and Kong. At ILM the artists' talents weren't stretched as thinly with Jones as were Weta with their projects. I reckon that makes a difference in terms of 'finish'.

Which is what blows me away when I think of Gollum and Kong - two characters who had a very late reworking in both productions - still managed to be brilliantly convincing.

Which is were it all comes back to performance...

[publicist 4,643]

I've seen the OT movies exactly once in undubbed widescreen, and that was when the SEs were released theatrically in '97. Since then, I've seen each of the three once (dubbed) on TV.

The professionel german dubbing actors transform Hamill, Ford and Fisher into better actors, that's for sure.

[A24 4,369]

I'm so glad that I'm not a German. (great T-shirt line) 'Dubbing' is the reason why I never watched German television.

[MissPadmé 17]

I'm so glad that I'm not a German. (great T-shirt line) 'Dubbing' is the reason why I never watched German television.

I have said it before and I'll say it again - the german dubbbed Star Wars (especially VADER!!!!) is better than the original.

The german Voice Heinz Petrou, has this cold and harshness Vader needs I think... but well I grew up with this Version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-TvTDppbs

[A24 4,369]

'Better' if you wanna laugh, sure.

[MissPadmé 17]

'Better' if you wanna laugh, sure.

you are a mean, ignorant person, who has no taste! NO taste you hear me?!?!?!

but in gereal I agree with you - dubbing is for the most part a bad bad thingy (exc. Schwarzenegger!)

well if you wanna laugh..

[Datameister 2,096]

I'm all too aware of how powerfully we can get attached to the first version (of anything) that we're exposed to...but yeah, the original is waaaaay better, sorry. (Although the only thing truly horrendous about the dubbed video is that PAL speedup of the music.)

[A24 4,369]

well if you wanna laugh..

And you call me mean!

[Sandor 799]

I agree that Jones was very effective and blended in wonderfully well. However, one must remember he had relatively little screen time compared to Gollum and Kong.

Haha, you're just looking for a justification to reject the fact that Davy Jones > King Kong and Gollum.

[Quintus 5,399]

If you say so, fanboy