GAME OF THRONES

[Jay 37,364]

I think that is exactly the case.  I think Rhaegar and Lyanna named him Aerys Targaryen, or something like that, and Ned took him and pretended he banged a maiden during the war and had a son named Jon, naming him after his friend Jon Arryn.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ned was meticulous. Even to the point that he never told Catelyn the truth. Because then she would accept the child and raise it as one of her own and love him as one of her own. While now she merely tolerated Jon, but despised the fact that he existed.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

She told Ned the name of the baby, which seems by be something like Aerys or Jaehaerys or something like that.

 

To me it sounds more like "Aegon" than anything else. I can't remember if Rhaegar's other son has actually been named in the show (usually he and and sister are just referred to as the "children"). If not, I wonder whether the writers decided to reserve that name for Jon, so that he shares a name with the original conqueror. Probably not, but it's a possibility.

 

Another possibility is "Aemon", though it didn't look as though there was an "m" in there when she said it. In the books, it's noted that when Jon and Robb used to play as children, Jon would play the role of the legendary Targaryan kingsguard Aemon the Dragonknight; a lot of people think this is a clue that Aemon was Jon's real name at birth. 

[Jay 37,364]

I don't know if the show has specifically stated it or not, but Rhaegar is supposed to already have a son named Aegon.  His children through Elia Martel are supposed to be Rhaenys Targaryen (daughter) and Aegon Targaryen (son) - those are the ones Gregor Clegane killed.  I don't think Rhaegar would re-use Aegon for his child through Lyanna, and I don't think that whatever name GRRM has in mind for Jon's real name would be changed for the show.  But who knows.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I don't know if the show has specifically stated it or not, but Rhaegar is supposed to already have a son named Aegon.

 

Yeah; that's exactly what I was talking about.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For all we know Jon stays dead in the books!

[Jay 37,364]

11 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Ned was meticulous. Even to the point that he never told Catelyn the truth. Because then she would accept the child and raise it as one of her own and love him as one of her own. While now she merely tolerated Jon, but despised the fact that he existed.

 

Exactly.  if Robert observed Catelyn treating Jon OK, he might get suspicious about the child's real origin and perhaps put 2 and 2 together.  So Ned endured 17 years of shame from his wife to protect him.  Honorable guy!

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

To protect her as well. Concealing Jon's parentage from the king was an act of treason.

[Jay 37,364]

Good point!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Speculations on who else will die in the series?

I think the remaining Stark children are save, as is Tyrion.

 

Cersei will surely buy it, possibly Jaime too. (I predict Jaime will kill Cersei)

Dany could die, since the end game now seems to be to have Jon on the Iron Throne. She could have a very heroic death fighting the Walkers.

Samwell will be fine, Gilly too I reckon. Brienne might die but not Pod.

Ser Davos....not sure. Melisandre will die. The Hound will live and hopefully see Arya kill The Mountain, or they do it together.

 

Btw, with the time they have remaining, will they actually attempt to make the White Walkers into anything more then just winter zombies? Like giving them characters, any sort of motivation?

[Quintus 5,399]

Actually, I'm going to really need the writers to expand on the Children of the Forest and their logical thinking behind making a powerful new magical species - chiefly the reason for the massive oversight behind that. Because I'm not satisfied with it as it is, with what we have on that instrumental incident and subject so far. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm guessing they figured they could control them, like Skynet!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

 

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Just using what has been in the show itself, Jon's parentage is implied but not explicit. I'm not saying they'll pull a quick one and someone else will be the father, but clearly they made the part of Lyanna's dialogue where she tells Ned the father inaudible for a reason. Not every viewer will have connected all the dots.

 

When the show wants to make something very explicit for the viewer, they ain't usually subtle.

 

^This.

 

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I mean, Benioff/Weiss aren't writing this series like every viewer frequents message boards and Reddit trawling for Game of Thrones theories. The bombshell here isn't that Rhaegar is Jon's father, but that Jon's father isn't Ned. 

 

^ But mostly this.

 

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Stefan.  Why would Rheagar's Kingsguard's be posted outside the Tower of Joy if Lyanna was not pregnant from Rhaegar?  What do you think, the Mad King raped her?

 

Was it explicitly stated the Kingsguard belonged to Rheagar? I genuinely don't recall if they did or not.

[Jay 37,364]

I looked it up - only the actual King of Westeros has a Kingsguard, so they're technically The Mad King's... except at that point, they knew Aerys was dead, so they would in fact by default by Prince Rhaegar's.  

Regardless of that, the backstory (admittedly from the books and not explicitly stated on the show) is that Prince Rhaegar commanded them to guard Lyanna there.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

...except at that point, they knew Aerys was dead, so they would in fact by default by Prince Rhaegar's.

 

They knew that Rhaegar was dead too, though, and that he died before Aerys. (Not that I'm disputing that they were at the Tower at Rhaegar's behest.)

[Jay 37,364]

Yup, you're right!

 

They were, essentially, protecting who they considered to be the next right-born king (and his mother).

[Jay 37,364]

HBO confirms Rhaegar is Jon's father (and his first kids were Aegon and Rhaenys)

 

[Red 75]

It's kind of weird that they didn't make the whispering in that scene more legible, because it completely confirms the theory anyway. 

[Matt C 454]

I love how the writers changed it for Arya to off Walder Frey. I found that immensely satisfying.

 

That scene alone helped ease the pain from "Rains of Castamere."

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Sure, but it didn't make much sense. So Arya disguised herself and was recruited as a worker at Frey's castle, and somehow managed to kill everyone in sight, and what's more, even cook them for Walder to eat.

 

Again, it's a cool scene, but it's quite contrived.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

3 hours ago, Red said:

It's kind of weird that they didn't make the whispering in that scene more legible, because it completely confirms the theory anyway. 

 

Probably because the point of that scene wasn't that Rhaegar was Jon's father, but that Ned wasn't, undermining his rise to be King of the North in the next scene. They're purposely holding back on making the Rhaegar reveal explicit, but I guess the cat's out of the bag now anyway...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

HBO confirms Rhaegar is Jon's father (and his first kids were Aegon and Rhaenys)

 

 

Well this makes everything much clearer.....

[crocodile 8,012]

19 hours ago, Stefancos said:

For all we know Jon stays dead in the books!

Actually he might not even die from those wounds in the books. I suspect the TV showrunners did it solely to make up for Lady Stoneheart's absence (just as a nod). And for the shock factor. And to create a plot twist. After all Melisandre isn't even around at this point.

 

Myrcella is still alive in the books, isn't she? Just scarred or something.

 

Karol

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

6 minutes ago, crocodile said:

After all Melisandre isn't even around at this point.

 

Not at the scene of the attack, but she was at Castle Black up until that point.

 

8 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Myrcella is still alive in the books, isn't she? Just scarres or something.

 

Very true.

[Jay 37,364]

Jojen Reed, Barristan Selmy, Mance Raydar, Shireen Baratheon, Hizdahr zo Loraq, Selyse Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Myrcella Baratheon, Doran Martell, Trystane Martell, Roose Bolton, Walda Bolton, Shaggydog, Alliser Thorne, Summer, Three Eyed Raven, Leaf, Hodor, The Waif, Rickon Stark, Smalljon Umber, Ramsay Bolton, Grand Maester Pycelle, Lancel Lannister, The High Sparrow, Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Tommen Baratheon, Black Walder, Lothar Frey, Walder Frey, and many others are all still alive in the books.

 

 Aemon Targaryen, the Lord of Bones, Balon Greyjoy, and Kevan Lannister are dead, though.

[crocodile 8,012]

I think I'm going to actually finish reading those. Got to the end of A Clash of Kings.

 

Karol

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

...are all still alive in the books.

 

Or, at least, not confirmed to be dead. The situations of a few of those are rather uncertain, including Stannis (whose death has been alleged in a letter to Jon, but is quite likely to be still alive) and Jojen Reed (who is very likely to have been eaten by an unwitting Bran). 

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

The Season 7 directors have been announced:

 

Alan Taylor, Jeremy Podeswa, Mark Mylod and Matt Shakman.

 

Crap...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why is that bad?

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

No problem with any of those (except that I don't know much about Shakman). What's crap is that Miguel Sapochnik isn't among them.

[Jay 37,364]

Maybe Miguel Sapochnik simply hasn't been announced yet.  The article doesn't specifically say that those 4 will be the ONLY directors next year.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

It's strongly implied that this is a full list, and explicitly stated that Sapochnik will be sitting out Season 7 (along with David Nutter, which is fine by me!).

[Jay 37,364]

Maybe Sapochnik got a feature film gig and isn't free to direct anything Season 7.  Maybe he'll return for Season 8.

 

Or maybe Netflix pays better than HBO (he's directing at least one episode of Iron Fist)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This is a TV show. The directors aren't that important.

[Jay 37,364]

Game of Thrones season 6 finale is most-watched episode yet

 

Duh.

[Glóin the Dark 1,221]

10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

This is a TV show. The directors aren't that important.

 

I don't agree. There are discernible directorial traits in all of the celebrated set-pieces of Game of Thrones which Sapochnik directed (the massacre at Hardhome, the Battle of the Bastards, the Battle of Meereen, the Light of the Seven) as well as the less flashy scenes in his episodes, and also in the hallucinatory party scene in last year's True Detective. I don't think it's right to assume that the merits of these scenes were just down to the writing and that they would have been as successful under any other director. Compare the clarity, fluidity and panache with which these set-pieces were presented with the clumsy, haphazard depiction of the massacre at Daznak's Pit from last year, for instance.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Meh....

 

Alan Taylor directed for GoT, Mad Men, Deadwood etc....

Impressive right?

 

His last 2 motion pictures are Thor 2 and Terminator Genisys.

 

Nuff said.

 

 

[Jay 37,364]

Totally agree with Gloin.  Miguel Sapochnik is a good director who makes GOT better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm not saying having skilled director doesnt help. But TV isn't really a directors medium.

[Jay 37,364]

And that is not the issue here at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We have a whole year to fill!

[Quintus 5,399]

So there's absolutely no hype or expectation whatsoever then about the new Star Wars spin-off as directed by the much lauded Breaking Bad guy. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not for me.

 

Breaking Bad = Vince Gilligan!

[Jay 37,364]

4 minutes ago, Lonnegan said:

So there's absolutely no hype or expectation whatsoever then about the new Star Wars spin-off as directed by the much lauded Breaking Bad guy. 

Rian Johnson is directing Episode 8, not a spinoff.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 

If Vince was doing Ep 8 I would be having a permanent erection for two years anticipating it.

[KK 3,307]

Finally got to see this episode, after trying to avoid as much of the buzz as I could.

 

My God, that truly was one of the best executed episodes Game of Thrones has produced, and definitely the show's best season finale. It's funny, because I ultimately was not surprised by any of the events that took place. They were more or less expected. But the craft and intelligence with which it was executed makes it a real winner. I was rather unsure of how they were going to put all those storylines together and move it quickly in the direction of the show's end, but it was done very well. All the storylines, more or less, flowed well with each other, which is usually one of the show's primary weaknesses.

 

13 episodes left! Curious to see how they'll pull it off.

[Jay 37,364]

How could Tommen randomly jumping out the window not be a surprise to anyone who didn't read spoilers?

[KK 3,307]

Fair enough, I did not expect that one. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wouldn't say its one of the best episodes. I recall the early seasons being far more subtle in both its political machinations and character development.

 

The show is painted in far more broader strokes now. The subtle plotting and prose is al but completely dissapeared and instead we have something thats more or less straight fantasy. With easy to understand and digest characterisations and plots. Still riveting much of the time, but not that far removef from shows like Spartacus: Blood and Sand but with a bigger budget.

 

I'll happily keep watching, but anyone who thinkd this season is the best yet is a serious moron!

[Quintus 5,399]

21 minutes ago, Jay said:

How could Tommen randomly jumping out the window not be a surprise to anyone who didn't read spoilers?

 

After staring into space through that window for an extended period of time without really thinking about anything I suddenly became aware that the frame hadn't yet reallocated in a manner one would normally expect - which is precisely when it dawned on me what was literally right about to happen. And in an instant the chap walked into shot and off he went.