GAME OF THRONES

[Quintus 5,399]

If only we'd left the EU sooner Ned need not have died! 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I... actually agree with much of this. It doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the characters and story but yeah, they're all pretty terrible people.

 

There are no heroes on this show, only competing garbage fires.

[Jay 37,374]

That has always been GRRM's point - to always feature characters that are in the grey between good and bad, rather than a bunch of good characters and a bunch of bad characters.

 

You could argue the only truly good character was Ned, who only lasted 9 episodes, and then Joffrey and Ramsay are basically all-bad.  Everyone else is somewhere in between....

 

I suppose when you think about it, its still fairly easy to root for Jon, Sansa, Arya, Brienne, Bran, and maybe Tyrion / Dany / Yara

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'm honestly not rooting for any of the main characters.  Maybe Arya because revenge is fun.  I kind of want them ALL to die in a war with the white walkers and at the end we have the beginnings of a democratic republic with all the aristocratic houses brought down.  Maybe even a hint of a scientific revolution finally happening?

[Jay 37,374]

Jon - was easy to root for through 5 seasons, but kinda turned into a dick (and didn't listen to Sansa when he should have!) in Season 6

 

Sansa - She was so shit-upon for 5 seasons it was nice to finally see her take charge of her own destiny, but if taking pleasure if Ramsay's death is a sign of an oncoming Dark Sansa arc then I dunno....

 

Arya - Yea, revenge is fun!  Murder those people who murdered your loved ones!  Baffled by the poor way the end of her Faceless Man training was handled this season, though!

 

Bran - For a while it was easy to root for him to get to the source of his dreams, you figured it would lead to really cool stuff.  So far all that's turned out to be was 2-3 relatively short flashbacks and that he was the cause of Hodor being Hodor so yea, I dunno... he could end up causing more harm than good before all is said and done!

 

Brienne - Honestly her character isn't really fleshed out enough to know what to want her to do.  I guess we wanted Jaime to rescue her back in the day, but that was ages ago and she hasn't done much since besides kill Stannis, a character she wasn't even really connected too much anyway.  I liked her as guardian of Sansa, but she was shuffled off on a dumb mission as soon as that began...

 

Tyrion - Hasn't been the same guy since leaving Westeros.  He needs to have a big moment soon

 

Dany - Everything gets handed to her so easily, the cyclical nature of her storylines is getting super old.  Hopefully her setting sail for Westeros will seriously mix things up

 

Yara & Theon - I can't see Yara actually becoming Queen of the Iron Islands nor co-Queen of Westeros with Dany or anything.  She's kind of not fleshed out enough to root for her too much.  Theon I think isn't set up for anything but some kind of heroic sacrifice sometime next year

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm honestly not rooting for any of the main characters.  Maybe Arya because revenge is fun.  I kind of want them ALL to die in a war with the white walkers and at the end we have the beginnings of a democratic republic with all the aristocratic houses brought down.  Maybe even a hint of a scientific revolution finally happening?

 

To answer your question from another thread,

 

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I guess I'm just not sure what your dreaded worst-case scenario actually looks like, any examples of diversity done "the wrong way"?

 

the scenario you've posted here. 

 

Not that the issue here is heavy-handed diversity, but rather an utterly unpalatable, in the context of this story, utopian wet dream.

[Jay 37,374]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Brexit would threaten Game of Thrones

Without an EU cash injection, its Northern Ireland base may not be so attractive

 

4 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

The Brexit process is to take two years after it is triggered (which hasn't happened yet), while Game of Thrones should be filming its final episodes next year (unless there's a major change to the normal schedule).

 

You're right!

 

Relax, everyone—Brexit’s only going to destabilize markets, not Game Of Thrones

[Jay 37,374]

Holy poop!  Watch this clip of Littlefinger talking to Cersei from last season (starts at 1:15).... specifically the part from 2:30-end

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

 

Basically, Petry makes a deal with Cersei that if he takes over Winterfell in the name of the crown and kills Sansa, she will make him warden of the North.

Could this have actually been his plan all along?  Will he use his Vale army to overcome what's left of the Stark/wildling army next week and try to become Warden of the North?

Or does he know that with Cersei about to stand trial now, she'll have no power soon?

Hmmm.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm honestly not rooting for any of the main characters.  Maybe Arya because revenge is fun.  I kind of want them ALL to die in a war with the white walkers and at the end we have the beginnings of a democratic republic with all the aristocratic houses brought down.  Maybe even a hint of a scientific revolution finally happening?

 

I've been thinking about the republic idea myself. It does seem off topic for a "fantasy" novel, but it certainly would be a logical conclusion to many of the storylines.

 

As for the characters, I'm still very fond of Arya (and I don't think her Many-Faced God storyline has been handled poorly; she's been trained as an assassin and figured out that personal revenge is different from being a hired assassin). And I believe pretty much all of Tyrion's flaws are personal in nature and can be forgiven - even more so considering his family background.

[Jay 37,374]

I love that Arya went away and got trained, then had to kill one of her own when she decided she wouldn't kill for hire only personal revenge, and got the approval of the leader to go do so...... but the way this was presented episode to episode, especially the in-the-end-random part when she was blind for a bit, kinda fell short for me.  Like I get that her being blind is how she beat the Waif, but the parts where she not only survived being stabbed in the gut by a professional assassin but was jumping and running afterwards, etc just wasn't up to par for me.

 

The thing with Arya is: When she's checked everyone off her list, then what will she do?  I could see her always adding to it perpetually.  Kinda like Memento.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

6 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

To answer your question from another thread,

 

 

the scenario you've posted here. 

 

Not that the issue here is heavy-handed diversity, but rather an utterly unpalatable, in the context of this story, utopian wet dream.

 

I think I'm maybe presenting it as more utopian wish-fulfillment than I would want it actually told on the show. I would want the aristocracy to be severely wounded (physically and metaphorically) and maybe the equivalent of a Westerosian Magna Carta.  The beginnings of change toward representative government where the people would have a say in their own governance

[oierem 152]

On 23/6/2016 at 10:17 PM, Jay said:

I actually look forward to reading the books after the show.  I assume Book 6 will come out shortly after (or during) Season 7, if its not ready before then.  Then by the time I actually start and eventually finish Books 1-6, Book 7 will be right around the corner, hopefully?  Depends on how much he drags his feet.  Maybe the show ending will cause him to write faster... or maybe slower!

 

I'm almost 100% sure that the book series will never be finished, sadly. It's literally impossible to finish all the storylines that Martin has started in just two more books.

[Bilbo 3,709]

http://m.9gag.com/gag/a84YYdZ

[Quintus 5,399]

I remember getting to the remaining 20 minutes of the final episode of Breaking Bad and thinking it was surely nowhere near long enough to wrap it all up, but it was. Two books worth is more than enough for a good writer. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

Two books worth is more than enough for a good writer. 

 

And there's your problem. 

[oierem 152]

2 hours ago, Lonnegan said:

I remember getting to the remaining 20 minutes of the final episode of Breaking Bad and thinking it was surely nowhere near long enough to wrap it all up, but it was. Two books worth is more than enough for a good writer. 

 

I'm sorry but no. We know enough about Martin's plans for the future books to say that. He's still somewhere in the middle of his second book (when this was a trilogy). Or he's still somewhere in the middle of his fourth book (when this was a six-book series). In any case, he's still far away from where he wants to arrive. And with each delay, more subplots are added. Subplots that the TV series has wisely cut, condensed or merged.

Oh, and Martin has already released about 1/7 of Winds of Winter in sample chapters. And considering the pace the narrative is moving.... let's just say that he's still writing stuff that was meant to be part of the previous book's climax.

[Bilbo 3,709]

It's going to take at least 3 books to finish. At his current rate that's about 14 years from now?

 

 

will anyone still care?

[Wojo 2,453]

Some may. I have a friend who read all the books before watching the show, so he's now upset the show is passing the books. He's boycotting the show until he can read the finished book series. 

 

14 years will prove to be a challenging wait. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There's no way I'm going near those books until Martin finished them.

[Wojo 2,453]

I bought the then complete set two or three years ago but I've still not read past Ned's arrest. Haven't had time. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

45 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

There's no way I'm going near those books until Martin finished them.

 

Why not?

[Quintus 5,399]

I read the first book, it was pretty good. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Why not?

 

Because ive experienced the anguish and fear of others that Martin might never finish. Why would i do that to myself?

52 minutes ago, Lonnegan said:

I read the first book, it was pretty good. 

 

Arent the first 3 great, the latter 2 meandering shite?

[Jay 37,374]

That's seems to be the general consensus, yeah.

 

To put it in perspective, they followed the original three books closely and made seasons 1-4 of the show out of them, then took everything from books 4-5 (and probably most all of 6) and changed around everything in them to make seasons 5 & 6. The three original good books made four seasons and the next meandering three books made only too.

 

Apparently he slowed way down on plot advancement and ramped up the internal monologues, scenery and food and clothing descriptions, and other descriptive elements. People say everything that happened in books 4&5 could have been one book thebdame length as the old ones of he wrote in the same style now he did in the 90s.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Because ive experienced the anguish and fear of others that Martin might never finish. Why would i do that to myself?

 

Arent the first 3 great, the latter 2 meandering shite?

 

So if he dies and never finishes, does them make not worth reading? Have you read Tolkien's Unfinished Tales?

 

The first books already had tons of food, clothing and banner descriptions. The fourth book does drag, a lot, but the fifth picks up again. And for me, part of the reason for dragging is that I kept losing track of who is who, compared to the earlier books (supported by the TV series).

[Jay 37,374]

Well, that was awesome.

 

Clearly the best season finale yet, loads better than last year's.

 

Stark sigil back on Winterfell in opening credits

 

Putting Maisie WIlliams' name in the opening credits ruined one surprise.

 

Didn't understand why the little birds stabbed Pycelle repeatedly but Lancel only once.

 

Funny how we tried to figured out who'd be king if Tommen died but didn't think what if Margaery died too.

 

I hope the Iron Bank of Braavos comes for their money next season.

 

Bran seeing a tree and realizing he had to go have a vision was odd, since the vision was so short and we didn't see him again after. Why couldn't we have seen the extra 2 minutes of Tower of Joy when we saw the first part? The reveal doesn't have any dramatic impact of no one else knows including Jon himself.

 

I wonder what Sam will learn at the library

 

I wonder if Melisandre will meet up with The Hound and the Brotherhood Without Banners

 

Dany/Daario and Dany/Tyrion were nice scenes. Impressive shots of her fleet... She has more ships than I realized.

 

So it's Dany, Tyrion, Greyjoys, Dorne, the Tyrells and dragons vs Cersei with only her brother's army who might not be happy he lost another son. Seems pretty one-sided!! I guess there's probably more Wildfire...

 

Remaining outside parties include The North (all houses plus Vale), Euron Greyjoy, Braavos bank, Arya, Brienne & Pod, Hound & Brotherhood, Melisandre, Castle Black, Sam & Golly, Bran & Meera, Benjen, White Walkers....

 

Bring on next season!

 

PS B & W didn't mention R+L=J in the featurette afterwards, I figured they'd say it was the thing they figured out to get the job.

 

EDIT: Just realized we've gone from The War of Five Kings to The War of Four. It was Joffrey vs Balon vs Robb vs Stannis vs Renly now it's Cersei vs Daenerys vs Euron vs Jon...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Holy shit on a stick, that was a well-done episode on every front. 

[Jay 37,374]

Next season?

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was a truly outstanding finale.

 

First of all the scoring for the early Kings Landing stuff was really impressive. Gentle piano slowly augmented by strings. Probably the best sustained musical sequence in the entire series so far. Since I usually slag of Ramin's work as being substandard I also have to mention when he really does enhance the scene.

 

The wildfire plot was foreshadowed of course, but it wasnt lacking in dramatic power. Cersie does her Michael Corleone thing and becomes, for the time being the most powerful woman in Westeros. But even Jaime will hesitate to follow her now I think.

 

The Northern scenes were strong too. The juxtaposition between the Tower Of Joy flashback and the Northern Lords rallying behind Jon, son of Ned was well done.

 

In the end it is Jon, not Dany who should sit on the Iron Throne. R+L=J means that he has the blood of the North and South running through his veins.

 

Finally Dany has left Mereen. Her scene with Daario was very good and the one with Tyrion excellent. Funny. I never noticed just how small Clarke was till I saw her standing next to the Imp.

 

So Arya DID learn the face changing trick! Meaning there was some point to her travels to Braavos after all. Her finishing of Walder Frey is very satisfying.

 

Did we have just about every story line in this ep apart from Brienne, and The Hound?

 

Also loved the scene where Ser Davos confronts the Red Woman, and Jon has no choice but to let her go. Where will she go too? back to the Brotherhood? Kings Landing? I doubt after her encounter with the Sparrows Cersie will have much patience with another religion.

 

I guess we will get more of Dorne. It was a bit confusing seeing Varys there and later standing next to Dany. Is he playing his own game, or will Dorne and the Tyrells fight alongside Dany for the Iron Throne?

 

Winter has come, but next season it will still not be the one where the Nigh King and his army start their assault. The War of the Kings is still waging.

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Bran seeing a tree and realizing he had to go have a vision was odd, since the vision was so short and we didn't see him again after. Why couldn't we have seen the extra 2 minutes of Tower of Joy when we saw the first part? The reveal doesn't have any dramatic impact of no one else knows including Jon himself.

 

Are you kidding? It definitely had dramatic impact. It was done for the sake of the audience knowing, rather then another character.

We now see Jon as something else then just a bastard son. (Perhaps for you it didnt have much impact because you knew about the theory for a long time, but for many this will be a revelation)

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Putting Maisie WIlliams' name in the opening credits ruined one surprise.

 

Thats why I averted my eyes for the credits.

3 hours ago, Jay said:

So it's Dany, Tyrion, Greyjoys, Dorne, the Tyrells and dragons vs Cersei with only her brother's army who might not be happy he lost another son. Seems pretty one-sided!! I guess there's probably more Wildfire...

 

It's Dany, Tyrion, Greyjoys, Dorne, the Tyrells and dragons plus the Starks and all the houses allied to them.

 

Petyr seems more dangerous then any of then, however.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Funny how we tried to figured out who'd be king if Tommen died but didn't think what if Margaery died too.

 

As it stands now, Jon Snow has the most right to the throne. More then Dany.

Rhaegar was Daenerys's older brother afterall and Jon is a male heir.

Assuming Rheagar and Lyanna were married in secret that is.

[crocodile 8,020]

That was a pretty cool finale. They covered a LOT of ground here.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, meaning the first 6 episodes of the next season will move as slow as treacle

[crocodile 8,020]

How many characters were killed in this episode?

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Loads! Cersei probably holds the record for most confirmed kills of characters.

[crocodile 8,020]

Well, one thing that really started to bother me is how fast people travel now. Is there like an ancient Valyrian underground network working?

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wormhole!

[MedigoScan 324]

deleted time transition shots!

[Quintus 5,399]

We're gonna need transitioning aerial vista shots next season for that stuff, with Williams drafted in for the spacey fanfares on a bed of strings as we settle into the latest locale. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Ramin Djawadi knocked it out of the park. Easily his most showcased episode. He was basically at the forefront of every scene, instead of quiet underscore. His best work yet for the series. I thought they had pencilled in some classical music for that opening scenes of the trial, it was almost too good for Djawadi, and I'm a huge fan of his GOT work as well. He really impressed me. 

 

Also, how the hell did Varys get from Dorne (where he met with Lady Tyrell) then back to Essos in order to board the ships and then go back over the narrow sea with Dany and her band? He must fly 'Air Eunuch.'

[Quintus 5,399]

Meh, it's only taken Djawadi 6 seasons to get there. 

 

Really solid finale, but I wish the next season was the last. The King of the North scene was a bit deja vu, no? 

 

This also apparently confirms that Catelyn definitely won't be back. Probably for the best, in this tv version. 

[Jay 37,374]

I'm actually still surprised that they killed of Margaery; When she was the only character that figured out what was up, I thought for sure she'd escape the Sept of Baelor just quick enough to survive the explosion... so now, the Rose note she gave to Olenna was really just to ensure Olenna survived, not that Margaery had another trick up her sleeve to escape the Sparrows... or maybe she did, but didn't get to enact it before Cersei killed her.  We'll never know.

[crumbs 14,319]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm actually still surprised that they killed of Margaery; When she was the only character that figured out what was up, I thought for sure she'd escape the Sept of Baelor just quick enough to survive the explosion... so now, the Rose note she gave to Olenna was really just to ensure Olenna survived, not that Margaery had another trick up her sleeve to escape the Sparrows... or maybe she did, but didn't get to enact it before Cersei killed her.  We'll never know.

 

I was devo that Margaery was amongst the casualties. I think we all knew what was coming throughout the sequence (paired with some especially brilliant music, congrats to Djawadi -- knocked it out of the park), but as soon as Margaery caught on I figured she'd make it out while watching the rest of her family burn in the wildfire. Alas, her revenge will need to come from the Queen of Thorns instead (and that's not such a bad alternative!)

 

Still, amongst so many casualties I had little care for, Margaery's was the worst. I really enjoyed watching her and Cersei constantly trying to out-manipulate one another but, as we should all know by now, nobody crosses Cersei and lives to tell the tale. It was basically the massacre that had to happen to get the chess pieces in place for Dany's arrival at Westeros; nutters like the High Sparrow and Tommen running the show when Dany's dragons land in KL was never going to work -- it had to be a militant, insane Cersei with nothing to lose. You certainly long for the days of old Tywin Lannister; none of this would've unraveled with him in charge.

 

Next season has so many fascinating story threads, not the least of which is Jamie's reaction to his now-insane sister. Her actions proved directly responsible for their final child's death. Littlefinger continues to manipulate discontent between Sansa and Jon, who now has more claim to the throne than anyone. Melissandre will surely run into the Hound, BWB, and probably Arya, given they're in the same proximity and we know Arya has to meet TRW again. 

 

It's certainly nice to see them finally tying up so many loose ends. The end game is clearly in sight now and I can see how they'll wrap it all up with 15 final episodes. I never thought they'd close off so many plot threads in one finale, but that's a credit to the writers. Well done on a pretty great season.

 

Oh, and...

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart? Yeah, she's most definitely, completely omitted. I concede, it's finished.

 

[Jay 37,374]

Since they put the Stark wolf back in the opening credits this week in the Winterfell segment, I wonder if they'll remove the Sept of Baelor from the King's Landing segment starting next season

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What allies does Cersei have now?

The Frey house will be in chaos. Maybe Euron and his 1000 ships?

[Jay 37,374]

When Euron left, he wanted to align with Daenerys.  

 

I think the only army Cersei has now is the Lannister one run by Jaime.  The Tyrell army is gone, the Freys couldn't even hold a castle without the crown's help, Dorne is aligned with Dany, the North wants to be independent... she can't even buy a sellsword army because they owe so much money to the Iron Bank of Braavos.  Maybe if she drains all the resources at Casterly Rock?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yara and Theon beat him to it, so its more likely he will try to get the Iron Throne though its current queen.

[Incanus 5,716]

Well that was a nice episode and season finale.

 

Oh who am I kidding. It was AWESOME!

[crumbs 14,319]

I'm so glad Frey pies made it in! That was such a deliciously evil ending for Walder, even if I wish it had been by the noose with Stoneheart watching on silently.

 

Still, Arya is my favourite character now. Love it!

[Incanus 5,716]

And Cersei doesn't have much time to enjoy her reign unless she somehow conjures up a huge army out of nowhere. Considering how deeply bled Westeros is at this point, there won't be many allies for the Lannisters.

 

But before long the appearance of the Night King will rearrange the priorities of these fighting factions.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So when will Dany land? Will she sail straight to Westeros, or pass by Dorne first?