GAME OF THRONES

[Wojo 2,453]

Tyrion's shaping up to be a secret Targaryen. 

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

^^^^
This is exactly what should have been done with him, given the setup. 

 

I don't normally entertain this sort of thing, but I just watched the whole video. One doesn't have to agree with all of his changes or any of them at all for that matter, but his ideas are still vastly improved over what we got, and I do actually think it's a shame the episode didn't play out in the way he describes, almost word for word (... I'd still have the dead army march on King's Landing, in my preferred outcome).

[Holko 9,531]

Benioff cowrote X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

 

Everything makes more sense now.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Game of Thrones George RR Martin is 'SAD' about how show ends: 'I would prefer THIS'

[crumbs 14,319]

15 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Game of Thrones George RR Martin is 'SAD' about how show ends: 'I would prefer THIS'

 

Well there's only one person to blame there!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Who?

[crumbs 14,319]

It's pretty obvious.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If you mean Martin, i wouldn't blame him for the show he hasn't really been involved in for several years.

 

 

[crumbs 14,319]

My point is he has no right to complain about the direction the show's taken since running out of source material, when he's directly responsible for that situation.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

23 minutes ago, crumbs said:

My point is he has no right to complain about the direction the show's taken since running out of source material, when he's directly responsible for that situation.

 

Wow!

Isn't that kinda like blaming Lucas for the Disney SW films?

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

It's not Martin's fault in how the writers have handled the show since. I blame the nature of the business wanting to shit a season out every year or so. 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That would seem more reasonable, imo.

I wonder if Martin has more creative control in the Prequel series he's become involved in.

[Arpy 4,145]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

That would seem more reasonable, imo.

I wonder if Martin has more creative control in the Prequel series he's become involved in.

I would think so, with so much pressure riding on the series proper, I guess it would be more relaxing to make something that takes a step back. 

[Wojo 2,453]

Blame Martin for not being able to make his books keep up with the show. 

 

Blame the actors' contracts for making them so expensive that it's in HBO's interest to get it over with already. 

 

Blame Lucas for taking Disney's $4bn when it was offered and then mostly walking away. Blame God for not giving man more resolve to say no to said $4bn.

[crumbs 14,319]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Wow!

Isn't that kinda like blaming Lucas for the Disney SW films? 

 

No, it's nothing like that, I think you misinterpreted my point.

 

I'm just saying it's rich for GRRM to complain about the show's ending not being how he envisioned it, when he never finished the source material for the showrunners to follow faithfully. He's had years to map out the final two books, knowing the series would eventually catch up and have to start filling narrative holes without the books as their guide. He admits as much in that article:

 

Quote

He also admits this primarily due to the increasingly overdue final two books in the series: "Some of the deviation, of course, is because I’ve been so slow with these books. I really should’ve finished this thing four years ago — and if I had, maybe it would be telling a different story here."

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

GRRM started Game of Thrones in 1991. It’s completely his fault that the show ran out of source material to adapt. 

 

Its also his fault that the books turned to shite because he doesn’t plan in advance and makes it all up as he goes leaving him in a position where he’ll never be able to unravel the convoluted mess of his own story. 

6 hours ago, Holko said:

Benioff cowrote X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

 

Everything makes more sense now.

 

To be fair, he wrote the first draft and then it was heavily re-written by someone else.

 

but having Origins and Troy on your cv is certainly not a good look...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

16 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

GRRM started Game of Thrones in 1991. It’s completely his fault that the show ran out of source material to adapt. 

 

But is he responsible for the direction the writers went in? Especially considering he told them how he planned to end his story?

[Bilbo 3,709]

25 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

But is he responsible for the direction the writers went in? Especially considering he told them how he planned to end his story?

 

But the ending *is* going to be the same. The secondary characters is where the difference is going to be. I do think seasons 7 and 8 have been rushed but I think the correct decision would have been to make them two 10 episode seasons rather than 13 in total. I also think D&D should have ceded a bit more control (I think Cogman should have been more involved). 

 

In fairness to D&D though, some of their changes have been absolutely brilliant. Arya and Tywin in season 2 for example isn’t in the books and neither is Hardhome from season 5. The army of the dead is even less developed in the books. Dorne was fucking awful in the show but it’s still better than whatever it was he was trying to do in the books and jettisoning the awful fake Aegon and Lady Stoneheart plots were wise decisions.

 

Also, he approached HBO about making the series when there was still only 4 books. It’s not like they drove a dumpster truck of money up to his house to buy the rights. He wanted to see his books (still unfinished) adapted. This is a guy who wrote at the end of Feast for Crows in 2006 that the next book, a Dance With Dragons, would be along the following year. It was eventually released in 2011. He hoped Winds of Winter would be released a bit quicker but as of May 2018 there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it. I’ve been of the opinion since finishing the books released that it’s going to take him a minimum of 3 books to finish the series not the 2 he says it will. The best part of a dozen chapters for Winds have been released already and they do little to nothing to advance the plot and unravel the mess.

 

He can say he wished the series was different but at the end of the day D&D actually finished the series. Something Martin will never do.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The ending might be the same, but I cannot blame Martin for the way the show got to the ending. Simply because he's not responsible for writing that.

 

Lazy/inept plotting, general character athrophy, shock twists that have no purpose, are these things generally atributed to Martin? I believe not.

 

Blame the showrunners.

[Bilbo 3,709]

19 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The ending might be the same, but I cannot blame Martin for the way the show got to the ending. Simply because he's not responsible for writing that.

 

Lazy/inept plotting, general character athrophy, shock twists that have no purpose, are these things generally atributed to Martin? I believe not.

 

Blame the showrunners.

 

But when he himself doesn’t know how to get from A Dance With Dragons to the endgame with his own characters and stories I don’t think he can have too many complaints when someone else does it in a way that he doesn’t like. 

[Arpy 4,145]

It's just revealing to what extent the writers had an influence on the show before these last two seasons or whenever the source material cut off, defrocking them as competent filmmakers and nothing more. 

 

It's not about whether Martin likes it or not, it's the audience's receptivity that ultimately counts and that rests on the shoulders of the writers of the show. This was their chance to push certain ideas, to take the reins and make it their own. Instead it feels like they seriously underestimated the enormity of what had been built and are straining under the weight of seven seasons of plot threads and that means cutting back on elements that probably drew a lot of the audience in earlier in the hopes the ending will wrap everything up.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

I think it's a foregone conclusion that both Cersei and The Mountain will die within the final two episodes, the questions is whether Arya or Jamie will kill Cersei, and whether Arya or The Hound will kill The Mountain.

And will Jaime or the Hound dies as well, or survive to the end.

 

And of course will Daenerys or Jon die/survive.

 

I can't imagine Sansa or Arya or Bran or Sam will die.

 

No idea how this silly Bronn/crossbow plot will end up.

 

Varys seems like a goner too.

 

Tyrion, I have no idea.  My coworker is convinced he will end up ruling Westeros as king.

Yeah, I've been thinking about Tyrion as ruler too, but since that would involve Dany dying, I refuse to accept it. For now.

[Quintus 5,399]

Cosmopolitan magazine weighs in on season 8, with Twitter reactions!

 

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/a27371693/game-of-thrones-season-8-sucks/

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Yeah, I've been thinking about Tyrion as ruler too, but since that would involve Dany dying, I refuse to accept it. For now.

 

Would they really kill off a hot chick on tv?

[Bilbo 3,709]

Dany is a goner imo. She’s going mad queen and there’s no coming back from that. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Dany is a goner imo. She’s going mad queen and there’s no coming back from that. 

 

Jon will probably finish her off. Arya will murder Cersei and anyone else who's left. Hound will kill his brother.

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Jon will probably finish her off. Arya will murder Cersei and anyone else who's left. Hound will kill his brother.

Yes I think Jon will kill her and exile himself North of the Wall with the wildlings (this episode set it up).

 

I think Jaime will kill Cersei though. They’ll die together. 

 

Arya/Hound/Mountain are tied together. I think Arya might actually be the one to kill the Mountain and I can see the Mountain gravely wounding the Hound and needing Arya to mercy kill him (again, kinda set up in the recent episode). She won’t stay in Westeros though. She’ll go “west of Westeros” (as set up in season 6). 

 

Sansa will end up ruler of the North and/or Vale.

 

Varys is dead meat.

 

Don’t know what’s going to happen to Tyrion or Bran. 

 

There won’t be a king and there won’t be an Iron Throne IMO. There’ll be a ruling council. Westeros will have moved from beyond a feudal society at the end of the series. That’s the ultimate impact of all the turmoil started by Robert’s Rebellion. 

 

I hope Ser Davos makes it through! 

 

At least they’re my predictions anyway! 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I just hope the little bloke lives so they can call it Game of Gnomes.

[Bilbo 3,709]

He’s the Imp!

[bollemanneke 3,352]

30 minutes ago, The Original said:

 

Would they really kill off a hot chick on tv?

Well, since half of the cast is suddenly anti-Dany for reasons I STILL don't get...

[crumbs 14,319]

8 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Well, since half of the cast is suddenly anti-Dany for reasons I STILL don't get...

 

It's been pretty well spelled out in multiple scenes now. Not sure what's so hard to get?

[Arpy 4,145]

She's a megalomaniacal bitch, which is a shame because I was hoping the characters around her that she's come to call friends over the last few seasons would change her heart for the better. Unfortunately it comes down to wanting to sit on a fucking throne. 

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I read an entire recap of her storyline yesterday evening. Her only misstep was killing a sympathetic slave master and Tarly's family. What did everyone in the show expect, that she'd take the Iron Throne accompanied by cheerleaders and majorettes while Cersei took a bow and danced away? There's got to be some sort of sacrifice.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I read an entire recap of her storyline yesterday evening. Her only misstep was killing a sympathetic slave master and Tarly's family. What did everyone in the show expect, that she'd take the Iron Throne accompanied by cheerleaders and majorettes while Cersei took a bow and danced away? There's got to be some sort of sacrifice.

 

For many seasons Dany has been pretty much portrayed as a hero. Or more than that, she's the show's Messiah, who broke free from the slavery imposed upon her and became a symbol of a struggle against oppression. We have seen her kill people who have wronged her or wronged people she was fighting for, we have seen her establishing herself in Mereen trying to be a just Ruler rather than a tyrant king like her father. 

 

That kinda went away once she landed in Westeros and started imposing her will on a population of who she believed she's the rightful heir. And now, pretty much in the space of one episode they made her paranoid and vengeful.

 

If it turns out that after 8 seasons all she is is the next Joffrey, or Ramsey, wouldnt that be a bit of a let down?

[Bilbo 3,709]

She’s been burning people alive since day one though. Even if they weren’t good people being burnt alive is a horrible way to go and one of her father’s (the Mad King) favourite past times. She’s not giving her enemies a quick execution like be-heading or hanging. 

 

Theon excutes Ser Rodrick, Robb executed Karstark, and Jon executed Slynt and every one of those characters ending up paying for it. 

 

Theon got Reeked, Robb murdered at the Res Wedding, and Jon by his own men.

 

So people carrying out the death penalty always seem to pay for it later. Even Ned and of course Stannis. 

 

Stannis too burns people alive. 

 

Dany has lost two dragons, Ser Jorah, and now Me-sundae in a short space of time. She’s unhinged and if next episode she burns innocent civilians in retaliation she’s going to deserve what’s coming her way 

[Jay 37,373]

I just realized why GOT is so disappointing to me now. 

 

I watch plenty of "turn my brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, and that's perfectly fine. I watch plenty of "pay attention and you'll get more out of it" finely crafted television and that is ultimately more satisfying, but also more disappointing when they screw something up. 

 

Game of Thrones now in its later seasons is really no better than average "turn your brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, but because those early seasons were so rewarding if you paid more attention and got more invested, it brings the disappointment with it, big time. 

 

Let's just hope the spectacle in the final 2 eps is good at least... 

[bollemanneke 3,352]

41 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

For many seasons Dany has been pretty much portrayed as a hero. Or more than that, she's the show's Messiah, who broke free from the slavery imposed upon her and became a symbol of a struggle against oppression. We have seen her kill people who have wronged her or wronged people she was fighting for, we have seen her establishing herself in Mereen trying to be a just Ruler rather than a tyrant king like her father. 

 

That kinda went away once she landed in Westeros and started imposing her will on a population of who she believed she's the rightful heir. And now, pretty much in the space of one episode they made her paranoid and vengeful.

 

If it turns out that after 8 seasons all she is is the next Joffrey, or Ramsey, wouldnt that be a bit of a let down?

But how is she unhinged and paranoid? Tyrion did have a point there, if you don't impose your will, you don't really rule. She has to be seen as a powerful person capable of holding the world together.

[Chen G. 3,950]

47 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

For many seasons Dany has been pretty much portrayed as a hero. Or more than that, she's the show's Messiah[...]That kinda went away once she landed in Westeros and started imposing her will on a population of who she believed she's the rightful heir.[...]If it turns out that after 8 seasons all she is is the next Joffrey, or Ramsey, wouldnt that be a bit of a let down?

 

Dany's also the most iconic character of the series. Here, certainly, she's all over all the posters and advertisements.

 

As for her downfall, I saw it coming at least from early last season (namely, "I was born to rule the seven kingdoms, and I will"), so I don't think its an abrupt transition by any means.

 

Also, that's how you do a tragic hero. First you show them as sympathetic and admirable heroes, so that when they fall apart, it matters to the audience.

 

Which isn't to say that I think its a particularly good transition. Something about it doesn't do it for me.

[Quintus 5,399]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just realized why GOT is so disappointing to me now. 

 

I watch plenty of "turn my brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, and that's perfectly fine. I watch plenty of "pay attention and you'll get more out of it" finely crafted television and that is ultimately more satisfying, but also more disappointing when they screw something up. 

 

Game of Thrones now in its later seasons is really no better than average "turn your brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, but because those early seasons were so rewarding if you paid more attention and got more invested, it brings the disappointment with it, big time. 

 

Let's just hope the spectacle in the final 2 eps is good at least... 

 

You sum it up well. And I'm literally just watching the rest for the spectacle and for the sake of personal completion.

 

In many ways Game of Thrones now reminds me of Ubisoft open world games in that I really enjoy them at first but my interest tapers off in the final few hours of the main campaign and I basically just plod along to the end from there, treating it like a chore, but wanting to finish the game purely because I've already invested so much time into it by then, which to me would make it feel like a waste if I simply stopped playing. This basically describes every Assassin's Creed and Far Cry I've ever played. Even the latest Spider-Man game couldn't hold my attention to the end.

[Holko 9,531]

And that is precisely why these infantile tactics or illogical skirmishes are all the more irritating: if you make a point of moving to big action from character nuances and subtle intrigue, at least spend your time making that action good and logical.

 

There are relatively reliable leaks. Eh.

 

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Proceed at your own risk and take with a grain of salt!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Dany goes full batshit, executes Varys, starts killing everyone in King's Landing, Jon will kill her. The two Cleganes will kill each other. Jaime will be captured by Dany, escape, get to Cercei already mortally wounded from killing Euron, they'll die together. Tyrion will be put on trial for letting Jaime go, Bran will recall a s01 line of his with his incredible powers, Tyrion will die somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jay 37,373]

We're all the embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy now! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just realized why GOT is so disappointing to me now. 

 

I watch plenty of "turn my brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, and that's perfectly fine. I watch plenty of "pay attention and you'll get more out of it" finely crafted television and that is ultimately more satisfying, but also more disappointing when they screw something up. 

 

Game of Thrones now in its later seasons is really no better than average "turn your brain off and enjoy it" entertainment, but because those early seasons were so rewarding if you paid more attention and got more invested, it brings the disappointment with it, big time. 

 

Let's just hope the spectacle in the final 2 eps is good at least... 

 

Exactly. It went from "Golden Age Of TV" level writing and plotting to network TV. Which is rather sad. 

 

The spectacle in the next 2 eps should be great, but won't save the show. For me it jumped the shark last season with the clumsy, hamfisted plotting and ridiculous character stuff 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Stefancos said:

 

The spectacle in the next 2 eps should be great, but won't save the show. For me it jumped the shark last season with the clumsy, hamfisted plotting and ridiculous character stuff 

 

Oh God all that Arya vs. Sansa crap was miserable to sit through.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jon and his mates traveling beyond the wall to capture a zombie to convince Cersei to send her armies North was a dumb distraction since we now know Cersei had no intention of ever doing that.

 

Nothing in season 7 had much impact on what happened in 8 actually. You could lift it right out.

[Quintus 5,399]

8 minutes ago, Holko said:

 

There are relatively reliable leaks. Eh.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

Proceed at your own risk and take with a grain of salt!

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

Dany goes full batshit, executes Varys, starts killing everyone in King's Landing, Jon will kill her. The two Cleganes will kill each other. Jaime will be captured by Dany, escape, get to Cercei already mortally wounded from killing Euron, they'll die together. Tyrion will be put on trial for letting Jaime go, Bran will recall a s01 line of his with his incredible powers, Tyrion will die somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How reliable?

[Holko 9,531]

3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

How reliable?

 

Here's the whole thing and how reliable the leakers are:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bkc8xd/compilation_of_spoilers_for_got_episodes_46/

 

[Jay 37,373]

In the early seasons, whenever anything shocking happened, a big character death or major plot development, it completely made sense. By that I mean the actions the characters took were always in line with how they had been developed, the seeds for their actions were planted with foreshadowing or other actions they took or certain things they said. In other words, things could happen you didn't see coming, but in retrospect, they made perfect sense and didn't ever feel like they were done just to shock. 

 

In the later seasons, things just happen that don't make sense, characters take actions that aren't in line with how they'd been developed to that point, plot points happen quickly with little to no setup or explanation beforehand. 

 

In this episode in particular, there is a huge feeling of backwards plotting. The writers wanted Dany to witness Cersei executing Missandei as the final straw to get her to attack Kings Landing, so they thought up this scenario where she gets ambushed in broad daylight in open sea and Missandei gets captured and that's that. 

 

They want Varys to turn against her so he just does in one episode and that's that.

 

Oh well. 

[Wojo 2,453]

Season 7 saw Dany to fall in love with a scruffy bastard from the north who bent the knee but now threatens her mission more than anyone. Without S7, he would just be another obstacle for her dragon to burn. 

[Jay 37,373]

Anyone else feel that Jon and Dany have no chemistry whatsoever, and the only reason we know they are in love is because they are given dialogue where they say they are? 

[Holko 9,531]

When rewatching the whole thing in preparation, that was 100% clear: classic case of "they love each other now because we say they do" in the last ep of s07.