soundwave 0 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 So, what is the real reason for Padme's death? Did Anakin force choaking her cause her death, or could it really be as silly as a broken heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 It's poetic, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Well, maybe that was the intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I never really understood what she died of. If it was a result of the force choke injuries , I doubt she would have woken up and stayed alive through the childbirth. They didn't even try to revive her at the ultra sophisticated Polis Massa base, if she had some sort of childbirth complication.So her death in the film makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,143 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Well, you can sort of chalk it up to plain old destiny. She played an important, but unfortunate role in the prophecy of bringing balance to the Force. Had she lived, the twins would not separate, and Vader would've messed it all up. So she had to go. Maybe it was the Force itself that killed her?I must agree though, it's not a satisfying story point. It would've been better to just have Anakin's force choke damage be somehow irreparable. I will say this: If you've never checked it out, do yourself a favor and read the novellization of ROTS by Matthew Stover (or listen to the audiobook). Everything in that story makes much more sense and flows better in the book. It really is a terrific adaptation, and makes you appreciate the overall story better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The prequels just have sucky deaths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 She died of bird flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 That makes sense. She was in fact Anakin's bird. But seriously... In the original version, which was actually shot at some point, he threw her against a wall or something and she hit her head. You can even see that in the comic book adaptation, I think. But then it was later decided that she would die out of broken heart. Go figure.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 It seems in fanboy anger, you all killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 That makes sense. She was in fact Anakin's bird. But seriously... In the original version, which was actually shot at some point, he threw her against a wall or something and she hit her head. You can even see that in the comic book adaptation, I think. But then it was later decided that she would die out of broken heart. Go figure.KarolThat I could believe happen, head injury and the doctors on Polis not detecting it.The way how she died in the film was an over all poor decision on showing it. That is one thing that has always bugged me about ROTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The prequels just have sucky deaths!It's true. It's not just Padme's. Her's at least has that tragic irony, but it's still not done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I think Padme's death seems quick and arbitrary because he wrote to our expectations of what had to happen, and to basically make a connection in his stories, and didn't stop to consider a reason. She died because the plot required her to.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I think Padme's death seems quick and arbitrary because he wrote to our expectations of what had to happen, and to basically make a connection in his stories, and didn't stop to consider a reason. She died because the plot required her to.TimJust like how Anakin's turn to the Dark Side was so abrupt and quick? I was hoping there would have been something more grander for showing his turning rather than what we saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I still prefer the version I heard way back in the day, long before Star Wars became popular again around 1995.Anakin Skywalker's sitting at the bar. This old guy comes up to him and says, "hey, you wanna join the Dark Side?" Anakin finishes his drink, says "yea," and they leave. Boom. Darth Vader.So, what is the real reason for Padme's death? Did Anakin force choaking her cause her death, or could it really be as silly as a broken heart?The twins Forced their way out, causing massive hemorrhaging.Whoops, too graphic.Good thing George Lucas didn't pen the Jaws screenplay, or Matt Hooper would have died in the lounge of the Orca after admitting he, too, had a broken heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave 0 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 I've just always looked at it as the force choke would not have caused any physical damage such as bruising or a broken neck but rather simulated that kind of trauma which is why the medical droids are confused as to the reason for her decline. Really, after Anakin chokes her, she isn't ever again completely coherent. Even during the birth, it's like the adrenaline is giving one last push and then she just can't fight anymore. As a guy, I've never bought into the "she's lost the will to live" argument because that would lead to she has nothing to live for without anakin. I'm sorry, but she just birthed twin babies, and you got nothing to live for. Now, my wife on the other hand says she completely gets that since she says if i was gone she would have a hard time moving on with life, and we got three kids. Still, I like to think anakin ironically killed padme out of his own twisted selfish desire to save her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The stress of birth is enough to cause women to sometimes not survive. I always interpreted it as she was dying already so they had to take the babies from her because her body was shutting down. The force choke may have crushed more than just her throat...and I imagine it might be reasonable to say it cut off blood supply to the brain too. Doing that could cause a lot of weird things. It's vaguely anonymous and meant to be very...Greek epic poem like. Losing the will to live is great and all but that's only truly important if like... you're fighting to stay alive which I always interpreted that she was needing to because of what Anakin did.I made an edit of Episode III where I edited out a lot of the lines to just be "She is dying. We need to operate quickly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I think Padme's death seems quick and arbitrary because he wrote to our expectations of what had to happen, and to basically make a connection in his stories, and didn't stop to consider a reason. She died because the plot required her to.TimThis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Actually, Padme should not have died at all. Remember that scene between Luke and Leia in ROTJ? Leia remembered her mother and she died when Leia was very little. Why contradict the little information the OT provided anyway..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 But if Padme did not die, then the most dramatically potent scene of the movie would have been ridiculous and hollow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 It surely isn't hollow regardless. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Actually, Padme should not have died at all. Remember that scene between Luke and Leia in ROTJ? Leia remembered her mother and she died when Leia was very little. Why contradict the little information the OT provided anyway..? thanks to leia's line 'she was sad' padme dies of sadness.damn lucas.Padme should have lived on, undercover in alderaan, and only then die, in some sick mental disorder, not wanting to live on, detaching herslef from reality. or something like that...The funeral should have been a hoax.But then the funeral is a rather emotive scene, it would be sad if it had not that impcat in the film or was notthere at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The good thing that we get out of it that at least we got a cool variation on the Williams' prequel funeral music in these scenes (I mean the funeral and the scene on the star destroyer after that). Some of the best bits in the score.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 hmmm...i just found it a little lazy scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 So you say you don't like Funeral/Vader/Force theme combo?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I just think that in the 70's and 80's JW would have composed something completely new and amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 That scene with Vader would have worked perfectly well if Padme had been killed by an exploding chip-pan fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave 0 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Tell me if I'm wrong, but it nowhere points out that Leia knew she was adopted. I mean the comment where Luke asks if she remembers her real mother could easily be written off as Leia is recalling her adoptive mother who she believed was her real mother. I know it's kinda stretching it but in reality, Lucas had unknowingly written himself into a corner that wouldn't present itself until ROTS. The problem is that Padme had to die because it just seems her story needed a definite end. She obviously wouldn't have survived until ANH so it's like she would just pass somewhere in between with out a blatant explanation. Besides, a man character needs to have their demise explained if it happens. Leia's comment three films later is just not enough. Also, thematically, it had to happen to create that ironic twist of events and the general audience had to see that since no doubt Padme's story would have continued through the expanded universe but the general audience won't go that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Princess Leia: Luke, what's wrong?Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.Luke: What do you remember?Princess Leia: Just... images really. Feelings.Luke: Tell me.Princess Leia: She was... very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I just think that in the 70's and 80's JW would have composed something completely new and amazing.That's easily said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 But correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The truth is always easy, Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 "Padme's Funeral" is some really fantastic scoring. Williams could have written something completely unrelated to everything else, but this had the perfect emotional and leitmotivic content, so why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 As mentioned I've always felt Anakin started her death with the force choke and the emotional & physical toll of him turning to the darkside and childbirth added to the situation. If Lucas had any guts he would have had Anakin kill her outright.In reality just another poor moment from the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Plus, it looked like a Pixar movie with some live actors dropped in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 That started with AOTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 "Padme's Funeral" is some really fantastic scoring. Williams could have written something completely unrelated to everything else, but this had the perfect emotional and leitmotivic content, so why bother?Yeah why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave 0 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Princess Leia: Luke, what's wrong?Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.Luke: What do you remember?Princess Leia: Just... images really. Feelings.Luke: Tell me.Princess Leia: She was... very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.I know the exchange and I know what it's suppose to imply, but just playing devil's advocate, it never explicitly says she knows she's adopted. Like I said, a stretch, but not unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 well since Luke asks about her REAL mother. I can only logically deduct that Leia has 2 mothers, and that she was aware of that fact, since she does not seem phased by the mention of her real mother.BTW. Don't be Lucas' Devils advocate. No one does it better then Ricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave 0 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 well since Luke asks about her REAL mother. I can only logically deduct that Leia has 2 mothers, and that she was aware of that fact, since she does not seem phased by the mention of her real mother.BTW. Don't be Lucas' Devils advocate. No one does it better then Ricky.Well, I was going to respond by pointing out that Luke wouldn't have known Leia had two mothers, but I stopped myself and realized Luke was speaking to her about it for the explicit reason to tell her she was his sister. So, I won't try to play advocate anymore. Screw George Lucas and his inconsistancies!Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The truth is always easy, Thomas.Bullshit. To assume that Williams would have approached a specific scene with one of those iconic, fantastic setpieces with their own sweeping motifs is the laziest kind of wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Oh I can completely understand Williams. I mean both AOTC and ROTS are full of tracked music anyway. The scene was probably temptracked with Qui-Gon's funeral music.I understand it, but it rubs me the wrong way. Like reusing the dual music from TESB, like reusing Flight From Peru in KOCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Indeed, he's gotten lazy in his old years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 And neither Spielberg nor Lucas are pushing him to do better.I wish Williams would work with a really demanding director like Paul Verhoeven. He was really on Goldsmith's ass when he was scoring his films, particularly Basic Instinct. The the end result is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I understand it, but it rubs me the wrong way. Like reusing the dual music from TESB, like reusing Flight From Peru in KOCS.No, it is not At all. You are mixxing up Padme's death cue and Padme's funeral cue. the former is just practically a mere re-recording, while the second is a choirless adaptation interlaced with imperial march and force theme.Its no like ESB or ROTJ didnt have their re-orchestrations of previous film music.And neither Spielberg nor Lucas are pushing him to do better.I wish Williams would work with a really demanding director like Paul Verhoeven. He was really on Goldsmith's ass when he was scoring his films, particularly Basic Instinct. The the end result is great.For Goldsmtih standard's maybe.Williams delivers better music to his lazy friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Huh?ROTJ only has one cue that is very similar to music from Star Wars' Tie Fighter attack. The film version Sail Barge Assault re-uses some music, but integrates it fairly well with the new music written exclusively for the film.What re-orchestrations are there in TESB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Oh I can completely understand Williams. I mean both AOTC and ROTS are full of tracked music anyway. The scene was probably temptracked with Qui-Gon's funeral music.I understand it, but it rubs me the wrong way. Like reusing the dual music from TESB, like reusing Flight From Peru in KOCS.Now those bother me. They just feel lazy. And I'm not the biggest fan of the funeral music being modified only slightly for the death scene, as it does feel a little lazy, too. But the cue "Padme's Funeral" takes that melody and does something completely different with it, and the addition of the Imperial March just brings it all together into what was always a goosebump-inducing musical moment for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 When you get to the fourth film of a franchise you obviously go "eh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 For Goldsmtih standard's maybe.Williams delivers better music to his lazy friends Hmm...i disagree.I actually prefer lazy Goldsmith score to a lazy Williams score I think.Cuaron pushed Williams a bit for POA, and Johnny left the franchise. I guess he don't like to be pushed around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,796 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Huh?ROTJ only has one cue that is very similar to music from Star Wars' Tie Fighter attack. The film version Sail Barge Assault re-uses some music, but integrates it fairly well with the new music written exclusively for the film.What re-orchestrations are there in TESB?I just meant usage of old themes in a different way.Re-orchestration is not cut and paste, as the cues you are comparing padme's funeral with.For Goldsmtih standard's maybe.Williams delivers better music to his lazy friends Hmm...i disagree.I actually prefer lazy Goldsmith score to a lazy Williams score I think.you always take the bait like some wittless fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Yeah I mean that cue that reuses Quo-Gon's funeral music note-for-note.The other version of it which was not on the CD is better. And I don't mind Williams reusing a thematic idea (which is a cornerstone a the way she scores films), But just cutting and pasting an entire section of music whole sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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