War Horse MOVIE Discussion thread

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I'm really surprised how a score made with so much love gets so much hate...

Sadly yes. I can't say personally how well it works in the film since I have not seen it but from what I gather from reviews and comments Williams must have been extremely inspired by the film and wrote a beautiful score straight from the heart expressing what he was feeling for the film. But this fervent abandon with which he created the music coupled with Spielberg's love of Williams' music and inability to say no to the Maestro might have resulted in some scenes being overscored for most modern audiences becoming emotionally melodramatic and pushy.

Having seen the film, I will say there are a handful of spots, mostly in the first act, where the movie itself felt much more restrained than I was expecting from JW's lush music. The images are beautiful, but the camera movements, for example, are actually fairly simple and minimal. Not a whole lot of that swooping and sweeping so often found in films of this type, which does the give the impression that the music is trying a bit too hard with some of its bigger swells.

On the whole, though, I think the comments on the score are overstated. And I disagree with Jason, the film enhanced many tracks on the album, for me, especially from The Death of Topthorn onward. First thing I did when I got home from the movie, actually, was listen to No Man's Land, which is a track I hadn't thought too much about after my initial listen on the Garland show but is now one of my favorites. Personally, I found Williams much more omnipresent and noticeable in Tintin, and a large contribution to that sense of the movie never really stopping for a breather. Which I understand some people love, but I had mixed feelings about it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Whilst I've quite liked the sound of the music in its own right, I have had my reservations about it as score ever since that first trailer we got. Sometimes, there's something about JW's 'theatrical melancholy' style which I find irritating, I can't quite put my finger on it. Hmm, it's pretentiously sentimental, that's it. My fears that the syrup might be applied by the bucketload appear to have come true, which if so is bloody annoying. Annoying because it could be the music which is the most (or only) damaging aspect of the film. But we'll see.

As it is now though, I'm fully expecting ALWAYS meets BLACK BEAUTY.

[publicist 4,643]

"Remind me, why are you here again? You know - on the John Williams fan forum. He being the famous mainstream composer of Hollywood's biggest hits."

[Quintus 5,399]

Listen little clever-clogs in the corner - at what point in my post did I give the impression I'm not a supporter of Hollywood and it's output? Where exactly did I name drop little hard-done-by indie flicks and obscure foreign masterpieces in an effort to look like a sophisticated prat?

Come back to me when you feel less like taking opportunistic potshots and more like having a conversation.

[publicist 4,643]

I can come back when i like and all films mentioned are much worthier of your time than watching CAPTAIN AMERICA or whatever rabble you get from the video store's top shelves these days.

It is AN OUTRAGE that people like you act as if all the junk piled in cinemas every year needs their (as if!) protection and just when you thought he would sink no lower, now even the mention of movies not MI 4 and the likes rates as intellectual dishonesty.

Hereby, we sentence Quint to 4 showings of VAN HELSING per day for an indefinite period! May his brain rest in pieces.

[Quintus 5,399]

Video stores still have top shelves? And they have Captain America on them? In my day they had porn.

Safer times.

[publicist 4,643]

Come to think of it, i never rented porn from a videostore. But i rented both HOOK and CURLY SUE in a videostore and it was embarassing all the same.

[Quintus 5,399]

Admission of Curly Sue video rental: -10 Charisma

[publicist 4,643]

Only if you watched it. When i had pay-tv i watched THE CARE BEARS MOVIE, DUNSTON CHECKS IN and BEETHOVEN'S 2ND. But it was always in a state that didn't allow me to get up to click the remote...

[indy4 155]

Sorry to interupt you two, but did anybody else notice the apple mistake in War Horse? I could just be seeing things, but when Albert is training Joey there's a section where he holds up an apple as a treat. He tosses it/spins it in the air and its clear that there's no bite in it. The camera cuts to a different angle and there's a big bite in the apple, even though nobody was shown eating it.

[Jay 37,364]

I noticed that

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's not a perfect movie, or even really a great one, but there's a lot of good stuff in it. I was very taken with it, and I was surprised to wake up this morning, still thinking about it. It is pretty corny in spots, and a lot of that can be somewhat unbelievable and pretty hard to take, but I felt Spielberg et al also showed a lot of maturity in some key moments. Not nearly as bad as some of the trailers/reviews lead me to believe, it's at once a return to his more flashy, melodramatic tendencies and a continuation of his increasingly restrained style.The story and characters are spread pretty thin, but the storytelling was involving, I thought. Lots of beautiful imagery, creative transitions (that shot of the mother knitting dissolving into the plowing field was a favorite), powerful moments created out of so-so material. And I agree with those who say that the finale is the finest moment for all involved.

I disagree, I'd go so far to say it's his best film of the 21st century. It is not perfect, that I have to agree with. But the film is episodic by nature and it is not a flaw or error. It is simply the way this story is told. It is the story of Joey, not Albie, Emilie, or any other characters. Never a fan of J. Kaminski as a cinematographer but his effort in this film is just amazing. His homage to Gone With the Wind is a cinematic jewel.

There are many terrific moments in this film, but I must say the sequence in no man's land will last with me forever. Not all movies have scenes that stay with you but that is one I won't ever forget. The scene with the cannon was gruelling. Yes at the end of the film there is a statement that no animals were harmed in the production of this film. They could not say that in some of the old movies. I'm very glad that Steven made this film. Yes it's melodramtic. Yes it is manipulative, but that is the beauty of this film. It harkens back to movies of old. This is comfort food. So many of the negative reviews of this film on rotten all read the same....it is as if the reviewer says "I'm a cold heartless piece of shit human being who cannot accept warmth and emotion, they are weaknesses" Hey it is okay to be engaged by this film, no humans are harmed in the opening of their heart and soul to enjoy this film.

[Quintus 5,399]

but apparently some egos were. Which is the 'problem'.

[Faleel 5,349]

Eh, "all" of those reviewers are Vulcan's in hiding.

[Henry B 50]

Hmm. I really wanted to like this movie, but it left me pretty cold. It's so hard to explain: I felt like all the characters were space aliens, their actions unconvincing, their speech especially unconvincing. Maybe that's because there isn't much dialogue and the film is told from the horse's perspective. Fine, I like that. But then don't ask me to care so much about the human characters. I just don't buy Albert and his obsession to be reunited with Joey. Real people don't do things like that. Okay, but it's a fairytale, right? But... there are scenes of brutal violence. It's tonally schizophrenic and pulled me in so many directions that I ended up nowhere at all.

All the reviewers, the critical ones at least, are saying that Spielberg layered on the sap and tugs at the heartstrings. For me, it's the opposite. War Horse was dull and lacked real emotion. Sadly, Williams' score, which sounded really good on CD, contributed mightily. It seemed so dim, restrained, and conventional. There's a really beautiful piano solo in the last scene of the film. But when it gave way to the usual full orchestra with plaintive trumpet theme, I actually got angry. Why did it have to go out on such a mediocre note?

[indy4 155]

The only major complaint I had about the film was the part where all the soldiers chipped in to purchase Joey at the end. We had no idea 1) that the soldiers knew about the bond between Joey and Albert and 2) that the soldiers cared enough for Albert to do that. What should of happened is, that mean guy that Albert saved who said he offerred to claim that Joey was his (as officers got to keep their horses) should have been successful. Granted, that way you can't have the wonderful scene between Albert and the old French guy, but it would've been more believable.

[Hedwig 5]

Well I saw the film last night and I have to say, I was amazed! The film is not perfect. There are many flaws that did annoy me, especially up to the story of the two German boys. But the film was made so well, the shots, the music, the acting, so that even when it was flawed it still had a likeable charm.

But in comparison to some less enjoyable scenes, the rest of the film was excellent. There were some scenes that where so powerful, I actually got the weird feeling that I was watching a film that was already known as a classic film from years ago. Like when the soldiers went over the top, or the horse in no man's land. Even the last scene was incredible. The lighting was just stunning, and the music just shone. When the cellos play the friendship theme in that wonderful emotional part of track 15, it couldn't have fitted the scene better.

Something I'm suprised less people are talking about is how clever many of the deaths in the film are handled. You never see blood, but there are several deaths that actually benefited from not actually seeing what happened such as

The death of the british officer, you just see his face, then joey running alone. Also the two boys who get shot, the windmill shot is just superb

, really well done!

Overall, a fantastic movie in my opinion, though with flaws, is forgiven for it's general technical and emotinal brilliance throughout, and a few scenes which just make your jaw drop! Not schmaltzy I'd say, but really nice Spielberg sentimentality, with some good Spielberg humour too

[mrbellamy 6,287]

The only major complaint I had about the film was the part where all the soldiers chipped in to purchase Joey at the end. We had no idea 1) that the soldiers knew about the bond between Joey and Albert and 2) that the soldiers cared enough for Albert to do that. What should of happened is, that mean guy that Albert saved who said he offerred to claim that Joey was his (as officers got to keep their horses) should have been successful. Granted, that way you can't have the wonderful scene between Albert and the old French guy, but it would've been more believable.

I don't really agree with this. I think the reunion scene made Albert's relationship with Joey palpable to the others. Certainly Colin (the soldier who rescued Joey from No Man's Land) and the officer who ordered Joey to be shot seemed rather moved by the whole thing, and obviously everybody was watching it all unfold. As for the soldiers not caring about Albert, I've never been a soldier, but I would think it a given that a group of soldiers would care for a fellow brother in arms. It's not like that was Albert's first week in the service.

[lostinspace 8]

It is a strange film in many respects for the average movie-goer. Putting aside all the Spielberg-directed criticism I think the main problem with War Horse is it's script. It is bland and uninteresting, making it hard for the actors to really throw themselves in the role.

I can stomach (just) all the perfect sunsets and green grass etc etc. but I think this film should have had better writers. I think when JW was writing the music he was more inspired by the scenery than the script at times when the script or writing should lead and the score should accompany it. Although the music is nice (though old school) a lot of criticism has been directed at Williams over the bombastic nature of the score and it is really Spielbergs fault for letting the film become that way.

Oh and another criticism. Spielberg needs to stop being so literal in his films and leave something for the audience to think about. When you think about it really good movies like, for example. Shawshank Redemption, the director will let the viewer join the dots.

From the reviews these points seem pretty clear:

Second half of film is better than first half.

There is too much JW score presence in first half; it is unnecessary.

With regard to JW score making the movie sappier, I absolutely agree. For audiences today ( yes in 2012) there was too much music used in the film, and it really detracts from the visuals. I don't know who did the music editing but it was really poorly done. For such a long movie you don't need to drench the audience with themes, save it up for when its really needed, like at the end where Joey finds his horse where it the music really adds!!!!!!!

[Romão 2,274]

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this, but I thought it was incredible:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2840768931148

[Incanus 5,715]

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this, but I thought it was incredible:

http://www.facebook....v=2840768931148

Heh. I was fooled for the first few moments. Impressive. Most impressive.

[Jilal 569]

I saw it yesterday evening.

Beautiful film.

[Jilal 569]

The Blu-Ray (region B) gets released on May 5.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Where did you find that out?

[A24 4,333]

I saw the trailer and the cinematography bits reminded of constantly of Snyder and Larry Fong.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

The film hasn't opened in Spain yet, but I flew to London this weekend so I could see it along with the play. I liked it a lot, but it feels more like a guilty pleasure than a solid passion. Spielberg haters can have a field day with this.

I felt like all the characters were space aliens, their actions unconvincing, their speech especially unconvincing. Maybe that's because there isn't much dialogue and the film is told from the horse's perspective. Fine, I like that. But then don't ask me to care so much about the human characters. I just don't buy Albert and his obsession to be reunited with Joey. Real people don't do things like that. Okay, but it's a fairytale, right? But... there are scenes of brutal violence. It's tonally schizophrenic and pulled me in so many directions that I ended up nowhere at all.

Funny. The way I saw it, the movie is tonally uniform -- almost perfectly so, perhaps the first Spielberg in years to be so eloquent. Just as Ryan in Saving Private Ryan represents every American who didn't need to fight in WWII and the whole movie is a series of ruminations on war under that perspective (why do they fight? what's the point?), the horse in War Horse seems to represent, or at least awake, the humanity in the characters that run into him. What makes it interesting, then, is that it's a (naive and old fashioned) movie about humanity in the most inhuman of times. Hence the brutal war scenes.

As for the adaptation, Spielberg did some unfathomable changes to the original play, perhaps in a desire to stick closer to the book. See, in the play, there's no farm owner -- this character is the father's brother. He went to war, came back a hero and always resented his sibling for staying in the farm. This is interesting for three reasons:

1) It makes the mother character far more interesting. She condones her husband's alcoholism with much more passion than in the movie, because she understand that taking care of a family, like Albert's father did, is just as heroic as fighting a war. But she still resents his actions, so she's always torn between supporting him (her exchanges with her brother-in-law are memorable) and keeping him in line. Since the "villain" doesn't have any interest in the farm whatsoever, it makes his contempt more villainous.

2) This family dynamic explains Albert's loneliness and why he bonds with Joey so strongly. Albert doesn't want his father to buy Joey at first, but then sees him as the companion he has always lacked in this family.

3) The father only buys Joey (with the farm's mortgage money, not the rent) because his brother shows interest in him. When the brother tries to buy Joey off him because he is no good in a farm, he sets up a bet that Joey can be taught to plow. There is more tension to the scene that way. He only has to plow a certain distance.

Other changes (the characters than run into Joey are way darker, even if the play is much less cruel to the horse) are easy to understand. It's a very complex story that Spielberg wanted to simplify for the sake of homaging Ford, De Mille, Capra and Hawks. (Funny how Spielberg, who used to negate any classic Hollywood influences in the 1970s and 1980s --"I get more out of a George Lucas film than I do from John Ford," he famously said -- has with age turned them into his template of choice. Did this all begin with the rank academicism of The Color Purple?)

All in all, a movie by the same Spielberg that made Always and The Terminal, but with far more success. Since it doesn't add anything to his opus or to the state of current cinema, it will age poorly in the short term, but I'm sure it will be remembered fondly in the long run.

PS.- In such an episodic movie with so many characters in so many different settings, why the hell isn't the music more varied? An Albert/Joey theme would have sufficed to structure it and make it cohesive.

PS II.- The goose has the same role in both play and movie. And I was so ready to make a KOTCS prairie dog connection to it when I saw the film.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Geese are excellent guard 'dogs'.

I saw the film today. I liked it very much. Very beautiful and the music-film connection was superb.

The no man's land scene was very brutal. The sound in the theater was awesome, the horses galloping, the cannons... you could feel them.

I cant believe that i managed to go to the film totally unspoiled!

I thought the horse died!

So i was pleastly suprised.. though it would have been more dramatic the other way.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I also have had that impression. Weird.

[indy4 155]

I was also very pleasantly surprised I wasn't spoiled beforehand. The only major thing was as soon as I heard the opening measures of track 12, I instantly knew what was going to happen (not because I read the track title beforehand, but because I knew that one contained a spoiler). But that's okay, it was worth hearing the score before seeing the film.

[MSM 126]

Saw it today. It's not a bad movie and the atmosphere of the period is well done but it just doesn't hit all the right buttons.

Main problem is that the acting is too stiff (except for Jeremy Irvine's) and the cinematography too static. It never really comes to life, except for the battlefield sequence (which we have seen so many times before slightly differently). I was never really at ease watching the acting and the flow of the story. The locations of the scenes are often unclear, and the French and German accents are embarrassing, as is the untimely humor which has become Spielbergs trademark. Also there are too many rough edges (or loose ends) to my taste. Even the musical climaxes didn't really deliver onscreen, although I still think the music is the best part of the movie.

It reminded me of The Patriot in some ways, but I am afraid I prefer that one over War Horse.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

the blu ray hits here April 3rd. I'm getting the edition with the most extras. I'm most interested in the extra about the editing and scoring.

[Wojo 2,453]

Joey, you're back!

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

the blu ray hits here April 3rd. I'm getting the edition with the most extras. I'm most interested in the extra about the editing and scoring.

Are we sure the extra about music won't be this one?

http://designingsound.tv/the-sound-and-music-of-war-horse/

They mostly talk about the sound there, Williams is relegated to one minute or two at the end. It's even shorter than the video interview from YouTube...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I do not no, I have know ideal.

[publicist 4,643]

Main problem is that the acting is too stiff (except for Jeremy Irvine's) and the cinematography too static.

If there's a textbook definition of 'stiff', it's this actor. The cinematography is great. The main problem is that you shouldn't misuse World War I to sell a howler of a Disney fairy tale.

[Wojo 2,453]

That depends on whether the Disney fairy tale aspects were present in the book, which begat the stage play, which begat this film. If they were there, the film is obligated to sell them; if they were a Steven invention, then it could be problematic.

Don't forget that Hollywood used both 14/15 April 1912 and 7 December 1941 to sell largely successful albeit heavily contrived howlers of love stories.

I'm still waiting for an epic love story to be based on 28 January 1986.

[indy4 155]

Darn it, most of the special features are only available on the Blu Ray. Maybe I need to invest in a Blu Ray player, or whatever it's called. Anyways, it looks like the interview about the sound design linked above is probably not the only interview that features John Williams, as there's a section for "The Sounds of War Horse" that doesn't mention JW and a section called "Editing & Scoring" that does mention JW. I'd imagine we saw the former:

A Filmmaking Journey – Academy Award®-winning Director/Producer Steven Spielberg provides a unique and unprecedented look into the making and filming of “War Horse.”

Editing & Scoring – Multi-Oscar® winners Michael Kahn (film editor) and John Williams (composer) discuss specific aspects of editing the film and composing music for “War Horse,” as well as the secret to their long and successful collaborations with Steven Spielberg.

The Sounds of “War Horse” – Seven-time Academy Award®-winning sound designer Gary Rydstrom takes us through the sophisticated sound design he created for “War Horse.”

Through The Producer’s Lens – Producer Kathleen Kennedy shares the photos she took during filming and recounts how she discovered the source material, as well as her appreciation of Steven Spielberg’s vision, the team that sounds him, and why “War Horse” appealed to her.

“War Horse”: The Look – Director/Producer Steven Spielberg introduces us to his creative team of production designer Rick Carter, costume designer Joanna Johnston and director of photography Janusz Kaminski, who discuss what it took to design the look for the film.

An Extra’s Point of View – Film extra Martin Dew explains how and why he was brought in––along with a hundred other men––to be featured alternately as both German and British soldiers.

http://geektyrant.com/news/2012/2/22/war-horse-arrives-on-blu-ray-and-dvd-in-april.html

That depends on whether the Disney fairy tale aspects were present in the book, which begat the stage play, which begat this film. If they were there, the film is obligated to sell them; if they were a Steven invention, then it could be problematic.

Why does that matter? Either it works in the film or it doesn't.

[MSM 126]

Main problem is that the acting is too stiff (except for Jeremy Irvine's) and the cinematography too static.

If there's a textbook definition of 'stiff', it's this actor. The cinematography is great. The main problem is that you shouldn't misuse World War I to sell a howler of a Disney fairy tale.

The landscapes are great, the cinematography isn't.

Nothing would be wrong with a Disney fairy tale...just this isn't one...it's a strange mix of war movie and some other things. The entire thing feels unnatural.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

The release date of War Horse on Blu is quite near here in Europe. I was just thinking to watch it with my kids.

They have seen the trailer and heard the music(well of course), looking forward to see it.

I think the certificate was 12 and over, that goes fine with my older kids. But the problem is the

youngest one, 9-year-old daughter, biggest horse maniac in the world. How can tell her he is not allowed to watch it.

Or maybe I will let her see most of the film just skip the war scenes? Anyone with kids? Mr. Olivarez?

[Brónach 1,302]

I read they avoided to "show" stuff, but I haven't seen it yet

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Yep they did hide some killings but some of the war scenes are horribly scary.

And some scenes are so sad that I cried like a baby in the theater...

[Bellosh 3,419]

My only problem with this film:

There was no need for the little girl to have been killed. The film works just the same if he's going to buy the horse for her as a gift. It was pointless tugging at the strings of our hearts.