Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Jay 37,364]

Dude, all of that is greek to me. I don't even know what a perfect fifth is.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Then start learning Greek!

[Incanus 5,714]

Dude, all of that is greek to me. I don't even know what a perfect fifth is.

Well this is what Doug had to say in his "Bilbo Primer" last year:

Adventure

The theme heard at 0:15 in the whistle in "The World is Ahead" relates to Bilbo's adventure. (A-B-C#-E-E-G#-G#-A-E-C#-E-D). This theme is first heard in "My Dear Frodo" at approximately 0:37 and comes right on the heels of a gesture in the strings and woodwinds that hints at the History of the Ring theme without ever fully articulating it (Bb-D-F over Bb-major; F-F# over B-minor, etc.) In my opinion, really sets the tone for the score to come. SPOILERS: You also hear this theme near the end of the film when Bilbo leaps in to protect Thorin from Azog.

[Jay 37,364]

Inky, that's talking about Bilbo's Adventure theme, which starts at 0:37 in My Dear Frodo. The melody I originally thought was related to the Durin theme is the bit from 0:00-0:37 of My Dear Frodo.

[Incanus 5,714]

Inky, that's talking about Bilbo's Adventure theme, which starts at 0:37 in My Dear Frodo. The melody I originally thought was related to the Durin theme is the bit from 0:00-0:37 of My Dear Frodo.

Read the bolded part more closely!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Dude, all of that is greek to me. I don't even know what a perfect fifth is.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I have some basic music theory, like I can read music and understand some of the terminology but not really apply it to something I'm listening to. Something I intend to fix when I have the time

[gkgyver 1,645]

You should read it again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Dude, all of that is greek to me. I don't even know what a perfect fifth is.

Glad I'm not alone!

[Jay 37,364]

Inky, that's talking about Bilbo's Adventure theme, which starts at 0:37 in My Dear Frodo. The melody I originally thought was related to the Durin theme is the bit from 0:00-0:37 of My Dear Frodo.

Read the bolded part more closely!

Aha, I apologize!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

By the way, what's the motif in "On the doorstep"@7:14 / "A Liar and a Thief"@0:40 for? It seems to be the same as the ominous string line at the beginning of "Wilderland".

[Jay 37,364]

By the way, what's the motif in "On the doorstep"@7:14 / "A Liar and a Thief"@0:40 for? It seems to be the same as the ominous string line at the beginning of "Wilderland".

The Arkestone Theme from AUJ plays from 7:08-7:28 of On The Doorstep, is that what you're talking about?

At 0:40 in A Liar And A Thief, all I hear is Smaug's Theme.

EDIT: Oh, I think I hear what you mean, from 0:36-0:40 of Liar and a Thief, that does sound like the Arkenstone theme!

[Incanus 5,714]

By the way, what's the motif in "On the doorstep"@7:14 / "A Liar and a Thief"@0:40 for? It seems to be the same as the ominous string line at the beginning of "Wilderland".

Isn't that part of the Arkenstone motif? Which is also associated with the Map and the Key.

[gkgyver 1,645]

That's the Arkenstone motif. Listen also to My Dear Frodo at 3:10.

Hehe, Inky edited his post, realising Shore's score is more complex than he though

By the way, that motif starting at 1:57 in "The Hunters", is that Bard's theme, or a variation of it?

[ChrisAfonso 186]

By the way, what's the motif in "On the doorstep"@7:14 / "A Liar and a Thief"@0:40 for? It seems to be the same as the ominous string line at the beginning of "Wilderland".

Isn't that part of the Arkenstone motif? Which is also associated with the Map and the Key.

Indeed, thanks! My memories of AUJ are getting thin... time to get that blu.

[Incanus 5,714]

Hehe, Inky edited his post, realising Shore's score is more complex than he though

These scores always succeed in surprising me even after so much listening. Food for thought for years to come!

Have I mentioned that the action music in this score is bloody brilliant all around!

The Hunters

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hehe, Inky edited his post, realising Shore's score is more complex than he though

These scores always succeed in surprising me even after so much listening. Food for thought for years to come!

Indeed. I'm saying this without any intended fanboy-ism: Howard Shore is an amazing composer.

[Jay 37,364]

By the way, that motif starting at 1:57 in "The Hunters", is that Bard's theme, or a variation of it?

That has been perplexing me since I first heard it! It sounds SO FAMILIAR to me, but I just can't place it. Doug Adams, please help us out with this one?

[Incanus 5,714]

By the way, that motif starting at 1:57 in "The Hunters", is that Bard's theme, or a variation of it?

That has been perplexing me since I first heard it! It sounds SO FAMILIAR to me, but I just can't place it. Doug Adams, please help us out with this one?

I would tentatively guess that it is a variation on Bard's theme but yes Doug we need your help! A small hint! Pretty please!

[gkgyver 1,645]

To me it sounds like Bard's theme, once regular, and once flipsided.

But it also reminds me of the bass figures for the Mumakil on the Pelennor.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Hehe, Inky edited his post, realising Shore's score is more complex than he though

These scores always succeed in surprising me even after so much listening. Food for thought for years to come!

Indeed. I'm saying this without any intended fanboy-ism: Howard Shore is an amazing composer.

Fanboy! I remember when this used to be a John Williams forum!

[Jay 37,364]

Who?

[KK 3,307]

By the way, that motif starting at 1:57 in "The Hunters", is that Bard's theme, or a variation of it?

That has been perplexing me since I first heard it! It sounds SO FAMILIAR to me, but I just can't place it. Doug Adams, please help us out with this one?

I think that's just a natural extension/variation of Bards Theme.

I love the development of the Arkenstone theme by the way. I was surprised to see how the theme was played with in the opening of Kingsfoil.

[Jay 37,364]

I love the development of the Arkenstone theme by the way. I was surprised to see how the theme was played with in the opening of Kingsfoil.

I'm not hearing that. What timestamp do you mean exactly?

[gkgyver 1,645]

The very beginning.

[KK 3,307]

The first 13 seconds of Kingsfoil sounds like a variation of the Arkenstone theme (the melodic line that usually follows the choral cluster).

I'm not going crazy, right?

[Jay 37,364]

No, I kinda hear it now. Not the exact same melody as from My Dear Frodo and On The Doorstep, though.

[KK 3,307]

It's called variation

Which is why I'm quite pleased with how this theme has evolved in this score. There are many interesting variations near the end of the album.

[Jay 37,364]

The whole second half of the second disc is just pure gold. Really everything from A Spell Of Concealment to the end is just super strong (especially the Smaug material).

Though I admit, I am not QUITE in love with My Armor Is Iron. It sounds a bit weird to me, like the beginning and end of the full cue are chopped off. And the transition from where the track ends into I See Fire is really awkward, I hope in the final film there is bridging material from Shore first like in ROTK and AUJ,

[Incanus 5,714]

The whole second half of the second disc is just pure gold. Really everything from A Spell Of Concealment to the end is just super strong (especially the Smaug material).

Though I admit, I am not QUITE in love with My Armor Is Iron. It sounds a bit weird to me, like the beginning and end of the full cue are chopped off. And the transition from where the track ends into I See Fire is really awkward, I hope in the final film there is bridging material from Shore first like in ROTK and AUJ,

I have to admit that some of the final tracks have such sudden musical shifts it makes me wonder how rapid the cuts in the film will be.

[KK 3,307]

My Armor is Iron is fantastic, especially the choral take on Smaugs material. I don't quite recall the choppiness you're talking about, but what I've noticed is that there actually a lot of jarring micro edits throughout the album. Some of them are almost as bad as they were on the LOTR OSTs. It makes me wonder how much material we may be missing.

Unlike AUJ, I feel like this one may really need a CR set.

[Incanus 5,714]

My Armor is Iron is fantastic, especially the choral take on Smaugs material. I don't quite recall the choppiness you're talking about, but what I've noticed is that there actually a lot of jarring micro edits throughout the album. Some of them are almost as bad as they were on the LOTR OSTs. It makes me wonder how much material we may be missing.

Unlike AUJ, I feel like this one may really need a CR set.

I actually meant that there is a feel in the music that there will be a lot of intercutting between the company, Gandalf and Lake-Town.

[Bilbo 3,709]

A lot of those edits might not be present when we get extended versions with the SE although I haven't really noticed them so much.

The transition to I See Fire is bad because it goes straight into vocals which is IMO a bad idea. Hopefully there's some lead in material in the film or it'll be weird.

[Jay 37,364]

My Armor is Iron is fantastic, especially the choral take on Smaugs material. I don't quite recall the choppiness you're talking about, but what I've noticed is that there actually a lot of jarring micro edits throughout the album. Some of them are almost as bad as they were on the LOTR OSTs. It makes me wonder how much material we may be missing.

Unlike AUJ, I feel like this one may really need a CR set.

Well now, who said the OST is in chronological order?

[Barnald 365]

Nice observation on the Arkenstone theme at the start of Kingsfoil. I had previously thought there was something of the Dwarf Lords there, but evidently that was incorrect (it didn't make much sense anyway)

And there has to be about 20-30 seconds worth of music at the start of the credits. After all, we'll need some time to get out of the theatre before the song begins!

[Jay 37,364]

I have to admit that some of the final tracks have such sudden musical shifts it makes me wonder how rapid the cuts in the film will be.

Well now, who said the OST is in chronological order?

Also, a lot of the cuts are from the removal of 13 minutes from inside 12 different OST tracks to get down to the Standard Version OST... the Special Edition OST is of course less choppy sounding.

Nice observation on the Arkenstone theme at the start of Kingsfoil. I had previously thought there was something of the Dwarf Lords there, but evidently that was incorrect (it didn't make much sense anyway)

I don't think we'll be hearing the Dwarf Lords theme again until Dain shows up in TABA.... It was used only once in AUJ after all (when Balin mentions the dwarfs of the Blue Hills). I am SO GLAD we got that concert arrangement of the full theme on the SE OST!

Damn shame the DOS SE OST didn't get any theme presentations added to the end....

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's the theme for the line of Durin, and gradually replaces Thorin's theme as the theme used for his heroic and kingly actions and he gets closer to reclaiming his kingdom. It's kind of a shame Shore hadn't written it yet last year, and could have but some building-block version of it in AUJ.

OK now you obviously know something the rest of us do not Jason.

I am a bit sad the eerie choral motif from Radagast the Brown and the White Council some of us called The Shadow Over Mirkwood didn't make it to this film. I guess it either had no more significance in DoS or it was after all related to Radagast.

There is the slightest, probably coincidental hint at that (if I'm thinking of the same motif) at about 56 seconds into In The Shadow Of The Mountain. Same opening interval, with the same kind of expression, but again, it's probably coincidence.

[Incanus 5,714]

Nice observation on the Arkenstone theme at the start of Kingsfoil. I had previously thought there was something of the Dwarf Lords there, but evidently that was incorrect (it didn't make much sense anyway)

I don't think we'll be hearing the Dwarf Lords theme again until Dain shows up in TABA.... It was used only once in AUJ after all (when Balin mentions the dwarfs of the Blue Hills). I am SO GLAD we got that concert arrangement of the full theme on the SE OST!

Damn shame the DOS SE OST didn't get any theme presentations added to the end....

Ah so Beyond the Forest with the Woodland Realm themes is not a theme presentation in your opinion? Hmmm what could this mean?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Because I was curious about what Doug meant when he said it's more in the deeper layers where connections are made, saying that for example Beorn's theme is not just about the melody, but also the accompanying figures, I just tried something; and I'm pretty sure the harmonic progression in his theme strongly suggests Nature's Reclamation.

[Jay 37,364]

Nice observation on the Arkenstone theme at the start of Kingsfoil. I had previously thought there was something of the Dwarf Lords there, but evidently that was incorrect (it didn't make much sense anyway)

I don't think we'll be hearing the Dwarf Lords theme again until Dain shows up in TABA.... It was used only once in AUJ after all (when Balin mentions the dwarfs of the Blue Hills). I am SO GLAD we got that concert arrangement of the full theme on the SE OST!

Damn shame the DOS SE OST didn't get any theme presentations added to the end....

Ah so Beyond the Forest with the Woodland Realm themes is not a theme presentation in your opinion? Hmmm what could this mean?

Wha? Beyond The Forest is on the standard OST, not a SE OST exclusive, and also it's clearly the end credits of the film. Unless I am completely missing what you were trying to say?

Because I was curious about what Doug meant when he said it's more in the deeper layers where connections are made, saying that for example Beorn's theme is not just about the melody, but also the accompanying figures, I just tried something; and I'm pretty sure the harmonic progression in his theme strongly suggests Nature's Reclamation.

I'm sure it is! (Also, this connection was already pointed out by Glóin the Dark here: )

[Incanus 5,714]

Nice observation on the Arkenstone theme at the start of Kingsfoil. I had previously thought there was something of the Dwarf Lords there, but evidently that was incorrect (it didn't make much sense anyway)

I don't think we'll be hearing the Dwarf Lords theme again until Dain shows up in TABA.... It was used only once in AUJ after all (when Balin mentions the dwarfs of the Blue Hills). I am SO GLAD we got that concert arrangement of the full theme on the SE OST!

Damn shame the DOS SE OST didn't get any theme presentations added to the end....

Ah so Beyond the Forest with the Woodland Realm themes is not a theme presentation in your opinion? Hmmm what could this mean?

Wha? Beyond The Forest is on the standard OST, not a SE OST exclusive, and also it's clearly the end credits of the film. Unless I am completely missing what you were trying to say?

Well it is not a separate theme suite per se in the way that Dwarf Lords or Erebor were on the AUJ SE but it is a lengthy suite of the Woodland Realm elven themes.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Oh, ok.

The bassoon chords at 0:28 in The House Of Beorn are A minor descending to F major, which are the exact two chords for Nature Reclamation.

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh, ok.

The bassoon chords at 0:28 in The House Of Beorn are A minor descending to F major, which are the exact two chords for Nature Reclamation.

Looks like you and Glóin have cracked it!

[Lewya 360]

What do you think happens between 4.55 and 6.15 in 'The Hunters'?

Does someone die?

[Tedward 0]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here but I've been reading all posts on The Hobbit AUJ and DOS scores before creating an account (took me some bloddy time, have to confess) so I became a bit familiar with the topic.

I don't have much to add to all your very enlightened reflexions, but I'll just say all my admiration to Mr. Shore's work, who goes on with his fantastic masterpiece of LOTR. This new soundtrack is really magnificent, and has a proper identity which enlarges the musical environment of Middle-Earth in a great way.

Smaug's theme and variations are absolutely brilliant : the same way this tricksy dragon lord does, his music sneaks in the score, and progressively becomes a full expression of Smaugs nastiness : hypnotising, intoxicating, poisonous yet grand and terrible (Tolkien's character really rules... Really a shame a stupid arrow manages to kill that mighty tyran ! (I wrote that spoilerous sentence in white on white to avoid spoiler. I think there's an antispoiler mode, but I couldn't find it...)

Might be my only reserve could be at some moments the quite brutal changes in the themes of the soundtrack, which as was already mentioned makes me wonder about some transitions in the movie... time will tell !

[Jay 37,364]

What do you think happens between 4.55 and 6.15 in 'The Hunters'?

Does someone die?

Is that the hummed version of the Durin theme? That was my first thought when I heard it, but I have no idea.

Hello everyone,

I'm new here but I've been reading all posts on The Hobbit AUJ and DOS scores before creating an account (took me some bloddy time, have to confess) so I became a bit familiar with the topic.

I don't have much to add to all your very enlightened reflexions, but I'll just say all my admiration to Mr. Shore's work, who goes on with his fantastic masterpiece of LOTR. This new soundtrack is really magnificent, and has a proper identity which enlarges the musical environment of Middle-Earth in a great way.

Smaug's theme and variations are absolutely brilliant : the same way this tricksy dragon lord does, his music sneaks in the score, and progressively becomes a full expression of Smaugs nastiness : hypnotising, intoxicating, poisonous yet grand and terrible (Tolkien's character really rules... Really a shame a stupid arrow manages to kill that mighty tyran ! (I wrote that spoilerous sentence in white on white to avoid spoiler. I think there's an antispoiler mode, but I couldn't find it...)

Might be my only reserve could be at some moments the quite brutal changes in the themes of the soundtrack, which as was already mentioned makes me wonder about some transitions in the movie... time will tell !

Welcome, Tedward! Sorry it took me a few days to activate your account, but we've been having trouble with spambots lately and had to disable activations for a while, and then when I turned them back on yours got lost in with all the spambots.

To spoiler-block a part of your post, simply type what you want in between [ spoiler] tags, like this:

This text will not be hidden but [spoiler]this text will be hidden[/spoiler], you see?

Welcome again!

[Lewya 360]

What do you think happens between 4.55 and 6.15 in 'The Hunters'?

Does someone die?

Is that the hummed version of the Durin theme? That was my first thought when I heard it, but I have no idea.

Yep! I can't remember Smaug killing any dwarf or anyone in the book (of the characters we get to know), but again it was takes ago since I read it, so I do not remember much. It sounds to me like someone dies in that cue, to me a dwarf but Tauriel could be a possibility as well? I'm just guessing. I'm curious what you guys think happens.

[Jay 37,364]

I don't think many here will have an interest in speculating about the end of the movie, we will just wait and see the movie next week instead and enjoy the music for now until then.

[Tedward 0]

Thanks Jason ! No problem for the activation

Talking about Smaug, I don't remember if this question was already raised, but here I go :

I feel like his theme is a combination of 2 musical lines : the tremendous descending one (ta taaaaa, ta ta ta ta) and a rising figure going meanwile (tooooooo to to tooooooo). Are they one single theme or two sides of Smaug, or ... ?

(pardon me for my really crap way of tataaaaatotoooooo-ing the themes...)

[Jay 37,364]

Oh yea, Smaug clearly has two distinct themes. I don't know what Doug's official names will be, but I've been calling them Smaug's Angry Theme and Smaug's Seductive Theme.

[Barnald 365]

I'm sure that use of Durin's theme (I'll go with it) in 'The Hunters' is for the rather poignant moment when Thorin will behold the inside of Erebor again.