BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 forgetable underscorePASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It probably doesn't fit and feels like a part of a different score (like Dracula or The Fury).But I love it!Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's wonderfully atmospheric, I love it Wojo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I love it! I really like the French Horn (?) bit that closes it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranders65 65 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Have always loved that original version, although as has already been said, it totally doesn't seem to fit the rest of the score. It does, however, have the only other instance of a motif that seems like it may have been for Threepio (?). Check out 1:20-1:27 of Binary Sunset (Alternate) which seems to sync up to when Threepio jumps out from his hiding place behind the landspeeder in the garage and compare it to "Tales of Jedi Knight" around the 1:00 - 1:06 mark, which underscores Luke and Obi-Wan finding an armless Threepio shortly after the sandpeople attack Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It is a good example of how the approch or different emotional or atmospherical focus in a cue can entirely change the mood or meaning of a scene. The original take is quite subdued and moody and mysterious in comparison with the romantically nostalgic yearning of the final version. I like it but it is just not as emotionally resonant as the film version. The original take feels almost out of place mood-wise.It reminds me of the similar situation where Williams composed a very different and strange opening for the Poseidon Adventure but revised it to a more melodic and immediately impactful version for the film. The composer can really have a vastly different vision for a scene when left to his own devices and sometimes input from collaborators can really make a difference for the better (and of course for worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I far pfefer it, but...it really doesn't fit the film, and I understand why GL wanted it changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It does, however, have the only other instance of a motif that seems like it may have been for Threepio (?). Check out 1:20-1:27 of Binary Sunset (Alternate) which seems to sync up to when Threepio jumps out from his hiding place behind the landspeeder in the garage and compare it to "Tales of Jedi Knight" around the 1:00 - 1:06 mark, which underscores Luke and Obi-Wan finding an armless Threepio shortly after the sandpeople attack Luke. Oh, nice catch! It's definitely the same motif. Very cool indeed. It's great when someone uncovers something like this in a vastly familiar and almost 40 year old score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Isn't it just because we're so used to the film version that we think it doesn't fit, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I doubt it wouldn't fit the scene as it was written for it but the mood might change drastically.The Force Theme appearance in the film version doesn't fit into a strict leifmotivic use but the film eschews this practice also in the rather often discussed Princess Leia's theme for Obi Wan Kenobi's death scene, which is rather odd thematically but resonant emotionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's a really interesting cue. I don't think it feels incongruous simply because we're used to the film version - I think it really does stand apart from the rest of the score in terms of mood and approach. But regardless of how well or poorly it would have worked in the film, I enjoy this cue for its rich, expressive darkness. And yeah, that quasi-motif for Threepio has made me wonder what order the cues were written in. Maybe this cue was one of the first ones written, and he originally intended to use that motif more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brown 91 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I've always enjoyed it, too. However, it does sound like something from THE FURY or DRACULA, as crocodile pointed out.I'm not sure if I could label it as "forgettable underscore". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That makes the lack of a theme for Han even more intriguing.I mean, Williams wrote themes for all the major characters in Star Wars: Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin (if you consider the Death Star motif to be his theme), and now, it seems he even intended to have one for 3PO. And yet, no theme for Solo...It was his Solo mistake on this score you could say. Smeltington and Ludwig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wasn't there an even earlier version of this cue? that was never recorded..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That makes the lack of a theme for Han even more intriguing.I mean, Williams wrote themes for all the major characters in Star Wars: Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin (if you consider the Death Star motif to be his theme), and now, it seems he even intended to have one for 3PO. And yet, no theme for Solo...It was his Solo mistake on this score you could say. Hokey leitmotifs and ancient archetypes are no match for a good wisecrack at your side, kid. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That makes the lack of a theme for Han even more intriguing.I mean, Williams wrote themes for all the major characters in Star Wars: Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin (if you consider the Death Star motif to be his theme), and now, it seems he even intended to have one for 3PO. And yet, no theme for Solo...It was his Solo mistake on this score you could say. Hokey leitmotifs and ancient archetypes are no match for a good wisecrack at your side, kid.Wisecrack or do not. There is no try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I love it, too. It's not athematic - it uses the Dis Irae-derived motif Williams used in some scenes, the opening notes of this cue on the cellos and basses are same as in the opening 'Hologram', but backwards (a retrograde as we call it), along with a number motifs and harmonic ideas later presented in Burning Homestead. It basically foreshadows his adoptive aunt and uncle's deaths. Hear the Dis Irae motif at 1:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's a definitely a murkier, more anguished take on the scene. In terms of immediate foreshadowing, it's functionally more appropriate, but I think the final version does a better job establishing an emotional connection with the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It reminds me most of Ben Gardner's boat from Jaws. Sort of mysterious and haunting in the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It seems unnecessarily ominous whereas the film version of binary sunset could be thought of as Luke's nostalgia for the past/his dad who at this point in the story he only knew as a great jedi. Great music though, just too heavy handed for the scene. I'm glad we have it released. I wonder if GL requested a new binary sunset during the recording sessions or if JW went to London with two versions since GL would decide what to use later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It seems unnecessarily ominous. Enter Luke Skywalker, will he save the galaxy? or destroy it? Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 In Matessino's liner notes, here's what's written:Williams originally scored the scene with a darker, mysterious cue that did not utilize thematic material. It was revised when George Lucas suggested that Ben's theme would more effectively convey Luke's dream of leaving Tatooine.Williams apparently had a totally different read on what the scene was supposed to convey. If Lucas was envisioning Luke's dream, Williams seemed to be evoking, if anything, a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It's also got the Dies Irae, linking it to Luke's decision to leave after his folks die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It does make sense to use the Force theme if only to convey Luke's presence in a "larger world", so to speak, as he looks out on the sunset. Isn't that right Ben? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It's also got the Dies Irae, linking it to Luke's decision to leave after his folks dieI see the 4 note Dis Irae as Luke's Fate motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It does make sense to use the Force theme if only to convey Luke's presence in a "larger world", so to speak, as he looks out on the sunset. Isn't that right Ben?Using the Force theme is certainly more of a big picture way to score the scene, both in terms of the Star Wars mythos and of Campbellian heroism. I find it interesting, at least with the benefit (or burden) of hindsight, that Williams looked at a scene of a young man gazing toward the horizon and produced something so suffused with menace and despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It does make sense to use the Force theme if only to convey Luke's presence in a "larger world", so to speak, as he looks out on the sunset. Isn't that right Ben? Using the Force theme is certainly more of a big picture way to score the scene, both in terms of the Star Wars mythos and of Campbellian heroism. I find it interesting, at least with the benefit (or burden) of hindsight, that Williams looked at a scene of a young man gazing toward the horizon and produced something so suffused with menace and despair. Without getting too psychoanalytical or tasteless, perhaps the tragic passing of Barbara Ruick had an influence on Williams's dramatic instincts in that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It's also got the Dies Irae, linking it to Luke's decision to leave after his folks dieI see the 4 note Dis Irae as Luke's Fate motif.Sounds like a pretty grim fate to me if it truly Dies Irae be. But I don't think the situation with Binary Sunset rewrite is very uncommon. The director and composer spotted the scene and the Lucas didn't quite specifically convey his wishes or his temp track wasn't indicative enough and so Williams went away to write the score. Unlike Spielberg, who comes over weekly to hear what is going on with the music, Lucas usually leaves Williams alone with the score until the recording sessions and thus he did not hear anything Williams had composed until in London (I suppose as I do not know if they worked like this already with the first movie). But it is interesting that Williams, who likes to react to the movie alone, felt initially such forlornness coming from the film that it translated into this original version that is emotionally so ominous and almost grim. There is suspense and strong sense of uncertainty in the music, whereas the final version is quite hopeful, very thematic and warm.Similar questions of ambience and emotional response to the music necessitate rewrites all the time. A good example that comes to mind is the Looney Wendy cue from Hook, where Williams' original intention was equally mysterious, slightly off-kilter and creepy but was revised into a much more genial guise in the final version. In the final version the mood is the deciding factor, Spielberg opting for comforting and warm reading of the material to contrast with Wendy's apparent bout of mad senility instead of enchancing it further with the creepier original cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Wasn't there an even earlier version of this cue? that was never recorded..? As recorded, the original version does indeed represent a partially revised version of the cue, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Wasn't there an even earlier version of this cue? that was never recorded..?As recorded, the original version does indeed represent a partially revised version of the cue, IIRC.Might that be an indication that they tried to make the original version work by revising it but in the end opted for a completely new version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The horn melody at 1:20 in the original appears at 1:00 in Tales of a Jedi Knight/Learn about the Force as well. Is it possible that the latter (the first cue, Tales of a Jedi Knight, that is) was written after the first revised version of Binary Sunset was? Williams is known for developing short motifs in his scores, but a direct statement seems unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It isn't supposed to score 3PO jumping up, it's supposed to score Luke going outside to scout the landscape with his binoculars. There is a short shot of 3PO, but I think the focus here lies on Luke, his desperacy and his search for R2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Goodmusician synced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,138 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It isn't supposed to score 3PO jumping up, it's supposed to score Luke going outside to scout the landscape with his binoculars. There is a short shot of 3PO, but I think the focus here lies on Luke, his desperacy and his search for R2.Yes, I always interpreted it as the "Droids in Jeopardy" motif. I love it. It's so melancholy sounding.Without getting too psychoanalytical or tasteless, perhaps the tragic passing of Barbara Ruick had an influence on Williams's dramatic instincts in that period.Interesting. Slightly off topic: I was listening to AOTC yesterday, and trying to consider what outside influences could contribute to the dramatic shift in tone between TPM and AOTC. The thing that came to mind is that 9-11 happened in between. We've definitely seen its effect on other film makers, so perhaps the culture in America had an impact on Mr. Williams scoring of Episode ii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Lackluster 23 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I'm loving it, but it sounds more like 1941 than like Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The initial piece shouldn't even be heard. It's not part of the intended album presentation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 534 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 The Alternate Dark Binary Sunset motif appears in the "Anakin Loosing it Scene" in Attack of the Clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Loosing? And, it does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Timestamps please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 The Alternate Dark Binary Sunset motif appears in the "Anakin Loosing it Scene" in Attack of the Clones. Is that the scene where Padme spikes Anakin's drink with a laxative? Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 534 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Timestamps please!from 1 Hour 13 Minutes 11 Secs to 1 Hour 14 Minutes 2 Secshttp://youtu.be/r-ecgureI2w?t=1h13m11sThe Alternate Dark Binary Sunset motif appears in the "Anakin Loosing it Scene" in Attack of the Clones. Is that the scene where Padme spikes Anakin's drink with a laxative?She does what? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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