The Force Awakens Williams orchestrating The Force Awakens himself?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

This statement is rightfully wrong.

[Quintus 5,399]

JWFAN is no longer a reliable source of information (and hasn't been for a long time now).

Actually, JWFAN has never been a reliable source.

Which is kinda sad really isn't it. Sony and whoever else should trust us enough to be more forthcoming with exclusive JW news!

[mrbellamy 6,287]

Are score samples the only exclusive thing JWFan has ever been privy to?

[Jay 37,369]

NO, definitely not

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=929

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=5592

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6871

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6800

[mstrox 6,651]

And don't forget this, the worst and most inaccurate thing anybody has ever written

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=3006

[Jay 37,369]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Dear god...

[Hlao-roo 389]

JWFAN is no longer a reliable source of information (and hasn't been for a long time now).

Actually, JWFAN has never been a reliable source.

Agreed. For trustworthy information on John Williams, Jeff Eldridge's site has long been the authoritative source. JWFAN has made strides in papering over its image as a distributor of unauthorized material, but for me its seedy origins have cast a persistent pall over anything and everything it's put out since.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh yeah!

[lostinspace 8]

I find it interesting he didn't use an orchestrator for Book thief or Lincoln. So it's most likely a timing issue. Then again those were scores with less notes.

Also the sketch score for Episode 3 is so clearly laid out ( as you guys say some of it is on 16 lines)\ it really doesn't need an orchestrator at all... JW even has 3 lines for strings with often the viola getting it's own line. ie. The orchestrator has very little contribution if any. Perhaps they may cue in some low wood wind to double brass or strings so changes could be made on the fly?

[Ricard 2,245]

JWFAN is no longer a reliable source of information (and hasn't been for a long time now).

Actually, JWFAN has never been a reliable source.

Agreed.

I was actually joking.

JWFAN has made strides in papering over its image as a distributor of unauthorized material, but for me its seedy origins have cast a persistent pall over anything and everything it's put out since.

I remember you mentioning that before... but I have to disagree. It's been 16 years and the vast majority of visitors either don't have a clue of what you're referring to or have forgotten about it.

For trustworthy information on John Williams, Jeff Eldridge's site has long been the authoritative source.

Sure, with its huge amount of content on Williams works and releases, Jeff's site was a great reference, but concerning news items, it was not more reliable than any other unofficial site. Its seeming semi-officiality was actually the result of not citing any source + replacing a Geocities URL with “johnwilliams.org”.

As for JWFAN's own reliability, I think it has always been way above average compared to most fan sites out there. We've always cited the original sources with no exception, posted as many links as possible on every subject matter, and very, very rarely fallen into the "rumor trap" (yes, it happened in recent weeks, but try to find another "false rumor" spread by this site over the past decade). If something has changed in the last few years, is that we're even more trustworthy as a news source.

Are score samples the only exclusive thing JWFan has ever been privy to?

NO, definitely not

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=929

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=5592

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6871

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6800

As far as exclusive news and articles goes, we'd had way more than those (the current incarnation of the site only reflects about 20% of thousands of news articles posted over the years). Sound clips, track listings, CD artworks, interviews or early reviews are all part of the extensive list of items that JWFan has provided to its readers before anyone else did.

And as redundant as it may sound, the fact is that, thanks to its vast number of erudite members and contributors, JWFan has been the main reference for John Williams fans over the last 15 years, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change in the near future.

[Quintus 5,399]

Agreed and well said.

[Lewya 360]

Which scores have John Williams orchestrated from the past?

[Hlao-roo 389]

Which scores have John Williams orchestrated from the past?

I would be interested in a list of all the films for which a separate orchestrator is not credited.

[Jay 37,369]

Every score he's written recently has a credited orchestrator, but the point is that his sketches are so detailed, the orchestrator is basically a glorified copyist for 90% of the cues (there are always a few cues in a score he gives the orchestrators some wiggle room to put in a few extra things).

I'm sure it wasn't always that way though, but I dunno how we'd find out unless the sketches to all the scores he ever wrote leaked.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Every score he's ever written has a credited orchestrator

No, that's not true. Images, for one. Fitzwilly was also entirely done by him, I believe. Those are just two that come to mind. And I believe Herb Spencer wasn't credited for his work on CE3K, so that's also not true.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Images is certainly JW's finest score.

[Jay 37,369]

Sometimes the film itself has different orchestrators credited than the OST CD, and for older films orchestrators weren't always credited, of course.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Sometimes the film itself has different orchestrators credited than the OST CD, and for older films orchestrators weren't always credited, of course.

I've checked IMDB, and How To Steal A Million, one year before Fitzwilly, has a credited orchestrator. Has nothing to do with a film's age.

Also the actual score from Images confirms that there was no one else involved.

[Jay 37,369]

Cool.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Jay, if you're going to actively correct people when they make invalid statements, you've gotta be able to take it yourself without the passive-aggressive single word responses. It's getting a little ridiculous.

[Jay 37,369]

Huh? I think it's cool that Williams orchestrated Images himself. There's our first example.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's also been pointed out that The Book Thief was most likely done without an orchestrator.

[Jay 37,369]

Nice.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I had this idea that Jane Eyse was also orchestrated by John Williams.

True?

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Ok, I made a list from the 60's till today based on what IMDb says, separated between those in which Williams appears credited or not as an orchestrator, and then those movies which don't have any orchestrators listed -credited or not- which I assume was where he orchestrated them himself or it's lacking information. But anyways....

Listed as orchestrator on IMDb (uncredited or not)

Jane Eyre (TV) (1970) - uncredited

Images (1972) - uncredited

Tom Sawyer (1973) - uncredited

Not listed on IMDb (needs confirmation)

The Plainsman (1966)

Ghostbreakers (TV) (1967)

Fitzwilly (1967)

Sergeant Ryker (1968)

Heidi (TV) (1968)

Daddy's Gone A-Hunting (1969)

The Reivers (1969)

Storia di una Donna (1970)

The Cowboys (1972)

The Screaming Woman (1972)

Pete and Tillie (1972)

The Long Goodbye (1973)

The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing (1973)

Cinderella Liberty (1973)

Conrack (1974)
The Sugarland Express (1974)

Earthquake (1974)

The Eiger Sanction (1975)

Jaws (1975)

Family Plot (1976)
The Missouri Breaks (1976)

The Fury (1978)
Jaws 2 (1978)

Monsignor (1982)
SpaceCamp (1986)

Born on the Fourth of July (1989)

Stanley and Iris (1990)
Rosewood (1997)

The Unfinished Journey (1999)

A Timeless Call (2008)
Lincoln (2012)
The Book Thief (2013)

Feel free to point any corrections, as IMDb tends to not be 100% reliable at times.

[Jilal 569]

Every score he's ever written has a credited orchestrator

No, that's not true. Images, for one. Fitzwilly was also entirely done by him, I believe. Those are just two that come to mind. And I believe Herb Spencer wasn't credited for his work on CE3K, so that's also not true.

Also, most recently, he orchestrated THE BOOK THIEF himself - at the time, JKMS posted a picture of its staff proofreading and engraving his sketches (read: manuscripts):

[Ricard 2,245]

Listed as orchestrator on IMDb (uncredited or not)

Jane Eyre (TV) (1970) - uncredited

Images (1972) - uncredited

Tom Sawyer (1973) - uncredited

Not listed on IMDb (needs confirmation)

The Plainsman (1966)

Ghostbreakers (TV) (1967)

Fitzwilly (1967)

Sergeant Ryker (1968)

Heidi (TV) (1968)

Daddy's Gone A-Hunting (1969)

The Reivers (1969)

Storia di una Donna (1970)

The Cowboys (1972)

The Screaming Woman (1972)

Pete and Tillie (1972)

The Long Goodbye (1973)

The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing (1973)

Cinderella Liberty (1973)

Conrack (1974)

The Sugarland Express (1974)

Earthquake (1974)

The Eiger Sanction (1975)

Jaws (1975)

Family Plot (1976)

The Missouri Breaks (1976)

The Fury (1978)

Jaws 2 (1978)

Monsignor (1982)

SpaceCamp (1986)

Born on the Fourth of July (1989)

Stanley and Iris (1990)

Rosewood (1997)

The Unfinished Journey (1999)

A Timeless Call (2008)

Lincoln (2012)

The Book Thief (2013)

Thanks for the list! I think it'd be safe to assume that Herb Spencer was the orchestrator in most of the titles listed between 1975 and 1990.

We can confirm that he orchestrated Family Plot and SpaceCamp.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Every score he's ever written has a credited orchestrator

No, that's not true. Images, for one. Fitzwilly was also entirely done by him, I believe. Those are just two that come to mind. And I believe Herb Spencer wasn't credited for his work on CE3K, so that's also not true.

Also, most recently, he orchestrated THE BOOK THIEF himself - at the time, JKMS posted a picture of its staff proofreading and engraving his sketches (read: manuscripts):

Yes, I mentioned that above.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Thanks for the list! I think it'd be safe to assume that Herb Spencer was the orchestrator in most of the titles listed between 1975 and 1990.

We can confirm that he orchestrated Family Plot and SpaceCamp.

Hmm. I never really liked the sound of SpaceCamp and parts of The Book Thief could have sounded better. The recordings of those scores could be more to blame though...

[Jilal 569]

They are to blame - those scores would have sounded exactly the same if Williams had chosen to hire one or more orchestrators.

All Williams's orchestrators do is copy the music from his sketches to full score pages, and perhaps fill out a woodwind run here and there (guided by Williams's instructions), which mostly just means transposing the written line an octave up or down, anyway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That is the story we have been told over and over again, word for word throughout the years....

We'll see.

[Jilal 569]

That is the story we have been told over and over again, word for word throughout the years....

We'll see.

Hmm, I agree. It's better to wait until we'll finally get to hear a sample of Williams's own orchestration this fall, after all these years of blatant deception.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Arpy 4,145]

John Williams told me he orchestrates all of his scores and he was very specific that JWFan members don't know shit. He could be lying though.

[Jilal 569]

So this classical guitar bloke has moved into the orchestration business?

[Jay 37,369]

Ok, I made a list from the 60's till today based on what IMDb says, separated between those in which Williams appears credited or not as an orchestrator, and then those movies which don't have any orchestrators listed -credited or not- which I assume was where he orchestrated them himself or it's lacking information. But anyways....

Great, saved me the time of doing the same thing, thank you!

Not listed on IMDb (needs confirmation)

Conrack (1974)

Jaws (1975)

Family Plot (1976)

Out of these:

Jaws was orchestrated by Herb Spencer.

Conrack and Family Plot have no orchestrator's listed on the conductor's sheets, but I don't think either is Williams handwriting? Anyone more familiar with his handwriting want to look at those?

[Jilal 569]

FAMILY PLOT was orchestrated by both Al Woodbury and Herbert Spencer, whereas the one cue from CONRACK (Main Titles) was orchestrated by Williams himself.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

A number of cues from THE PATRIOT were orchestrated by Williams himself.

[Jay 37,369]

Sure, but we're trying to figure out a list of scores that Williams orchestrated 100% of the material himself. There are loads of scores that were partially orchestrated by him, and partially by others.

[Datameister 2,044]

As I recall, a few cues in TOD were orchestrated by Williams. Same goes for "Olympic Fanfare and Theme", and most or all of his concert works.

[Jay 37,369]

Sure, but we're trying to figure out a list of scores that Williams orchestrated 100% of the material himself. There are loads of scores that were partially orchestrated by him, and partially by others.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Not many are partially orchestrated by Williams. Those are rarities.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sure, but we're trying to figure out a list of scores that Williams orchestrated 100% of the material himself. There are loads of scores that were partially orchestrated by him, and partially by others.

[mstrox 6,651]

Supe, bat we've troing go fignre but I lust if scares thot Williems orchostrated 160% on tee materiol hamself. These ore lodes if shores phat wore purtially orchestroted bi ham, end portially my otters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont get it?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Sure, but we're trying to figure out a list of posts that Stefan 100% didn't get. There are loads of posts that were partially gotten by him, and partially by others.

[aj_vader 534]

Didn't Conrad Pope once say something along the lines of "Being an orchestrator for John Williams is more of a copyist's job than an orchestrator".

[Jay 37,369]

Yep.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We shall see.