TownerFan 4,983 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Isn't that kind of free but supportive creative environment in which a composer would thrive in? It is not like Abrams just said Williams "Just do your thing." without having those spotting sessions and discussing the music with him first. I think the suggestion to "Just do you thing." came afterwards meaning there would not be continual micromanaging of his work like with most modern film productions. It is a show of trust, not of lax management on Abrams' past I think.Of course it's a matter of trust, I really don't know how anyone could think anything else. It's also exactly the way Williams has always worked with Spielberg and Lucas (and several other directors), but also how Abrams works usually with Giacchino.The only big difference here is that JW isn't doing any mock-ups/previews other than playing the themes on the piano, so it's surely a big act of trust what Abrams is giving him... but, come on, he's working with the greatest film composer ever, how he couldn't trust him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 STAR WARS, SCHMAR WARS.....great to see him mentioning CINDERELLA LIBERTY. Oh, how I wish we'd get an extended interview that went deeper into his past. Paul Williams singing John Williams: Toots and John Williams: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 STAR WARS, SCHMAR WARS..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Because people don't write letters any more.Brian Tyler on Star Wars Episode XIV: "It's like adding a Tweet to a Storify." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I posted when I saw Jason's post on pg 1, and then just saw your post on pg 2 - sorry. Edited! Because people don't write letters any more.Brian Tyler on Star Wars Episode XIV: "It's like adding a Tweet to a Storify."TM 2015 BloodBoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 People seem to be oversimplifying the process here based on one partial quote from Williams. It's not like JJ just strolled by his office and said, in passing, "just do your thing buddy!" and walked off, never to be seen again. They've had spotting sessions, they've held meetings, Williams has played the music for JJ on piano where he invariably has given feedback, etc. My take on the full quote is that he likens the process of working with Abrams to Lucas in that the actual writing process is done with freedom, but before that happens they still have detailed discussions about the emotional content and utility of the music within the movie. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Exactly. I really don't know how one could think otherwise than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I fear that Williams will reference the famous themes (Luke, leia, imperial march) and forgot about the others. Because he thinks he knows the music..but does not listen to his scores ever...I mean, han solo and the princess should be used. And he may end using leia's for a scene for the two characters.The omision of luke and leia at the "birth of the twins" in episode III is an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The omision of luke and leia at the "birth of the twins" in episode III is an example.The theme was a bit mature for that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The omision of luke and leia at the "birth of the twins" in episode III is an example.The theme was a bit mature for that situation. Lucas is quite articulate on themes he wants to hear, at least based on the Making of RotS book passages dealing with the spotting sessions. I wonder if this was JW "doing his thing" or Lucas giving him notes to approach the scene non-thematically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I wonder if CINDERELLA LIBERTY is about as obscure as Williams can get in terms of memory (it isn't THAT obscure -- the score was Oscar-nominated, after all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Luke and Leia represents, I think, a further stage of their shared story. I understand its omission in ROTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 To me it is a revelation theme. The characters even are talking about their mother. Fitting moment to use in EPIII if there ever was one.So if it had been used in EpIII, or just hinted and then reprised fully in ROTJ, it would have made much sense.I dont mind the use of Luke/Leia's themes in the finales, as they are sepparated.But the athematical harry potter music for the birth was a let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I wonder if CINDERELLA LIBERTY is about as obscure as Williams can get in terms of memory (it isn't THAT obscure -- the score was Oscar-nominated, after all).At least he still remembers Paul Williams is not related to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 But the athematical harry potter music for the birth was a let down.It's the closest to the original concept of Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 As in, it has some basis in a classical piece, But is completely original at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here's what I think.I think JJ and Williams watched the movie together, discussed the music, etc. And now Williams is left to his own devices, in the sense that JJ isn't checking in on him every day. Because he doesn't need to, because he truly does trust him. And I think this score Williams is writing is a good one, one that will be appropriate for the film, and please JJ, and please us die hard fans, and please general audiences. And it is this score that will be recorded starting in June.However.I fear that after that, as the release date of the film draws near, the Disney execs will start butting their heads in more. Each of them having to have some say so they can say they contributed to the project. Asking for this sequence to be tightened up, this sequence to be edited differently, etc. Then the execs will start worrying about the music itself too. Asking for a version of a cue with Classic Theme A here, a revision of a cue using Classic Theme B there. Etc. Because of all this stuff, new music will be recorded - inserts, revised cues, alternates. Maybe even stingers and non-scene-specific theme drops. We'll end up with neither the film nor OST showcasing well the original score that Williams intended before the interferance, and original versions of cues will be unreleased gems until the expanded CDs come out in 35 years.That's my fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Nice fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here's what I think.I think JJ and Williams watched the movie together, discussed the music, etc. And now Williams is left to his own devices, in the sense that JJ isn't checking in on him every day. Because he doesn't need to, because he truly does trust him. And I think this score Williams is writing is a good one, one that will be appropriate for the film, and please JJ, and please us die hard fans, and please general audiences. And it is this score that will be recorded starting in June.That's usually what Lucas did with Williams. They spotted the film and then the director left JW on his own devices and then they heard the score at the sessions and Lucas either asked for rewrites, or in the case of Prequels cut and pasted the living day lights out of the score(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Nice fear Each man hides a secret pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Here's what I think.I think JJ and Williams watched the movie together, discussed the music, etc. And now Williams is left to his own devices, in the sense that JJ isn't checking in on him every day. Because he doesn't need to, because he truly does trust him. And I think this score Williams is writing is a good one, one that will be appropriate for the film, and please JJ, and please us die hard fans, and please general audiences. And it is this score that will be recorded starting in June.That's usually what Lucas did with Williams. They spotted the film and then the director left JW on his own devices and then they heard the score at the sessions and Lucas either asked for rewrites, or in the case of Prequels cut and pasted the living day lights out of the score(s).Lucas isn't really a great director, so his butchering of the prequels and their music is not a surprise. It's what you'd expect from a bad director who has 100% input and financial control over the final product. Directing was never Lucas' strong point.Abrams is a better filmmaker, and everything we're hearing is that Disney is loving what they're seeing. I think Jay's fear sounds familiar to all of us, but I think Disney gives him some space and creative control, and the music will come out sounding better and working better in the film than we've been used to hearing from Star Wars in a long time.Maybe I'm naïve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It does seem that Williams and JJ left to their own devices would come up with a kickass film and score.I just worry about the influence of the executives protecting their $4 billion purchase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It does seem that Williams and JJ left to their own devices would come up with a kickass film and score.I just worry about the influence of the executives protecting their $4 billion purchaseThe Mouse will always get his man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I think the main producer pressure in, for instance, The Avengers: Age of Ultron, is Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige rather than Disney.The main producer pressure in this would likely be Lucasfilm/Kathleen Kennedy, and she seems extremely hands-on at this point already, to the point that she wouldn't likely see a late cut and say "what the heck, we need to change this." They're working pretty hard to set the tone for what they want Star Wars to be from this point forward. I think we'll see more last-minute changes and pressures if the movies start to underperform, or maybe 5-10 movies down the line, when the brass is a little less hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I agree. The fact that Kennedy is the one who has the "scary exec" role in this situation is really encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Yup, agreed. Kennedy doesn't worry me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 And they're recording over a long period of time in various sessions, so there will be no need to use micro edits or cut the music, as they will have plently of time and opportunity to get the music exactly right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Come on now, do you really think all the music in the final cut of hte film will be purely exactly what Williams recorded with no microedits at all?When was the last time that was the case for ANY Hollywood tentpole picture?Granted Star Trek Into Darkness's score isn't edited that bad, but Star Trek 09's score is hacked up and moved around throughout the whole picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I know, but I'm sure this won't be another TPM situation. Were the other scores for JJ's movies recorded over similar periods of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Of course not - hardly any scores outside of the original LOTR trilogy had this many recording sessions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 So JW will be recording music only for sequences that are completely finished and locked. So more reason for the music to be exactly what the director wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I wonder if CINDERELLA LIBERTY is about as obscure as Williams can get in terms of memory (it isn't THAT obscure -- the score was Oscar-nominated, after all).Oh come on now. It's just that he doesn't give interviews that often and he's rarely ever asked about anything before 1975. There was that USC interview from 2005 where he talked about his schooling and auditioning and he had a very sharp recollection of all of that. He remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 So JW will be recording music only for sequences that are completely finished and locked. So more reason for the music to be exactly what the director wantsThe director - yes! I'm worried about executive tinkering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 All scores go through the editing process to conform them to the picture. So more extensive than others. Let's hope there won't be too many notes from the executive tinkerers. Hopefully Kathleen Kennedy can keep them away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,013 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I mean, what kind of notes do you give Williams on Star Wars, anyway? I remember Don Davis saying something about mockups and how John Williams is the only composer who is never asked to do it. And he also mentioned that "they'd have to be idiots to ask John Williams for demos".Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 But didn't they had to do mock-ups for Tintin? For Peter Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I can't imagine Abrams is finding much criticism on a musical level and I highly doubt he's rejected any themes that Williams has presented. I figure his comments are probably basic stuff like "This moment could be sadder" or "This could be more hopeful" or "This could be emphasized more"....Williams' instincts are notoriously perceptive but (probably ) not 100% accurate all the time and there are things he can't always account for like a change that's been made in editing or a sudden thought Abrams has while listening.Once the film's out, though, I would be curious to know if they were generally in agreement the whole way through or if there were any notable disagreements that they had to resolve. And who persuaded who. Those stories are always interesting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gkgyver 1,645 Posted May 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2015 Abrams would sweat a lot more over editing Williams' music than Jackson would, that's for damn sure.It would probably give him nightmares, and he'd send Johnny a card. Cerebral Cortex, crumbs and mrbellamy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Williams' instincts are notoriously perceptive but (probably ) not 100% accurate all the time and there are things he can't always account for like a change that's been made in editing or a sudden thought Abrams has while listening.Binary Sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Williams' instincts are notoriously perceptive but (probably ) not 100% accurate all the time and there are things he can't always account for like a change that's been made in editing or a sudden thought Abrams has while listening.Binary Sunset.There are revisions to a film score and then there is just shredding a film score in the post production. Revisions are the normal part of the film scoring collaboration and that example above is one where ol' George had the right instinct and feel of what would work for the scene. Given the longer recording period of the music over several months JW will have better chances of revising and rewriting required passages so there might not be much need to rely on the copy-pasting tracking. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaloCoyoacan 46 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 So, dream away was composed by John Williams? Why is it not listed on the page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 So, dream away was composed by John Williams? Why is it not listed on the page?Yes the song is based on John Williams' love theme for the film The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Who wouldn't love cat dancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I wonder if CINDERELLA LIBERTY is about as obscure as Williams can get in terms of memory (it isn't THAT obscure -- the score was Oscar-nominated, after all).Oh come on now. It's just that he doesn't give interviews that often and he's rarely ever asked about anything before 1975. There was that USC interview from 2005 where he talked about his schooling and auditioning and he had a very sharp recollection of all of that. He remembers.There's an interview from the 90s where JW mentions Because They're Young (and incorrectly credits it as his first ever film score). But he may have forgotten about it by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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