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Star Trek Beyond SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread


Jay
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Don't open this thread again if you don't want to be spoiled!

 

 

 

 

If you've seen the film or otherwise don't care about spoilers, post away!

 

 

 

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its sad to think that we now know how Spock Prime canonically dies

 

still a better sendoff than Kirk

 

also minor thing I liked was Krall not redeeming himself even when I thought he would

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Cut and paste from the other thread.

 

 

 

Star Trek Beyond

 

Ruminations.....

 

The film starts with a whole bunch of logo's and no titles at all. Right into a silly mission where Kirk tries to negotiate a truce with some very little aliens.

Right after that we see that Chris Pine has really grown into the role, he looks more seasoned now. No longer the brash kid from 09. He is a very good Kirk.

Same for Quinto actually. He will never replace Nimoy, and as Spock doesnt have the voice of his illustrious predecessor. But he's quietly make it his own. There are a few moments in the film that really do honor Nimoy and are a better final tribute then the meaningless cameo in Darkness.

 

Kark Urban is the best part of this film. He's outstanding as Bones. And the film wisely partner him with Spock for most of it. Giving some genuinly good Spovck/Bones moments, ranging from moving to incredible funny.

When Spock suggests to use the sensors to track a rare Vulcan mineral that's present in the necklace he gave Uhura and Bones comments "You gave your girlfriend a tracker?" That got some big laughs, as did the call back to it later on.

 

That's the films best asset. It's very funny, and warm, and occasionally moving, and silly (who would have thunk that having the Beastie Boys in Star trek would actually work?)

 

The plot is actually quite decent. The Enterprise goes on a rescue mission and gets hacks to bits by millions of drones. Most of the crew gets taken prisoner by an alien called Krall.

 

Krall is a good example of a character and performance that doesnt seem to work at all at first, but the story slowly reveals layers about the character, and suddenly it does. In the end though it's still a Khan like revenge plot of sorts. Which is something this film franchise just cant seem to get away from. But at least the setting is interesting and rather original.

 

There are tons of references to Star Trek in general. The Enterprise's saucer section is seen burning up in the atmosphere like in II, and crashing into the ground like in Generations. The Franklin's design resembles the Starfleet ships from Enterprise from the outside. But the inside looks a bit more like sets from the early TOS films.

 

There are some unlikely bits which are with noting. Krall and 2 or 3 others are apparently able to wield technology powerful enough to destroy Starships and a huge starbase with millions of people?

 

Jaylah is a really fun character. But we are expected to believe that she more or less fixed up the crashed Franklin (or her house, as she calls it) to such an extent that it can actually fly into outer space again?

 

Like in TFA it seems starships can crash into rocks and not have a scratch on them.

 

There are aspects of the plot that eluded me. Like the exact origin of the artifact that can apparently kill millions. It's a story told on the move and with as little exposition as possible and I admire that. But I did lose a few things I guess.

 

I dont know if it was like this on the previous two, but in the credits the main cast is listed alphabetically, meaning lead actor Chris Pine is actually the third credited. This might have been done so Anton Yelchin is the last of the regulars to be listed. The CGI filled credits fade to a commemoration to Leonard Nimoy and then to Anton. Which again is quite moving.

 

Really really good fun, and I'll see it again soon. The first time since 1995 I will watch a star Trek film more then once during it's original run.

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, MedigoScan said:

its sad to think that we now know how Spock Prime canonically dies

 

still a better sendoff than Kirk

 

The way it was done was very effective and moving.

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Was the giant green space hand a reference to some existing Star Trek thing? I noticed it in the end credits as well as the mention of it in the film.

 

Stefan the cast has always been listed alphabetically 

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Yes, you will not like this one probably.  It has some strengths the other ones didn't have, but to me it ultimately is still a bunch of fine actors unsuccessfully trying to reproduce the unreproducible chemistry of the original cast.

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18 minutes ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

If I didn't like the first two, will I still not like this one?

 

You will not like this film.

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I might see this and Female Ghostbusters back to back tomorrow. God, can you imagine how I'll be after that? Hey, at least I'll be in air conditioning in this horrible heat wave, unless they pipe that directly to John Williams' mansion so he can lounge around in pants and turtleneck sweaters in late July in southern California.

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I realized something: I am pretty sure the film makes no references to the events of STID at all!

You could watch this film right after ST09 and not miss a thing at all.

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Jaylah was the best part of the movie.  Must immediately look up the actress and see what else she's done

 

Scotty not hugging his little friend made no sense

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

I realized something: I am pretty sure the film makes no references to the events of STID at all!

You could watch this film right after ST09 and not miss a thing at all.

 

Well, the Enterprise bears the refit seen at the end of Into Darkness. Given you clearly see the configuration of the Enterprise at the end of 2009 is different, it would raise questions as to where these changes came from and why.

 

Speaking of which, the last film introduced quite a few changes to the Constitution Class (new impluse engine, altered nacelle struts and nacelle fins). Does the Enterprise-A bear any further (visible) changes?

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

I realized something: I am pretty sure the film makes no references to the events of STID at all!

You could watch this film right after ST09 and not miss a thing at all.

 

Well the concept of the 5 year mission they are on was started in Into Darkness, but otherwise you are right. 

 

As a non-Trekkie Jason, did you enjoy it?

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6 hours ago, Jay said:

Jaylah was the best part of the movie.  Must immediately look up the actress and see what else she's done

 

Fun character. Very much in the mold of characters like Rey, Furiosa, Deanerys etc. 

More interested in survival rather then being either a love-interest or a sex-pot.

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

Jaylah was the best part of the movie.  Must immediately look up the actress and see what else she's done

 

I also enjoyed her character and backstory quite a bit.  I see the only major movie Sofia Boutella's been in before this is Kingsman, which I still need to get around to watching.  She is playing the character "Mummy" in the Tom Cruise reboot next year which could mean...just about anything really.

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Yea she was cool in Kingsman.

 

Yea it was a fun movie. Better summer popcorn movie than most comic book movies these days.  

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Indeed, lots of great visual candy and I enjoy Giacchino's score.  The character moments never felt true to me despite liking the actors themselves and, like I said above, Krall was just a weak villain whose motivation never made a lick of sense to me.

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For me it was the character moments that actually made the movie. And I'm still surprised they found a cast that is able to not eclipse, but more then adequatly replace the original TOS cast. Say what you want about JJ, but he casts very well.

 

The villian could have been more interested if they didnt keep the big reveal untill so very late in the movie. I wonder if this was JJ's influence as a producer on this film. Since he seems to enjoy these supposedly dramatic plot twists. I guess it worked slightly better then John Harrison's "My name is Khan" moment though.

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Yeah it was a pretty obvious twist as soon as they introduced the Franklin.  The parallels to the villains in Insurrection are kind of funny, down to disfiguring their bodies to both extend life and so the audience doesn't immediately connect the bad guys to the heroes.

 

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons this crew has never completely worked for me is that they never had a chance to develop a unique chemistry on a TV show whereas every previous movie cast had hundreds of hours together!

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2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Also, that same TOS cast didnt really work at all in Star Trek: TMP.

 

Well that's more down to script weakness than the actors.  They decided to go for such a reserved, somber tone with that movie whereas the sequels emphasized the warmth that would come from their longtime friendships.  Clearly Pegg and the other writer were going for that familiarity and warmth with this one and I'm not saying it never works.  All the stuff with Bones and Spock was really good.

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9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Well that's more down to script weakness than the actors. 

 

It's partially the actors too. Shatner especially never quite find the right tone. Nimoy's Spock seems to lacks the charisma he once had, making him a dull, cold fish. Only DeForestis good, but he doesnt have the other two to work with here.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Nimoy's Spock seems to lacks the charisma he once had, making him a dull, cold fish.

 

Wasn't it part of the script that Spock was newly re-purged of emotions after some Vulcan ritual?

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Yeah! The crew picture from the end! I loved that.  I think it's from Final Frontier maybe?  Gotta be either 5 or 6 by their age.

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14 hours ago, Stefancos said:

For me it was the character moments that actually made the movie. And I'm still surprised they found a cast that is able to not eclipse, but more then adequatly replace the original TOS cast. Say what you want about JJ, but he casts very well.

 

Can't you see what is happening to you? You're becoming an apologist for them. A defender of evil. What will it take to make you act, Stefan? To stop accepting them and start fighting back?

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8 hours ago, MedigoScan said:

also Sulu is still on the enterprise

 

Right, and for the sake of a photo, he couldn't beam over or just walk from one set to the next. 

 

It's V because of Shatner's hair and the bright boring appearance of the bridge set.

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Just got back from seeing it. Love it! The new Enterprise is NCC-1701-A was spoiled for me, but I'm surprised it did not diminish from the reveal (which plays over "To Boldly Go")

 

Did they retcon the size of the Enterprise in the film? The 2009 version was supposed to be 725M (though no solid figure has ever been confirmed, the USS Vengeance is 'twice the size' at 1400M, and confusing matters about the size is that they shortened the nacelles of the Enterprise in Beyond), yet in Beyond the scale of it when in the Yorktown's docks suggest it's much closer to the TOS Enterprise's size, further bolstered by the fact the USS Franklin, which is supposed to be less than 200M, still takes up a fair bit of space in those docks. which appear to be the same size throughout. I'm guessing Enterprise-A is likely to be the 'correct' size. Speaking of Enterprise-A, I was too awed by its reveal to notice every detail, but here are some observations:

 

-The impulse deck is the same as the 2009 Enterprise.

-The nacelle struts have been straightened and the nacelles are properly spaced.

-The NCC-1701-A decal sits underneath the saucer in the same position as it does in the TMP refit - the previous Enterprise had no decals under the saucer, only under the secondary hull (which got removed in STID)

-The colour scheme of the nacelles and impulse engines matches the 2009 version. I suspect they kept it this way because it's the Enterprise-A and not the original Enterprise.

-The nacelles have been changed - they seem to be closer to the TOS nacelles. Couldn't really get a good look at them. The bussard collectors are not hooded any more.

-The engineering hull's taper resembles that of the Excelsior and NX-01 refit.

-The neck of the ship has been placed like it is in the TMP refit.

 

All in all, it looks like a hybrid of 2009, TOS and TMP, with definite leanings towards TOS more than the 2009 design.

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We are going to need one. The Enterprise's size has been chopped and changed. I figured with the Vengeance being a fixed size, it would have been obious which size was correct, but apparently not.

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On 7/21/2016 at 9:20 PM, Jay said:

Scotty not hugging his little friend made no sense

 

Wasn't it because he had that cold, which was how he was able to open that door to free everyone when they were captured? Or maybe I saw that scene wrong.

 

Btw, REALLY enjoyed this film. Wasn't expecting much. I did not grow up on Star Trek like a lot of people here did (Star Wars instead) and honestly Trek 09 got me into the older films, and have found an appreciation for them. Into Darkness was okay to me, but I can see why people had issues with it. This one, however, is simply a lot of fun. Not as good as Trek 09, but definitely a step in the right direction again. Can't wait for the next one.

 

Giacchino's score for this is probably the weakest of the three, but it isn't bad. I think I'll appreciate it more in a deluxe or sessions release.

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2 minutes ago, scallenger said:

 

Wasn't it because he had that cold, which was how he was able to open that door to free everyone when they were captured? Or maybe I saw that scene wrong.

 

Yeah, Keenser had the acidic sneezing problem. it was mentioned earlier in the film too.

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Really enjoyed it. Equally funny and touching and exciting. Some nice action glory-shots that worked well in 3D, but the middle portion of the film was too dark with the 3D I thought. Jaylah was great. Her and Scotty was a treat to watch, as was Spock and Bones. Some nice action with Kirk and Chekov too.

 

Some call backs to multiple trek series and films with some plot points, like Elba and his ageing deformity thing and the saucer detatched and crashing. Decent idea to have the enemy as a swarm of ships too.

 

I loved the Nemoy Spock references. Quinto learning of his death was very well done, as was looking through his personal possessions and Giacchino giving a couple of lovely moments for his Spock theme to sound. And his score in general works very well with the film as usual, with the 5 year mission theme sounding beautiful over the shots of Yorktown and at the end on piano for Kirks birthday party. And the choir version of his main theme as Kirk watched the enterprise in ruins from his escape pod.

 

All in all I really enjoyed it. Equally really to the other two, but Beyond was more of the adventurous side of Star Trek, which was welcomed after the last two earth central films. I'm glad that Elba's villain was given a twist of why he was so insane and lost, otherwise he would have been a disposable villain that doesn't really get remembered in the long run, but in the final act of his desperate plan and reveal of his true identity made his villain more important.

 

Also rather randomly, I have to say I loved the moment when Kirk was doing his captains log at the beginning, and said that life on the enterprise was becoming a little episodic. Nice little literal nod to the series without winking at the camera.

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On 7/22/2016 at 7:42 AM, Stefancos said:

Well naturally. But I'm still amazed how well they work regardless of that.

Also, that same TOS cast didnt really work at all in Star Trek: TMP.

 

The cast didn't really get along.  Shatner was very difficult as I'm sure you know.  Did you see the interview with Shatner and Koenig where Koenig explains why they disliked him as a person and it peaked during TMP.

 

Regarding STB, I liked it.  Lots of fun and good energy, humor, and nostalgia.  I could have used a better motivation for the villain but ultimately, it seems there are only really two or three great villainy motivations and this was at least an interesting attempted variation.  I am a sucker for the slow motion Enterprise destruction scenes but in this one, Kirk was a smarter captain than usual sensing the alien asking for help was in on the trap.  I too am glad Krall didn't end with redemption, he didn't quite earn it in a way that would make sense.  I also enjoyed Giacchino's score.  I felt there were a few nods to TMP score and some interesting musical choices. 

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She did a voice in Destiny.  I knew it from the first word she spoke.

 

I thought this movie was fine.  It seems to me the best of the three, or at least on par with the first.  I didn't know anything going in, so I got my hopes up during a few scenes that they really were doing some kind of proto-Borg thing.  But despite several things seemingly pointing in that direction, it was sort of a boring villain - as usual.  Not a big deal though.

 

The score I feel is definitely the best of the three.  There were both Horner and Goldsmith nods, done cleverly and not crappily.  And there was a fair bit of interesting underscore missing from the album.

 

I think it probably is the most Star Trek of these new films, they weren't lying about that.  It's still not there.  There are too many cliched one-liners that are really out of character for the people speaking them and the franchise itself.  And Spock was never written to sound so forcibly brainy as he is in these.  But I think they're starting to get things right.

 

The photograph of the original cast at the end made me tear up a little.

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I still don't get the villains motivations. I kinda went, "that's it?"

 

At least a better Villain plot would have been to have Baddy see himself in shard of glass, moment of humanity, tear up, and sacrifice himself to undo the havoc he wrought.

 

 

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