Howard Shore's THE LORD OF THE RINGS

[Edmilson 7,466]

On 06/09/2023 at 3:03 PM, enderdrag64 said:

It would be great to get the theatrical versions of cues too instead of just the extended edition versions

The theatrical version for The Ring Goes South, without the Gilran's Memorial extension, is one of my top holy grails ever.

[Faleel 5,358]

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The theatrical version for The Ring Goes South, without the Gilran's Memorial extension, is one of my top holy grails ever.

That's pretty much the CR + OST.

 

Theatrical version of Forest of Ithilien is mine

[Jay 37,370]

30 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The theatrical version for The Ring Goes South, without the Gilran's Memorial extension, is one of my top holy grails ever.

 

It's been available on CD since 2001.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Maybe he only buys soundtracks on cassette.

[Edmilson 7,466]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

 

It's been available on CD since 2001.

No, it isn't. The OST version microedits a part from the Bilbo's Gifts scene, especifically the part where Bilbo spooks Frodo. The version I want is the complete Bilbo's Gifts followed by The Ring Goes South, without the Gilraen's Memorial between these two cues, like in the CR.

[Score 770]

20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

No, it isn't. The OST version microedits a part from the Bilbo's Gifts scene, especifically the part where Bilbo spooks Frodo. The version I want is the complete Bilbo's Gifts followed by The Ring Goes South, without the Gilraen's Memorial between these two cues, like in the CR.

 

From a partial list of original cue names that was given in this forum some time ago, I reconstructed that the track "Gilraen's Memorial" from the CR should be composed as follows:

 

0:00-1:09   Gilraen's Song

1:09-2:40   Bilbo's Gifts

2:40-3:46  The Departure of the Fellowship

3:46-end   The Ring Goes South

 

So, I believe you mean that you would like a track with "Bilbo's Gifts" following into "The Ring Goes South", without "The Departure of the Fellowship". Is that right?

 

 

 

[Jay 37,370]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

No, it isn't. The OST version microedits a part from the Bilbo's Gifts scene, especifically the part where Bilbo spooks Frodo. The version I want is the complete Bilbo's Gifts followed by The Ring Goes South, without the Gilraen's Memorial between these two cues, like in the CR.

 

The scene with Elrond and Aragorn at the statue of his mother (Gilraen) happens BEFORE the scene with Bilbo and Frodo.  The cue for it (Gilraen's Memorial) is 0:00-1:08 in the CR track.

 

Then the CR track has "Bilbo's Gifts" from 1:08-2:40, the EE "Departure of the Fellowship" cue from 2:40-3:46, and finally the "Ring Goes South" from 3:46-end.

 

The OST track meanwhile has an edited down version of "Bilbo's Gifts" from 0:00-0:46, and then the "Ring Goes South" cue from 0:46-end.

 

To create the theatrical version (IE, undo the edit inside the OST track), all you have to do is CR track 1:08-2:03 -> OST track 0:18-end.

 

Like this:

 

 

[Faleel 5,358]

IIRC the only theatrical versions we don't have in decent quality (via games, and menus):

 

Doors of Durin

Forests of Ithilien (Faramir Shows up)

Marshaling at Dunharrow (shorter version of the Merry, Eowyn and Eomer conversation)

[Jay 37,370]

We also don't have all of the Council Of Elrond piece that got replaced by an EE insert (and we can't even hear it in the theatrical film because it was partially dialed out)

[Faleel 5,358]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

We also don't have all of the Council Of Elrond piece that got replaced by an EE insert (and we can't even hear it in the theatrical film because it was partially dialed out)

Though IIRC the part we don't have is pretty much identical to the CR track

[Jay 37,370]

Also I can't recall off the top of my head if there is more to the theatrical version of the arrival of Lothlorien than appears in the OST track

[Faleel 5,358]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Also I can't recall off the top of my head if there is more to the theatrical version of the arrival of Lothlorien than appears in the OST track

There is, some sustained string material, I forgot about that!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

On 07/09/2023 at 5:07 AM, Jay said:

 

Have you noticed yet that the music just before Aragorn throws the torch at the last Ringwraith is tracked in from earlier in the cue? 

 

The actual music Shore wrote for it showed up in a video game. 

 

I had no idea and it's not listed in Signals' breakdown either!

[Jay 37,370]

He does mention it:

 

On 24/11/2013 at 9:11 PM, Signals said:

The Caverns of Isengard

0:44 has music tracked from earlier in the track,

 

Here's his restore video for is:

 

On 04/09/2013 at 11:11 AM, Signals said:

The Caverns of Isengard - TTT Game

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Oh my bad. I was looking at the wrong cue.

 

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

He does mention it:

 

Here's his restore video for is:

 

 

I don't have access to any of those videos, but at least I know which part is tracked.

[Jay 37,370]

You don't need him to give you specific access to it.  You just need to log into your gmail/google account, that's all.

 

Once you're logged in in your browser session, every video will just play

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

You don't need him to give you specific access to it.  You just need to log into your gmail/google account, that's all.

 

Once you're logged in in your browser session, every video will just play

 

I am logged in. It says so every time I click one of these links. "You're signed in as [username]." I have this problem across browsers and both with and without a VPN enabled.

 

[Jay 37,370]

Weird!

 

For me, I can just click any of his links it takes me right to the video and I can just click play.  That's it.  I never had to request any permissions.

 

If I open an incognito window and click his links, it tells me to log in, so that's why I assumed it had to do with being logged into your google account in your browser.

 

Hmm.  I'm stumped.

[Faleel 5,358]

I might have to redo the links.

 

(I didn't see any messages trequesting access)

 

FOTR restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CJ5SMZNZzD2gNSk_aergJ1SE7yZGHTZy?usp=sharing

 

TTT restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19xSP4O_C7U31KV3GLkd9JxQJCbr0dm0v?usp=drive_link

 

ROTK restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OCgDoG0rdXc1M2BLBcQFopXL0-MeYxpu?usp=drive_link

 

[Jay 37,370]

7 minutes ago, Signals said:

I might have to redo the links.

 

(I didn't see any messages trequesting access)

 

I dunno man.  In my private/incognito window, I clicked your link, it asked me to log into google.  I did so, and then I could watch your video in my private window right away.  That was it.

 

I can't understand why anything would be different for me compared to AA Ron.  Maybe he needs to specifically use Google Drive in that google account once first?

[Faleel 5,358]

Maybe our accounts are "linked"/recognized somehow, with all the times accessing your spreadsheets, or one of my files or something

[Jay 37,370]

8 minutes ago, Signals said:

FOTR restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CJ5SMZNZzD2gNSk_aergJ1SE7yZGHTZy?usp=sharing

 

TTT restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19xSP4O_C7U31KV3GLkd9JxQJCbr0dm0v?usp=drive_link

 

ROTK restored folder:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OCgDoG0rdXc1M2BLBcQFopXL0-MeYxpu?usp=drive_link

 

 

Those folder links work in an incognito window without being logged in at all!

[Faleel 5,358]

Yeah, Google updated some things (privacy/security policy related probably) since I made my posts.

 

Here is a new link for everything Middle-Earth (LOTR, Hobbit) including unreleased music examples, restores, edit guesses etc.:

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxQSwI5aPja9MmZjVHJFSDNQeU0?resourcekey=0-eRlPdHJ3XagQBmJWhG27eQ&usp=drive_link

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

The new links work perfectly for me, thanks so much!

 

I've used Google Drive for years, so I've no idea what the issue was.

[Gollum Cat 24]

20 hours ago, Jay said:

Yeah

Who's got it? @Signals?

[Jay 37,370]

What do you mean? You asked if anybody had made fan edits of FOTR's score. I'm sure many people have. I certainly have. I love this score, and the CR release has many flaws. 

[Gollum Cat 24]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

What do you mean? You asked if anybody had made fan edits of FOTR's score. I'm sure many people have. I certainly have. I love this score, and the CR release has many flaws. 

I'm curious if anybody's got an edit of the FOTR CR that straightens things out, and you said yes. I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that there was a link for it, floating around somewhere, free for the asking like many things here.

[Faleel 5,358]

8 minutes ago, Gollum Cat said:

I'm curious if anybody's got an edit of the FOTR CR that straightens things out, and you said yes. I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that there was a link for it, floating around somewhere, free for the asking like many things here.

I sent you mine last September.

[Gollum Cat 24]

11 minutes ago, Signals said:

I sent you mine last September.

You're absolutely right. I completely forgot.

[Alex Shore 83]

Quick Question about the Lord of the Rings LIVE in Concert, is there any type of official merchandaising available, like t-shirts something like that?

[TolkienSS 407]

For a future release, I also want the Live To Projection additional cues not heard anywhere else.

[Trope 527]

Is there any chance that the complete recordings could ever be released on CD again in the future? I was considering picking them up, and then I saw the prices on Ebay and Discogs... Surely such popular and successful scores like these should never be out of print.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Probably a better chance if they were just standard jewel case releases. The boxes were nice as a collector thing but they don't seem sustainable as a long term in-print thing. At least they're all on digital and streaming services now.

[Jim Ware 526]

I suspect that any future physical release would be a small run licensed to Mondo or similar. If some of the assembly and mixing issues could be addressed at the same time - all three have a few issues - that would be great.

[Faleel 5,358]

32 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

I suspect that any future physical release would be a small run licensed to Mondo or similar. If some of the assembly and mixing issues could be addressed at the same time - all three have a few issues - that would be great.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Given the FotR CR came out in 2005 (18 years ago) and how many reissues and re-expansions some scores have gotten, it strikes me as completely reasonable for a reassembly of all three

 

The only thing that really bothers me about TTT and RotK is not having theatrical versions of some cues (or only having them from a videogame, i.e. compressed). FotR strikes me as the only one that needs a partial rebuild to restore the intended score.

 

And of course all three need cast performances removing where they've over score, and the usual alternates for all three.

 

I could easily live with all that being digital only.

[enderdrag64 624]

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Given the FotR CR came out in 2005 (18 years ago) and how many reissues and re-expansions some scores have gotten, it strikes me as completely reasonable for a reassembly of all three

 

The only thing that really bothers me about TTT and RotK is not having theatrical versions of some cues (or only having them from a videogame, i.e. compressed). FotR strikes me as the only one that needs a partial rebuild to restore the intended score.

 

And of course all three need cast performances removing where they've over score, and the usual alternates for all three.

 

I could easily live with all that being digital only.

I agree with all of this, I'd also be in favor of keeping separate cues separate instead of editing them into 8min+ long tracks.

[Chen G. 3,950]

Removing cast performances over the music...

 

I mean, that's like saying you want to remove the string line to better hear what the woodwinds are doing underneath, or whatever...

 

These are albums of the music of The Lord of the Rings. Ergo, if its music, and its in The Lord of the Rings, it belongs on there. There are still contributions from Plan 9 and Vigo Mortensen and others that we're missing!

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Removing cast performances over the music...

 

You don't like karaoke?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

50 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Removing cast performances over the music...

 

I mean, that's like saying you want to remove the string line to better hear what the woodwinds are doing underneath, or whatever...

 

These are albums of the music of The Lord of the Rings. Ergo, if its music, and its in The Lord of the Rings, it belongs on there. There are still contributions from Plan 9 and Vigo Mortensen and others that we're missing!

 

I don't understand what's controversial about this. We're not talking about actual songs with a specific underscore and vocal, such as Houses of Healing.

 

This is about tracks such as the opening of Bag End or (worse) Keep It Secret where you have Gandalf or Bilbo doing some ditty in the background which is clearly a part of the diegetic sound, then you have Shore's cue as a separate entity. Same for Two Towers where Eowyn 'sings' during that funeral scene. The performances are clearly not a part of the score and therefore shouldn't be there on a soundtrack album.

 

By that logic we would never get instrumental versions of songs in musicals because you're removing parts of the 'soundtrack'.

[Faleel 5,358]

28 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

The performances are clearly not a part of Shore's orchestral score and therefore I think they shouldn't be there on a soundtrack album.

Fixed.

 

In my view, not including them in some way, is like not including Ripples film version.

[Chen G. 3,950]

36 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

This is about tracks such as the opening of Bag End or (worse) Keep It Secret where you have Gandalf or Bilbo doing some ditty in the background which is clearly a part of the diegetic sound

 

Diegetic sound or not, it is music.

 

These are albums for the music of the Lord of the Rings.

[Faleel 5,358]

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Diegetic sound or not, it is music.

 

These are albums for the music of the Lord of the Rings.

I was having a similar discussion to this on the Filmtracks Scoreboard site, and with pretty much agreement:

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=127339#127373

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=127339#127348

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=127339#127390

[Alex Shore 83]

Love this video. 

 

The Crack of Doom, Theatrical Version !

 

 

[Faleel 5,358]

32 minutes ago, Alex Shore said:

Love this video. 

 

The Crack of Doom, Theatrical Version !

 

 

Well, part of it anyway.

[Stark 316]

Perhaps one day we will receive even more complete releases!

[Score 770]

5 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I don't understand what's controversial about this. We're not talking about actual songs with a specific underscore and vocal, such as Houses of Healing.

 

This is about tracks such as the opening of Bag End or (worse) Keep It Secret where you have Gandalf or Bilbo doing some ditty in the background which is clearly a part of the diegetic sound, then you have Shore's cue as a separate entity. Same for Two Towers where Eowyn 'sings' during that funeral scene. The performances are clearly not a part of the score and therefore shouldn't be there on a soundtrack album.

 

 

But both the opening of Bad End and the funeral song in TTT are definitely part of the score, even if the vocals are played (diegetically) by the characters. Those pieces have  both a diegetic and a non-diegetic component; the latter is the orchestral accompainment that you hear below Gandalf's or Eowyn's singing, which matches the vocals in both cases. The diegetic vocals are integral parts of the pieces.

 

[Faleel 5,358]

4 minutes ago, Score said:

 

But both the opening of Bad End and the funeral song in TTT are definitely part of the score, even if the vocals are played (diegetically) by the characters. Those pieces have  both a diegetic and a non-diegetic component; the latter is the orchestral accompainment that you hear below Gandalf's or Eowyn's singing, which matches the vocals in both cases.  

 

Well, the score has spoken 😉

[Score 770]

1 minute ago, Presto said:

Well, the score as spoken 😉

 

I need to change my username...

[Chen G. 3,950]

That's a good point, though: The "Walking Song" doesn't play over Shore's score: rather, its Shore score that harmonises the diegetic singing, and is clearly trying to tie it to the music of the Hobbits in terms of colour and motivic language. And then when that song is reprised by Bilbo it has a kind of leitmotivic function, much like the rest of the score.

 

And since Shore's scores contain a considerable amount of crossover from diegetic to mimetic music - the lament for Gandalf, the "Misty Mountains" praghiera, the dirge for Thorin, the clarient recapitulating Pippin's aria, Aragorn's arietta being reprised in the Symphony - it very much reinforces the case for keeping these diegetic pieces in their place.