Popular Post Ricard 2,245 Posted November 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Oh, there's a whole bunch of people who think its better; particularly other filmmakers, it seems. Off the top of my head, Peter Jackson also says that Empire hadn't "matched that first experience of seeing Star Wars." I don't think he's talking about the quality of the movies, but the experience of seeing Star Wars for the first time in the theater (in 1977). To which I agree. TheUlyssesian, DarthDementous, Marian Schedenig and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 56 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: Star Wars tends to get bonus points for being the first movie that started it all. Yeah, it’s more the novelty than then anything else. Not that I mean to sound too flippant: the film definitely has its own charms: it’s a more personal film in the sense that it’s imbued with autobiographical flourishes, it’s a movie that has a “meta” level to it insofar as it’s constantly referencing other films and works of fiction. It’s also a “New Hollywood” movie in the sense of its commentary on the Vietnam War (something absent from Empire and hamfisted into Jedi). But it’s also much more the B-movie. True, it’s an unpresumptuous B-movie, but still a B. The Empire Strikee Back has more of the feeling of an A-picture. Even people working on the film felt it was all getting much more earnest. And the biggest budget also helps: I mean, what Lucas did on $11 million was pretty astonishing, but there are definitely spots where you feel the limits of time and money bearing on the film in a way that you don’t in Empire. And the miss-en-scene of the original film I often find uninspired compared to its sequel: it’s a film whose success hinges more on the script than on anything Lucas does with his camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I kinda prefer the 2004 version of Star Wars, because the B-movie feeling is less obvious there. Holko and Tallguy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I’ve only seen a fan restoration once so as to compare the two, and I do agree there are a few shots where the Special Edition makes the film feel a bit “bigger”: the alternate shot of the Sandcrawler is much better than the one in the original film and gives a sense of scale otherwise absent from it. But the basic mood of the film is still much more jolly and upbeat (in a B-movie kind of way) than it’s sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I mean, what Lucas did on $30 million was pretty astonishing, but there are definitely spots where you feel the limits of time and money bearing on the film in a way that you don’t in Empire. It's way more astonishing when you know it's actually $11 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Oh, I got the two mixed up: Star Wars was $11 million, Empire was $33. But my point still stands. Star Wars does sometimes feel cramped in its $11 million drawer: the cheapness of Vader's suit, the cheapness of much of the Cantina sequence, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Oh, I got the two mixed up: Star Wars was $11 million, Empire was $33. But my point still stands. Star Wars does sometimes feel cramped in its $11 million drawer: the cheapness of Vader's suit, the cheapness of much of the Cantina sequence, etc... You're looking at it with today's eyes. Nobody thought it's looked cheap in 1977. Nobody! But we definitely had some complaints about TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, AC1 said: You're lookibg at it with today's eyes. Nobody thought it's looked cheap in 1977. Nobody! 1. Of course I’m looking at it from today’s eyes; to do anything else would be disingenuous of me. 2. That’s a big statement you make there. I do know even people in the production thought many of the aliens (mostly the Greedo-type ones) looked cheap. Anyway, my main preference for Empire is not the budget: it’s the tone and feel of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, AC1 said: ...we definitely had some complaints about TESB. Indeed. Critics were not kind to TESB, and it took less money. ROTJ was received more positively. 33 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Star Wars does sometimes feel cramped in its $11 million drawer... Nowadays, people such as Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, and Daniel Craig, wouldn't even get out of bed, for $11,000,000. How times have changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: 1. Of course I’m looking at it from today’s eyes; to do anything else would be disingenuous of me. Then you know that almost all special effects movies get dated, not just Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 On 07/11/2021 at 1:22 PM, AC1 said: Then you know that almost all special effects movies get dated, not just Star Wars. 2001 doesn't. It was way ahead of its time, in 1968, and it's still way ahead of its time, in 2021. It will never get old, or dated. The best special effects, ever. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said: 2001 doesn’t. Much of the Stargate sequence has lost much of its luster, and while the spaceships do look great, in some shots the way they move you can really tell it’s a still image being juxtaposed on an animation stand: it just doesn’t always have the sense of depth or the freedom of motion of later films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Phft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Nowadays, people such as Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, and Daniel Craig, wouldn't even get out of bed, for $11,000,000. You need to adjust to inflation: In today’s dollars, Star Wars cost around $80 million. It was comparatively low budget, but it wasn’t somekind of shoestring-budget indie. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said: 2001 doesn't. It was way ahead of its time, in 1968, and it's still way ahead of its time, in 2021. It will never get old, or dated. Then best special effects, ever. Indeed, Richard. Of course, the effects of 2001: ASO were practical instead of photo optical. Same for Alien. However, Star Wars and TESB used a lot of optical effects, which deteriorated the image considerably. While I'm not a fan of Return Of The Jedi, the optical effects technique in that movie was much improved. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Indeed. As with EMPIRE, much of it went into R&D. STAR WARS was just as much a start-up company, for Lucas, as it was a film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, AC1 said: Indeed, Richard. Of course, the effects of 2001: ASO were practical instead of photo optical. Same for Alien. However, Star Wars and TESB used a lot of optical effects, which deteriorated the image considerably. That’s not right, surely. Kubrick did try to have as much of 2001 done in-camera as possible, but the net result according to Kubrick himself is that around 50% of the film does involve some-kind of compositing. That it looks better is the combination of having a Uber-pedantic director, a lengthier production schedule and bigger budget than Star Wars, as well as being shot on a larger format (70mm and large-format still photography as opposed to 35mm and Vistavision). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, Chen G. said: That it looks better is the combination of having a Uber-pedantic director, a lengthier production schedule and bigger budget than Star Wars, as well as being shot on a larger format (70mm and large-format still photography as opposed to 35mm and Vistavision). Sorry, but I really think that the fact that we are looking most of the time at practical or physical effects instead of optical effects has a lot to do with it. Bigger budgets are helpful but they don't solve problems with optical effects, which Star Wars,TESB and ROTJ relied heavily on. Having many different elements in one frame left Lucas no choice. The effects in the OT have been updated and many have forgotten that some of the effects weren't perfect, like the exterior scenes of Cloud City in TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I'm really not sure what you mean. There are plenty of composites (what you call "optical effects") in 2001. Kubrick estimates that around 50% of the film was composited in some way or another. The individual camera elements in both films are either real models or things fabricated on the animation stand: a fair bit of 2001 is actually animated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Kubrick estimates that around 50% of the film was composited in some way or another. I'm wracking my brains to think of optical shots, in 2001. Can you name some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 Me too. Much of the praise stems from the use of practical effects. Maybe because the space behind the miniatures were matte painted is the reason why Chen considers it a composite shot? With optical effects I mean shooting different effects shots and bringing them together in the lab to create a new shot. This means we are already watching copied instead of original footage and the transition or integration is rarely smooth. Of course, it was less noticeable back then when seen on the big screen. I never saw strange cutouts around the spaceships in Star Wars when they were against a black background. I did see it on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 All I can think of, is the shot of the planets, which is accompanied by the card "Jupiter, and beyond the infinite". Other than that, I'm drawing a blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Well, that was to be expected! https://screenrant.com/dune-2-feyd-rautha-appearance-denis-villeneuve-confirmed/ I mean, where would Dune be without Feyd-Rautha?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 I WILL KILL HIM!!! bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,402 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Did someone here point out that Raban does not actually appear in the novel anywhere? He's just talked about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Did someone here point out that Raban does not actually appear in the novel anywhere? He's just talked about? Yeah, you did, fifteen minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 So who do you think will play Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen? Who looks the best for the part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,402 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Yeah, you did, fifteen minutes ago. Woah, that was surreal. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 2 hours ago, AC1 said: So who do you think will play Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen? Who looks the best for the part? James McAvoy? Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Tallguy said: Did someone here point out that Raban does not actually appear in the novel anywhere? He's just talked about? Have you even read the book? of course he appears in the novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Ok then, Mr. @Tallguy, enough of the , why don't you. Who would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 I think we can all agree that, whoever they choose, he has to be 'up and coming', right? The thing is, nobody comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 What about that Spider-Man bloke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 I dunno, Richard, he has to look menacing ... bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Howzabout Ed Sheeran? He wouldn't even need to dye his hair Edmilson and A24 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 The other characters that have red hair in the old movie, don't necessarily look like that in the new movie, so... please not Ed Sheeran. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I was joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Brundlefly said: red hair In that case ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Brundlefly said: please not Ed Sheeran. Didn't you like his stupendous performance as an extra on Game of Thrones a few years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,554 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Frankly, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Edmilson said: Didn't you like his stupendous performance as an extra on Game of Thrones a few years back? Nope, I don't even like Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 I wonder how many more will take Richard's post deadly serious. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivatee 327 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 6 hours ago, AC1 said: In that case ... This guy has become too big of a movie star now to just flay at the end of the second movie. He's The Batman! But ten years ago, we would've loved to see this lame vampire on a stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, AC1 said: I wonder how many more will take Richard's post deadly serious. No one has ever taken that seriously, the idea is just too terrible for not commenting that this should really not become reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 The FYC a for Dune hasn’t come out yet right? I check that other thread periodically. Didn’t see any updates. Suppose I just answered my own question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,402 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Romão said: Have you even read the book? of course he appears in the novel I just re-read it last month. He's talked about. He never appears. 17 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Ok then, Mr. @Tallguy, enough of the , why don't you. Who would you choose? No idea. He kind of needs to be the anti-Paul. I don't know the up and coming late teen / early twenty somethings. They have a heavier lift in the next movie because in the book Feyd and the Baron kind of oppose each other (from the same side) and show the reader who each of them are. I think that's part of the reason that the Baron doesn't seem very smart in the movie. He wants the Atreides dead and the Emperor helps him make it happen. He's mean but there aren't plans within plans. Removing Feyd diminished both the Baron and Piter. Funny thing, in the book there is a chapter on Giedi Prime that makes sense narratively but not chronologically. It would fit in well in the next movie, maybe. Feyd is every bit the rapist and deviant that his uncle the Baron is, only he's very heterosexual. I wonder if that will be removed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivatee 327 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Hopefully. If Herbert made the Baron homosexual to make him evil (hey, it was the 60s), and made Feyd hetero to make him sympathetic, then drop both tropes. Just stick with fat, ugly = evil, and beautiful, young = good. As if there's such a thing as a good Harkonnen. Oh wait. There is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Why we will never see the inside of the spaceships ... https://screenrant.com/dune-spaceships-interior-shown-not-why-explained/ I just noticed they actually look like giant metal worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Quote Dune is really a project that was, for me, focusing entirely on Arrakis and the Fremen planet And yet, it takes thirty minutes to get there (which actually works incredibly well dramatically). Yet another case where you don't look at what the artist says. You look at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Just because we have to wait a bit before we get to see Arrakis doesn't mean Villeneuve is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now