Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: I don't understand why people complain about the acting in Star Wars or Empire. These are some of the most iconic characters that ever appeared on the silver screen. The main requirement was that they could embody archetypal characters like the innocent hero, the evil villain, the wise mentor and father figure, damsel in distress/Amazon warrior ... And they did so with great success. I don't complain about the acting in Empire Strikes Back. Its much, much better. Star Wars and Return of the Jedi, on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 What, in contrast to Star Wars, which by comparison was a catastrophe in production on so many levels? ROTJ was the movie were it started to go wrong, with Marquand being an impotent stand-by and Lucas basically vetoing all the good script ideas in circulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Return of the Jedi really is an inferior film to each of the previous two films, in every single metric possible. Maybe the lighting is a tad more dynamic than in Star Wars, I'll give it that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 20 hours ago, El Jefe said: Gary Kurtz left as well. I think it was that that did it. He would have said to Lucas: Ewoks? Scratch that, Georgie boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 21 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I don't understand why Irvin Kershner hasn't also done Episode 6! He was asked to but didn't want to commit to another 3 years of Star Wars. 18 hours ago, Alexcremers said: I think it was that that did it. He would have said to Lucas: Ewoks? Scratch that, Georgie boy. Kurtz let the production of Empire get way out of control. Empire was massively late and over budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bilbo said: Kurtz let the production of Empire get way out of control. Empire was massively late and over budget. Just like Kubrick and 2001: A Space Odyssey .... Seems that's the way to make a classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Apocalypse Now The Godfather Mad Max: Fury Road Mulholland Drive ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 ROTJ and the saga in general would have been much better off had Lucas kept Gary Kurtz around (and I'm not sure he was entirely responsible for the cost and time overruns...Lucas and Kershner were involved with that movie also as I recall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The problem with Jedi when you get down to it is that it fully embraces its childishness and the man children can't stand that. It's singing puppets and teddy bears throwing rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 19 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Mulholland Drive So what did ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 22 hours ago, publicist said: What, in contrast to Star Wars, which by comparison was a catastrophe in production on so many levels? ROTJ was the movie were it started to go wrong, with Marquand being an impotent stand-by and Lucas basically vetoing all the good script ideas in circulation. I really felt sorry for Marquand after reading that Return of the Jedi book which came out some time ago. You got the impression Lucas really didn't like the guy at all and was determined to shoot down pretty much any original idea coming from him. But then, he was being mardy about his divorce around that time so maybe that's why... Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thankfully, he got it right with UNTIL SEPTEMBER, and JAGGED EDGE. Unfortunately, the less said about HEARTS OF FIRE, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Quote Unhappy New Years Day: “Last Jedi” Knocked Off Number 1 by “Jumanji” Reboot It seems like New Years Day was an unhappy one for “The Last Jedi.” On its 18th day of release, the latest “Star Wars” movie was supplanted at number 1 on the box office chart by the reboot of “Jumanji.” “Jedi” took in $15.7 million. “Jumanji” scored over $16.1 million. “Jumanji” is in its 13th day of release. For “Jedi,” losing number 1 less than three weeks after release is a little surprising. But as I’ve told you right along, the new “Star Wars” movie hasn’t been keeping pace with its predecessor, “The Force Awakens.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 That's...good news. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The film made over one billion in three weeks with China yet to open. Honestly... Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Star Wars isn't as popular in China, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 USD are no good out here. I need something more real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, publicist said: The film made over one billion in three weeks with China yet to open. Honestly... Wasnt it also the highest grossing film of the year? 2017 was bad for blockbuster and Star Wars still hit the billion. They’ll be happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 They should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 There's no question they'll be happy with those numbers. The film is a massive success under any metric (in terms of box office). But I think it's naive to suggest they wouldn't be concerned with the reaction to the film among a huge part of the fan base. They're going to need those people later on, especially with this new trilogy and as they make more films that don't involve OT characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Exactly. That's the difference between big and strong box office numbers. To think that freaking Jumanji passed Star Wars so soon is pretty amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Question is, what can they do? Frankly, not much. Hollywood has long been wise to the fact that crystal balls do not work and the paying public is a fickle mistress. Who knows what they really want? (or if those vocal fans are not just a vocal mirage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 11:41 AM, Chen G. said: I'm not a huge fan of the original Star Wars. The acting isn't quite there yet, there's a lot of 70's weirdness to be had (think the creatures in the cantina), and it doesn't have neither the grandeur nor the drama of Empire Strikes Back: See how it pulls a Bambi's-mom on us with Ben's death. Empire is the only film of the whole series that, I as someone who was exposed to Star Wars as an adult, can watch and say: "this is that good, and than some." Yea the acting in Star Wars sucked, especially by Peter Cushing and Alex (did I get an Oscar nod?) Guinness. Of course James Earl Jones was doing voice over which isn't acting at all. The acting of the three principles certainly didn't establish iconic film characters for the sequels to be developed around, no that never happened. And in what universe did Jumanji top Star Wars at Box Office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I don't know. Given that he's going to be directing the third film, at this point I wish Abrams would have just done all three (and never thought I'd say that). I had my issues with TFA, but at least with one director Abrams would have been able to tell a cohesive story where each part builds on the next. As it is Johnson, in what I can only think is pure self-indulgence in service of his own artistic pretensions, completely reset the board, and Abrams will essentially be making a stand alone film. I don't have issues with Johnson wanting to take the films in a new direction, and even being subversive to what a Star Wars film is supposed to be. I just don't think one of the Saga films was the place to do it. We waited 30+ years to see Luke Skywalker in action again...and didn't. And we'll never have that chance again, because it was simply sacrificed, along with a good part of the mythology, at the altar of a director's own vanity. Johnson needs to realise that Star Wars is bigger than whatever his pet vision for the story was. And for letting him to do this, along with the Rogue One and Han Solo fiascos, I'm beginning to question if Kennedy is the right person to head up this franchise long term. Ollie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 What I find really funny about the analysis of The Last Jedi's performance is that, while it certainly makes less money than its predecessor (a trend of this franchise), it is already the second best performing film in the series both domestically and worldwide. And yeah, I'm not bothering with inflation and stuff like that. Such a failure indeed... Karol Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: We waited 30+ years to see Luke Skywalker in action again...and didn't. Wtf? You saw more than enough of him in this movie. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hammil did a bangers job with the material he was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 He was a highlight of the movie and received the best finale a character of his stature could ever hope for. In fact I'd even say it was the best conceived storyarcs for any SW character out there. Spoiler From a farm boy to a fighter to a Jedi knight to a celebrity to a broken man to a legend. It was a perfect send off. Karol Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 It all sounds so good the way you say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Too bad it didn’t play out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Were you watching the same film? Karol Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Yes, with quite a few people who felt the same way I do. But this is the wrong thread to have this discussion. Spoilers and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Sure, and what does that prove? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 We shouldn't spoil the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thread title: The Last Jedi Box Office Predictions (No Movie Spoilers Please) Begun by El Jefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Right! I forgot. Masked one of my previous posts. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Actually I was being a bit of a smart ass with my spoiler response, a little humor. I know what Karol was referring to. The basis is quite a few people I know were disappointed with Luke’s story line but I didn’t want to say anything more in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 All I'm trying to say that is those people actually got what they wanted there would be no meaning to any of it. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 That’s a double edge sword. I agree you don’t have to always give the audience what they want, but you risk losing them at times. That being said, I felt they could have done better. Given how the film ended they should have just gone the Sixth Sense route and have Luke already dead and appearing to Rey as a force ghost the whole time. In fact I thought that’s where they were heading when they showed the x-wing underwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I don't have many issues with Luke's story in this. It's the closest this film got to being moving. Its mostly the other two storylines that I don't like, and that's not to be taken lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Whatever the complaints, i doubt they have much effect on the box office. If anything, they will give the next movie a head start. Because one thing Di$ney and anyone with a brain has realized is that old Hollywood adage that bad press is still press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 It looks like the film caught its second wind after Christmas, so $700 million domestic looks like a good bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 19 hours ago, Nick1066 said: As it is Johnson, in what I can only think is pure self-indulgence in service of his own artistic pretensions, completely reset the board, and Abrams will essentially be making a stand alone film. I don't have issues with Johnson wanting to take the films in a new direction, and even being subversive to what a Star Wars film is supposed to be. I just don't think one of the Saga films was the place to do it. We waited 30+ years to see Luke Skywalker in action again...and didn't. And we'll never have that chance again, because it was simply sacrificed, along with a good part of the mythology, at the altar of a director's own vanity. Johnson needs to realise that Star Wars is bigger than whatever his pet vision for the story was. I totally agree with all of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Spoilers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 hours ago, crocodile said: He was a highlight of the movie and received the best finale a character of his stature could ever hope for. In fact I'd even say it was the best conceived storyarcs for any SW character out there. Hide contents From a farm boy to a fighter to a Jedi knight to a celebrity to a broken man to a legend. It was a perfect send off. Karol You saw a different film. I saw one with a cowardly character badly acted by a very limited actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Cowardly? How? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 In every way. He was afraid to act on anything. It was a badly written and naturally badly acted. He was bad in Jedi, which I blamed on Marquand but I realize now Hamill is much better as a voice actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Hamill is possibly better here than he ever was, in any role. I don't mind the character, except for his attempt on Ben's life, which is out-of-character. Otherwise, everything with him is cinematic gold. Too bad there was a lot of bad stuff to mire the gold in. Really, at the end of The Force Awakens, what did you expect Luke to be other than a broken old man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I expected him to be a man of Duty like Ben Kenobi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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