Star Wars Disenchantment

[publicist 4,643]

Mattris, it never happened. It was all a bad dream. There never was a single Star Wars movie. You are now free to go out of your house and enjoy the afternoon sun, take a deep breath and go on with your life.

[Arpy 4,145]

TFA was a point of confluence with the general public and fans to see the first Star Wars film after a decades absence.

 

The point, Mattris, is that you yourself said there is no 'Star Wars Satisfaction Poll' yet you claim Disney's TLJ 'broke the fandom', like you're drawing from some information not available to us mere commoners. Since you can't back up your claims, why should anyone take your fretting with any seriousness?

 

 

[Chen G. 3,950]

30 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Since you can't back up your claims, why should anyone take your fretting with any seriousness?

 

Well, to be fair, the large fall-off between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi is not something to be taken lightly.

 

I attribute it not to the fan backlash, of course, but to the fact that its not as accessible or entertaining a film as The Force Awakens.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And people who saw their first SW in with TFA, and saw no reason to return for a second one.

[Arpy 4,145]

I love TFA, but I thought TLJ was the better film.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

10 hours ago, publicist said:

 

What has that got to do with an out-of-control fandom shy of death threats?

I did not address that. I just address your comment that films don't  matter.

 

I think fans have a right to react however they want. However there are consequences that they may incur and they may be harsh. Bad behavior isn't new it is just opportunistic of new technology.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Has Matriss spoken against those who made threats to cast or crew members of The Last Jedi?

 

Does he condenm the racist, misogynist comments the "fans" threw at Kelly Mary Tran?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

7 hours ago, publicist said:

Mattris, it never happened. It was all a bad dream. There never was a single Star Wars movie. You are now free to go out of your house and enjoy the afternoon sun, take a deep breath and go on with your life.

 

 

Even the carcinogen line works!

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Selina! Selina Kyle! Yaw fiyad!

[Chen G. 3,950]

15 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Does he condenm the racist, misogynist comments the "fans" threw at Kelly Mary Tran?

 

Were the comments misogynistic and racist?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You haven't read the tweets aimed at her?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

No. Not all of us read the trillions of swill posts on Tweeter. Who cares?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You on Twitter? Follow me, bitch!

[John 2,032]

30 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Were the comments misogynistic and racist?

 

Revoltingly so. 

 

It’s very telling how Mattris seemed to avoid condemning the online harassment towards the TLJ cast in earlier discussions in this thread. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Perhaps he thinks those sanctimonious feminist bitches had it coming.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I honestly don't think Matriss is a woman hater or anything like that, from what I've seen.

[John 2,032]

Really? I mean...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I honestly don't remember anything about this:

 

6 minutes ago, John said:

It’s very telling how Mattris seemed to avoid condemning the online harassment towards the TLJ cast in earlier discussions in this thread. 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There is no record of him speaking out against misogyny. 

 

Just saying...

[publicist 4,643]

Misogyny is the least of his problems.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A lack of perspective is his biggest problem, i guess 

 

Its only a movie, in the end.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

A lack of perspective is his biggest problem, i guess 

 

Its only a movie, in the end.

 

You!...You!...you take that back! Take it back right now!

[John 2,032]

Can’t wait for his 4 paragraph repudiation of that statement by tonight!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Does anyone else feel embarrassed that they have to write such an obvious truism as "It's only a movie"?

[publicist 4,643]

In context of this thread it seems like divine intervention.

[KK 3,307]

And Lord knows some of this thread's regulars need a reminder or two...or several hundred, for that matter.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You all take this stuff way too seriously.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

For a guy named Mattris, he seems to be losing a lot of sleep over this.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[Chen G. 3,950]

58 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

I honestly don't think Matriss is a woman hater or anything like that, from what I've seen.

 

Yes.

 

As much as I don't appreciate his rants, I think its much more troubling that, if you have a dislike (even a strong one) to The Last Jedi, you're more often than not classified as misogenystic, racist, stupid, etc...

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

You haven't read the tweets aimed at her?

 

No.

 

Do you have an example? I read plenty about people like Mattris saying that Kathleen Kennedy is pushing a feminist agenda (which is certainly true of how she runs Lucasfilm), but that isn't the same as being misogenystic.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So you are now defending proven and noted misogynist ant-feminism spokesman Matriss?

[Chen G. 3,950]

Has @Mattris said anything remotely misogenystic? I certainly can't recall that.

 

As for "anti-feminist" - given what "feminism" stands for today - every right-minded human would be anti-feminist. Again, that isn't the same as misogenystic.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just now, Chen G. said:

every right-minded human would be anti-feminist.

 

That's just an opinion, and apparently unsubstantiated.

[Chen G. 3,950]

Look, whatever your thoughts on the idea of equity (or equal-outcomes), it isn't an ideal of the western world, and therefore is a feminist agenda.

 

Now, Kathleen Kennedy is absolutely advocating equity in Lucasfilm. So, to say that she has a feminist agenda is 100% factual.

 

The questions that remain are:

Is that a good thing? (no)

Does it affect the films themselves? (this far, thankfully, no)

[publicist 4,643]

Chen just fights for his brother-in-arms, they both can't stop beating the dead horse into the ground.

[Chen G. 3,950]

I probably disagree with @Mattris more than I agree with him.

 

But this discussion has become much too one-sided, and so when he makes a good argument - of the film itself or the agenda implemented in its production company - I'll gladly back it up.

[publicist 4,643]

Again and again and again.

[Chen G. 3,950]

And yet again, if necessary. Its not like there's an awful lot of variation on the other side of the argument, either. Naturally, similar arguments will merit similar rebuttals.

 

Besides, repetition is a form of emphasis. It worked for Cato!

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:52 PM, publicist said:

Again and again and again...

...and again and again and again.

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Does it affect the films themselves? (this far, thankfully, no)

 

@Mattris disagrees with you. He thinks Kennedy instructed the makers of TLJ to inject a feminist agenda into the film.  He's the only one here that thinks that though. 

 

He hasn't really said much about the mysoginist attacks online. He's more disgusted that Johnson called them out for being assholes. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

2 minutes ago, Demodex said:

He thinks Kennedy instructed the makers of TLJ to inject a feminist agenda into the film. 

 

I think its clear from watching The Last Jedi that Rian Johnson got to do what he wanted.

[Demodex 557]

It's not clear to him I guess. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

But, again, because there is a feminist agenda in the management of Lucasfilm, its not unreasonable to fear for that same agenda manifesting itself in the movies they produce.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see IX.

[Demodex 557]

I don't think it did, but so what if it does?  The movie was great regardless. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

Its the sort of thing that can affect the storytelling, if it happens.

 

While its not "feminist" per se, the social commentary of Rose in Canto Bight kind of felt at odds with the rest of the film. Timely themes don't necessarily mesh together with timeless ones.

[Demodex 557]

I thought it was fine. 

[Mattris 416]

14 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Solo's failure has other roots than TJL i think. The fact that it cost too much, no one was waiting for it, the month of release.

 

The "fans" didn't turn TFA into a huge hit. You don't pull 2 billion just from its "fans". The regular public ate it up. 

 

Matriss doesn't use logic very well. Perhaps his anger blinds him.

 

The #1 reason for Solo's failure was the backlash from TLJ. Films don't struggle at the box office because they "cost too much".

 

No one was waiting for it? We're talking about a STAR WARS film here! And no one was asking for a 'Death Star plans' film, and it had no trouble making $1B.

 

The month of release? Really? It was released at the start of summer - just like Star Wars films 1977-2005. Are you one of those people who says that Deadpool 2 caused Solo's failure? No film should stop a Star Wars film from being successful. Coming out just 5 months after the previous Star Wars film didn't help Solo, but had TLJ been received well, it probably would have fared much better.

 

The "fans" didn't turn TFA into a huge hit. You don't pull 2 billion just from its "fans". The regular public ate it up.  As Arpy noted, TFA was the "first Star Wars film after a decades absence." If Episode 9 is only as 'good' as TFA, it will bomb.

 

@Stefancos

How am I not using "logic very well"?

You say Episode 9 will "make loads of money". How much do you think it will make?

Do you still see no evidence that TLJ broke the Star Wars fandom?

Can you find any articles from mainstream websites with the majority comments come from pleased Star Wars fans?

Can you present any evidence proving that the Star Wars fandom is largely united?

 

14 hours ago, Arpy said:

TFA was a point of confluence with the general public and fans to see the first Star Wars film after a decades absence.

 

The point, Mattris, is that you yourself said there is no 'Star Wars Satisfaction Poll' yet you claim Disney's TLJ 'broke the fandom', like you're drawing from some information not available to us mere commoners. Since you can't back up your claims, why should anyone take your fretting with any seriousness?

 

SOLO.

 

Lucasfilm admitted a course correction is needed.

 

Regarding the state of Star Wars, the online 'vibe' is indisputable. People feel that Star Wars is broken and will not be supporting it until they perceive major change. If most of the disenchanted fans are not persuaded back, Episode 9 will be a financial disappointment.

 

13 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Well, to be fair, the large fall-off between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi is not something to be taken lightly.

 

I attribute it not to the fan backlash, of course, but to the fact that its not as accessible or entertaining a film as The Force Awakens.

 

TLJ earned $1.33B from the general public and (most) fans seeing it once. I suspect repeat viewings decreased significantly, hence the $700M drop-off compared to TFA.

 

12 hours ago, Stefancos said:

And people who saw their first SW in with TFA, and saw no reason to return for a second one.

 

TFA being a re-hash of ANH wasn't a main reason people didn't "return for a second one". TLJ had a different director, and the trailers confirmed that it would take the story in a different direction.

 

6 hours ago, John said:

It’s very telling how Mattris seemed to avoid condemning the online harassment towards the TLJ cast in earlier discussions in this thread. 

 

I addressed the "online harassment" and attributed it to a tiny fraction of people... the scum of the Earth who appeared out of the wood-works to jump on the 'Star Wars hate train'. I also said that the online harassment of TLJ cast/crew was blown way out of proportion by the media - so much so that it became the story... when the story should have been that the TLJ cast/crew was insulting fans: accusing them of sexism, racism, misogyny... calling them "assholes" and "manbabies". John Boyega said to the concerned fans, "We don't care." Star Wars novelist Chuck Wendig was the worst, spewing profanity and threats... and dismissed the fans as "not our customers". Thank goodness he was fired... but it took Marvel to do it. Wendig acted surprised that he was fired, saying the Lucasfilm "supported" him in his Tweets.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Look, whatever your thoughts on the idea of equity (or equal-outcomes), it isn't an ideal of the western world, and therefore is a feminist agenda.

 

Now, Kathleen Kennedy is absolutely advocating equity in Lucasfilm. So, to say that she has a feminist agenda is 100% factual.

 

The questions that remain are:

Is that a good thing? (no)

Does it affect the films themselves? (this far, thankfully, no)

 

No doubt Kathleen Kennedy asked Rian Johnson for 'strong female characters' in TLJ. She thinks they we written "beautifully". Most fans have a different opinion. Rose and Holdo were perceived as an annoyance to characters we did care about. Their abrasive presence absolutely affected the film in a negative way.

 

Moving forward, I would have no issue if half of the characters in Star Wars were female... if  they were written well and their inclusion logically made sense story-wise.

 

7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Has Matriss spoken against those who made threats to cast or crew members of The Last Jedi?

 

Does he condenm the racist, misogynist comments the "fans" threw at Kelly Mary Tran?

 

Yes. I also condemn the 'comments' that the film-makers threw at the "fans".

 

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Perhaps he thinks those sanctimonious feminist bitches had it coming.

 

You said it, not me.

 

6 hours ago, publicist said:

Misogyny is the least of his problems.

 

This coming from someone who continues to visit and contribute in a Star Wars Disenchantment thread... calling me "unhinged" and my posts a "display of insanity". If "The world at large has more challenging problems than a silly movie series, as do people's lives (one hopes)." then why don't you just leave to improve your life and make the world a better place?

 

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I think its clear from watching The Last Jedi that Rian Johnson got to do what he wanted.

 

... at the behest of Kathleen Kennedy, who you admitted has...

 

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

... a feminist agenda in the management of Lucasfilm, its not unreasonable to fear for that same agenda manifesting itself in the movies they produce.

 

Every new Star Wars movie features strong female protagonists. The characters of Rose and Holdo seemed shoe-horned into TLJ's story, yet they were featured... to the detriment of the film - but not because they were women.

[Arpy 4,145]

'Most fans'.

 

Here we go again...

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Criminy, he just quoted every post that's been submitted since his last spiel.

[Demodex 557]

Except me. I don't think he likes me.