Naïve Old Fart 9,600 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 The Fauré Requiem. Charles Dutoit/Montreal. Perfection. bruce marshall and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 On 03/06/2022 at 5:05 AM, bollemanneke said: Dragging myself through Haydn's Paris symphonies, digital Karajan. Sound is obviously bad, have no idea why he thought digital was superior back then. And the music itself is a bore too. I'm amazed that after 81 symphonies he didn't cover more exciting ground. The father of the symphony maybe, but I'll take late Mozart, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky any time. You do realize that JW patterned his neo-classical compositions after Haydn? Probably why they are my least favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 That reminds me, I found JW's classical Stepmom cues surprisingly dull. Like Haydn, come to think of it. Jurassic Shark and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 This is obviously popular music in 1934, but in 2022 it's closer to classical than what we would think of as pop. Either way, it's a really lovely, florid arrangement of "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes," reminds me of the style of 30s Hollywood musicals. https://archive.org/details/78_when-your-hearts-on-fire-smoke-gets-in-your-eyes_victor-salon-orchestra-jerome-ker_gbia0186491a/When+Your+Heart's+On+Fire+SMOKE+G+-+Victor+Salon+Orchestra.flac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Bruckner 2. Needs some trimming down, but overall really good! I like his early work much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,229 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Not sure exactly why, but, until recently, I hadn't given Milton Babbitt's work a great deal of attention. I'm glad to have had the chance to begin to rectify that. My favourite so far is the amazing Reflections, which I can't stop listening to these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Babbitt?😳 Really?!😵 Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 It's ok Bruce, he doesn't care if you listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,229 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Slander! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Stu said: It's ok Bruce, he doesn't care if you listen. I assume you mean Babbitt. If so, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: I assume you mean Babbitt. If so, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.😉 A reference to this article that Babbitt wrote and the reason he will live on in infamy as the emblem of Cold War music academia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Cares_if_You_Listen Some people say the headline (chosen by the magazine editor) is unfair, but IMO the actual article is way more damning than the headline. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Reminds me of Boulez comment that.his " scores were meant to be studied, not performed" ( or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,229 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, Stu said: ...IMO the actual article is way more damning than the headline. In what way? I haven't read the full article... 5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Reminds me of Boulez comment that.his " scores were meant to be studied, not performed" ( or something like that). Boulez performed his scores frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 If you think I am going to engage in yet ANOTHER *discussion of the merits of this type of music.... You sir, are insane!😅 * see page 30 26 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said: In what way? I haven't read the full article... Boulez performed his scores frequently. Because nobody else would. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,229 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Okay, now I've read the full article (didn't realise it was so easily available online) and still don't see what's damning about it. And the title obviously isn't an accurate representation of it. 17 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: If you think I am going to engage in yet ANOTHER *discussion of the merits of this type of music.... I know you're not going to engage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,117 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 42 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said: Boulez performed his scores frequently. Yes, but people should do what he said, not what he did. bruce marshall and Glóin the Dark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,516 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 the planets, Karajan. What a performance. With reverb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,489 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 You know, you can add reverb to each and every music you listen to. There are filters for that. But, I agree nothing adds a more natural reverb than a nice tube amp. One day, I'll buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,225 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 4 hours ago, bollemanneke said: the planets, Karajan. What a performance. With reverb! Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,117 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Probably not the Wiener. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 The 80s version on DG. Jurassic Shark and Marian Schedenig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Out of historical curiosity I listened to the very first recording of The Planets by the LSO in 1922-23. Pretty cool actually. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,225 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: The 80s version on DG. One of my favourites. Much better than his 61 Wiener version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Not surprised at all to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,225 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I was. In most cases, I much prefer his 70s and 60s stuff to the digital 80s recordings, at least where I've heard direct comparisons of the same work. For one thing, the *sound* of the analogue recordings is usually far superior. The readings are also less tight and a bit more lethargic in the 80s (not excessively so, but usually enough to make the new versions inferior and unnecessary), and the Berliner's playing is often a bit sloppy. Not so much that it's a problem, but still a difference to earlier recordings. I generally find his 70s Strauss outstanding and his 80s remakes unnecessary. But he only recorded the Alpensinfonie in the 80s, and it's also one of my favourites, yet I can't help but wonder how good it would have been 10 years earlier. Then again, it was made during his rehearsals for the Salzburg festival, and the later live performance from there (almost unreleased, except for a radio broadcast, some obscure Japanese CD, and this YouTube video presumably sourced from one or the other) is out of this world. The problem with his Wiener Planets is that the playing by the Wiener Philharmoniker isn't just sloppy and dirty, but at times downright ugly. They probably just didn't like the music - Karajan was one of the earliest conductors to bring The Planets to mainland Europe, back when nobody took British composers seriously. Still, I applaud his commitment, and even if it's not a good recording (though some disagree and even rank it much higher than his Berlin remake, though I can't understand it), it may well have played an important role in ensuring the work a place in the European repertoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I couldn't agree more about his 70s recordings sounding far superior, but this one was a really pleasant surprise. Bracing myself for his 80s Beethoven cycle though. As for the VP underperforming: it might do this orchestra some good not to choose what they like and just get the job done and realise this is 2022. They can find themselves as cultured as they like, every time I compare them to Berlin, Berlin wins. Every time. They just have an energy Vienna hasn't got. Oh dear me, I'm using the word energy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,225 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: As for the VP underperforming: it might do this orchestra some good not to choose what they like and just get the job done and realise this is 2022. They can find themselves as cultured as they like, every time I compare them to Berlin, Berlin wins. Every time. They just have an energy Vienna hasn't got. Oh dear me, I'm using the word energy... No, this isn't 2022, this was 1961. As for the Wiener and energy (around the same time, just 3 years later): Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 But the fact that you're saying that they might not have liked it that much is enough for me. It's not up to them to like something. It's up to audiences. If they think they're above society, they should play privately in their own houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,225 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 minute ago, bollemanneke said: But the fact that you're saying that they might not have liked it that much is enough for me. It's not up to them to like something. It's up to audiences. If they think they're above society, they should play privately in their own houses. I disagree. Any artist or group of artists has to be invested, at least to a certain degree, to at least some aspect of what they're doing to produce something that goes beyond being merely competent. In any larger ensemble, you'll always find some people who are less happy with certain parts of a given programme than others, but if something goes against the group's will as a whole, there's not much point in pitting them against their audience. You won't usually get something transcendent out of a body of group of musicians performing something entirely against their will. That's different from just being lazy and doing routine repertoire poorly just because they can't be arsed (as the Philharmoniker at least as the Staatsopernorchester have certainly been guilty of at times - at least in the form the orchestra takes when it's made up of too many unexperience substitute players and bored veterans). And it also doesn't change the fact that I disagree with their preconceptions against contemporary Britsh music in the 60s. But in my view, they shouldn't play it well against their will because of the audience. They should play it well because they should discover it's good music. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,971 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 58 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: As for the Wiener and energy (around the same time, just 3 years later): Lohengrin and "energy" don't work in the same sentence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,915 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Prokofiev's Seven, They Are Seven. ragoz350 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,600 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 MOZART REQUIEM. John Eliot Gardiner. Montiverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists. Remember when I posted... On 05/06/2022 at 12:29 PM, Naïve Old Fart said: Perfection. ... about... On 05/06/2022 at 12:29 PM, Naïve Old Fart said: The Fauré Requiem. Charles Dutoit/Montreal. ...? Well, it goes double, for this. Marian Schedenig and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Grieg, Golberg suite. Karajan, you know that first movement is supposed to be taken much quicker. You know it. And you don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,489 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 It's pleasant to see some love for Karajan, he was a real architect of music conducting. I always loved that nice DG 2-CD set, including Beethoven's Symphonies 5, 6 & 9 (from the seventies cycle if I remember well). Complementary to the 60s boxset cycle, of course. Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker : Beethoven* – Symphonies Nos. 5, 6 & 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,600 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I'm in the high-fidelity, first-class traveling set, and I think I need a Lear jet Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 24 minutes ago, Bespin said: It's pleasant to see some love for Karajan, he was a real architect of music conducting. I always loved that nice DG 2-CD set, including Beethoven's Symphonies 5, 6 & 9 (from the seventies cycle if I remember well). Complementary to the 60s boxset cycle, of course. Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker : Beethoven* – Symphonies Nos. 5, 6 & 9 The 70s set is the best for me so far, though that 9th is surprisingly bad. LOVE his fifth and seventh, though, and the Eroica and 1 is also fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,489 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 For The Eroica, I'm not even afraid to go with the 80s cycle. I'm like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,436 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 The New Four Seasons by Max Richter I don't know what people here think about but I really love it, what a blast! bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Shostakovich, symphony 10. Guaranteed a spot in my all-time lsit of awful music, possibly right next to that Spartacus overture. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,489 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Ok I encoded some of my fav Karajan CDs, I'm ready for an explosion of sounds! 1963-Karajan Beethoven Symphonies (63) 1969-Rostropovich Dvorak Tchaikovsky 1971-Mendelssohn Symphonien 1972-Verdi Requiem 1982-Mozart_ Great Mass C minor 2003-Beethoven Symphonies 5.6.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,318 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Max Richter EXILES Nice orchestral version of "...Sunlight" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Mozart, great mass in C, Karajan. Very nice! Will check out Gardiner, Marriner and Suzuki later. Christie maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,117 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Mozart, great mass in C, Karajan. Very nice! Will check out Gardiner, Marriner and Suzuki later. Christie maybe. You have to check out Fricsay's with Maria Stader in top form. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Brahms, violin concerto, wi-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ith Mu-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-utter. Pfffffff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Three Haydn London symphonies. These are very good! Much more exuberant and interesting than the Paris ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,359 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Haydn, symphony 104. Mozart's first is more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,489 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 I don't know what it takes to excite you, but I personally like Mozart’s symphonies from the twenties onwards. And, and, and, an exception... his Salzburg Symphonies (classified as divertimenti), which are probably the best earlier works of Mozart. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,600 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Can anyone recommend me a decent THE RITE OF SPRING? I'm leaning towards the CSO/Boulez. Any other good recordings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,117 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 I prefer The Firebird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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