Can you recommend me a high-end MP3-player/portable DAC?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I'm looking for a device that I can use to replace the inferior digital-analog-converters on different devices like my smartphone and my computer. More over the same device should be able to store a fair amount of lossless music and live from its battery power for several hours/days. 

[Jay 37,364]

https://www.fiio.com/player

[Ricard 2,245]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

https://www.fiio.com/player

 

Exactly.

 

Which one do you own, Jay?

[Jay 37,364]

I don't own any Fiio products myself.  I use my smartphone (Google Pixel 3A) for on-the-go music listening.  

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Does anyone have the M9? It sound like a very splendid and handy product. But I would like to know whether there is a delay, when you want to have it in synch to the pictures on your PC. Another question is, whether it displays cover art properly, when you use WAV.

[Jay 37,364]

Why would you put WAV files on a portable device instead of FLAC or a different lossless format?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

That is the format I normally use, mainly in order to play around with the files on editors. But can I expect that format to work on a new high-end mp3-player, when it also works on a twelve-year-old fifty-bucks-cheap device? I'd guess so.

[Jay 37,364]

WAV files should be saved in your computers, sure, for editing them again if you want to without having to convert them.  But you can also save a lossless version of your work and use that on portable devices, for literally half the disc space used for identical sound quality, leading to be able to store literally double the amount of music on your device without losing any quality.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

But that would waste even more space on my computer which I need, just to save space on my mp3-player which I have enough of.

 

Is it a given that I can also use those Fiio players as DACs for my smartphone?

[Jay 37,364]

How do you figure that?  You can either

 

A) Delete the FLACs off your computer once they are on your portable device, leaving only the WAVs on your computer

 

or

 

B) Delete the WAVs off your computer once you have made the FLACs, leaving only 1 folder to manage that can easily be re-expanded back to WAV if you need to edit them someday with no loss in quality.

[Wojo 2,453]

Let's start a GoFundMe so Brundlefly can afford an external HDD to store his wav collection in flac. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I already have. I'd rather like to get a SSD.

 

No seriously, as long as there is no issue with WAV files on MP3-players, I don't have an issue with my files being that format.

[Faleel 5,348]

Well, you will run out of space sooner.

[Jay 37,364]

There's literally no benefit to putting WAV files on a portable player over lossless-ly compressed versions of the same files.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

It's less work.

[publicist 4,643]

Not really. You batch-encode the files, it takes literally 20 minutes, and you save about 50% of space. I recommend xact for this task.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

Not when B wants to keep the WAV files.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I used to have all my music in WAV. It's the coolest format name. 

[publicist 4,643]

You store these on hard disks. There is a reason why it's called mp3 player, not wav Player. These days it's really the iphone or Samsung etc., having a stand alone player seems a bit anachronistic. I smell software that is never updated and stops working properly. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

7 minutes ago, publicist said:

You store these on hard disks. There is a reason why it's called mp3 player, not wav Player. These days it's really the iphone or Samsung etc., having a stand alone player seems a bit anachronistic. I smell software that is never updated and stops working properly. 

 

Not everyone wants a friggin mobile telephone as their music player.

[Ricard 2,245]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

There is a reason why it's called mp3 player, not wav Player. These days it's really the iphone or Samsung etc., having a stand alone player seems a bit anachronistic.

 

"Seems", if you don't count high-res players, that is. And those aren't called MP3 players, that's for sure.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

You store these on hard disks. There is a reason why it's called mp3 player, not wav Player. These days it's really the iphone or Samsung etc., having a stand alone player seems a bit anachronistic. I smell software that is never updated and stops working properly. 

I have an LG and the sound quality is noticably worse than via my old mp3-player or CDs. The DAC of my computer isn't very good either. And as long as I don't use WLAN and bluetooth simultaneously (call me a wire fan), the often inferior processor of these players will cope with the music.

[crocodile 8,013]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

These days it's really the iphone or Samsung etc., having a stand alone player seems a bit anachronistic. I smell software that is never updated and stops working properly. 

I hate listening to music on my phone. It's just annoying. I get interrupted or distracted all the time and the battery dies quickly. Plus having to have internet connection to access most music can be inconvenient. And these streaming services sometimes remove content (like they did with Sony SW music). I only use it if there's nothing else.

 

I actually replaced my old iPod Classic (which still works fine) with the new iPod Touch 256GB. Removed pretty much every single app from the device and disabled most functions. It's all useless anyway - you need none of those. Battery now lasts almost 5 days and I've got pretty much all my library with me with another 70GB to spare. I'm not dependant on the stability of the internet connection. It's all I need. The only annoying thing left is Apple software.

 

As for lossless formats, I don't really see the point of having those on a portable device. It's not like you can benefit from the that while walking down the street even if you're using above average headphones.

 

Karol 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

20 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I hate listening to music on my phone. It's just annoying. I get interrupted or distracted all the time and the battery dies quickly. Plus having to have internet connection to access most music can be inconvenient. And these streaming services sometimes remove content (like they did with Sony SW music). I only use it if there's nothing else.

 

I actually replaced my old iPod Classic (which still works fine) with the new iPod Touch 256GB. Removed pretty much every single app from the device and disabled most functions. It's all useless anyway - you need none of those. Battery now lasts almost 5 days and I've got pretty much all my library with me with another 70GB to spare. I'm not dependant on the stability of the internet connection. It's all I need. The only annoying thing left is Apple software.

 

As for lossless formats, I don't really see the point of having those on a portable device. It's not like you can benefit from the that while walking down the street even if you're using above average headphones.

 

Karol 

 

People like Pub are latest tech sychophants who think everyone else should conform!

[publicist 4,643]

I don't give a shit what guys on JWFan do, i'm just stating the obvious: niche products come with their own set of problems and - unlike Croc said - you don't need an internet connection to transfer a 100gb music collection to your phone. It works just like the iPod.

 

In the end it all boils down to a question of 'do i really need to listen to all my my music under all conditions in a *supposedly* higher quality?', which to me can be answered with an emphatic NO. First, many things don't sound that brilliant to begin with, second, i'm not sitting naked alone in the middle of a large empty room connected with golden amplifiers, or whatever are the ideal conditions to listen to music, and i guess most others don't do that, either. So it's mostly a foible for which right now there is a small market, but the writing is on the wall since at least 2012.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

In the end it all boils down to a question of 'do i really need to listen to all my my music under all conditions in a *supposedly* higher quality?', which to me can be answered with an emphatic NO.

 

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, publicist said:

i'm not sitting naked alone in the middle of a large empty room connected with golden amplifiers

 

I do that all the time, assuming "golden amplifiers" is an euphemism.

[crocodile 8,013]

42 minutes ago, publicist said:

I don't give a shit what guys on JWFan do, i'm just stating the obvious: niche products come with their own set of problems and - unlike Croc said - you don't need an internet connection to transfer a 100gb music collection to your phone. It works just like the iPod.

Yes, but 100GB is not a lot in 2020. Not to me anyway. And they don't seem to make many phones with expandable drives anymore. I used to have one some years ago. It was a fair compromise, I suppose, but still there's way too many distractions with the phone and I really dislike using one devices for absolutely everything. The day they make batteries that last more than a couple of days with me using the music a lot on top of everything else is when I might be pursuaded to change my mind. If it doesn't last a day it's basically useless.

 

Oh and when I was talking about internet I meant streaming services. Sorry, I wasn't being clear. 😆

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,482]

My Little cheap Sandisk MP3 player Still Do the job, playing my FLACs from MicroSD cards... I don't have space problems, I buy new cards when I'm full!

 

[Faleel 5,348]

Plus some phones seem to have awful "noise gates" which distort and cut out the music at low volumes

[Ricard 2,245]

21 hours ago, publicist said:

I don't give a shit what guys on JWFan do

 

Then don't expect us to give a shit about what you do or think about the subject

[Brundlefly 2,385]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:15 AM, publicist said:

In the end it all boils down to a question of 'do i really need to listen to all my my music under all conditions in a *supposedly* higher quality?', which to me can be answered with an emphatic NO. First, many things don't sound that brilliant to begin with, second, i'm not sitting naked alone in the middle of a large empty room connected with golden amplifiers, or whatever are the ideal conditions to listen to music, and i guess most others don't do that, either. So it's mostly a foible for which right now there is a small market, but the writing is on the wall since at least 2012.

I don't care about 16kHz frequency cutoffs or a reduction from 16 to 13 bits as long as I don't hear that. However, the inferior audio quality of my smartphone and my computer is audible, so I buy a decent mp3-player/dac. No reason to get dramatic with empty rooms or golden amplifiers.

[publicist 4,643]

8 hours ago, Ricard said:

 

Then don't expect us to give a shit about what you do or think about the subject

 

I don't.

5 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

I don't care about 16kHz frequency cutoffs or a reduction from 16 to 13 bits as long as I don't hear that. However, the inferior audio quality of my smartphone and my computer is audible, so I buy a decent mp3-player/dac. No reason to get dramatic with empty rooms or golden amplifiers.

 

Maybe get a new phone?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

34 minutes ago, publicist said:

Maybe get a new phone?

It's relatively new. Besides a new phone with a sublime DAC is much more expensive than a separate player and still not a solution to improve the sound of my computer.

[publicist 4,643]

The player isn't either. For me it's usually the quality of the headphones.

[Wojo 2,453]

On 5/9/2020 at 4:12 AM, crocodile said:

I actually replaced my old iPod Classic (which still works fine) with the new iPod Touch 256GB. 

 

Ooh, I don't think that I knew about this. 

 

Well after sinking over $2000 into a NAS and Mavic recently, as new iPod will need to wait, at least until I sort my collection down to see what size it truly is. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

16 hours ago, publicist said:

The player isn't either. For me it's usually the quality of the headphones.

Of course the headphones are important. But there is a significant difference between a smartphone and an mp3-player. A few months ago I switched back from listening to music on my phone (new and expensive) to a proper player (old and cheap) and just thought: "Wow, this sounds so much more natural."

[crocodile 8,013]

12 hours ago, woj said:

Ooh, I don't think that I knew about this. 

Yeah, it came out a year ago with no fanfare. It's probably going to be the last one given how everyone thinks it's an outdated concept. It might not necessarily be cheapest but it still works out cheaper than many other "niche" players for most of which you'll need to buy extra storage anyway. And since you can remove pretty much all other apps from the device you won't have to worry about storage space or battery life much. I'm pretty happy with it. And still got my old Classic which works just fine.

 

Karol

[Wojo 2,453]

The battery life on my Classic is toast. It only reliably works when plugged in, and then it takes about ten minutes to complain it has a low battery and needs to recharge before it will work. It's useless unless I'm connected to a power source like in the car or my shelf stereo. 

[publicist 4,643]

I have several older ipod models lying around but i just cannot be arsed to put another device in my pocket. And i never found it to be sonically superior to my phone.

[Wojo 2,453]

My Galaxy is three years old and it too has a terrible battery life. It cannot work as a music player for me, and it's more useful for other purposes. 

[crocodile 8,013]

33 minutes ago, woj said:

The battery life on my Classic is toast. It only reliably works when plugged in, and then it takes about ten minutes to complain it has a low battery and needs to recharge before it will work. It's useless unless I'm connected to a power source like in the car or my shelf stereo. 

Which Classic is it? If it is the last 2009 model I believe Apple still replace the batteries (or the devices, rather) at a charge.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

We need mp3 players that run of fuel.

[rough cut 1,714]

My first mp3-player had memory enough for 15 songs. I think the memory was something like 30 MB.

 

I remember loving that little gadget.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Fucking shit, will the fiiO M9 and the fiiO M11 ever be available again? Any other recommendations for a decent player with expandable storage?

[Jay 37,364]

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Fucking shit, will the fiiO M9 and the fiiO M11 ever be available again?

 

Probably not

 

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Any other recommendations for a decent player with expandable storage?

 

What's wrong with the M11 Plus?

[Bespin 8,482]

Samsung Galaxy S21+

[HunterTech 994]

What funny timing, because a creator I follow would've very recently posted this:

 

 

It doesn't discuss dedicated DAPs specifically, but I think a lot of what is talked about there can easily apply to them as well.

Just as a heads up: if you plan on buying the USB-C variant, it's going to be nerfed on most Android devices as a result of the OS only using such devices in pass-through mode. You would need the USB Audio Player Pro to properly utilize the DAC within. Once you do: it'll beat having to buy much more expensive products (though you're probably out of luck if your device doesn't have either USB-C or Lightning ports).

[Brundlefly 2,385]

15 hours ago, Jay said:

What's wrong with the M11 Plus?

The price.

 

2 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Just as a heads up: if you plan on buying the USB-C variant, it's going to be nerfed on most Android devices as a result of the OS only using such devices in pass-through mode. You would need the USB Audio Player Pro to properly utilize the DAC within. Once you do: it'll beat having to buy much more expensive products (though you're probably out of luck if your device doesn't have either USB-C or Lightning ports).

Not an option for me, I not only need a proper DAC, but a device with enough storage.

[Bespin 8,482]

Consider a cloud for your storage (I personally use iDrive).

 

I use Foobar2000 on my Samsung S20 phone (for now I use it with a 64 GB micro SD Card) to play my FLACs, it's free and it's recommended by audiophiles on many websites.

 

With a cloud, you don't really need a lot of memory on your phone, as you can download "on-demand", from your cloud, what you want to listen to and it takes only few seconds.

 

For an Hi-Res USB-C adapter, I recommended the iNassen.

 

 

[HunterTech 994]

5 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

The price.

 

Not an option for me, I not only need a proper DAC, but a device with enough storage.

 

Dude, the Apple dongle is a legitimate DAC. I'm sensing you might be a bit confused, since DAC (Digital-to-analog converter) and DAP (Digital Audio Player) are two different (though related) things. Google the former, and you'll see a lot of similar looking devices. If it's the latter you really want, you might have to start looking on second hand shops, since I think FiiO has been slowly moving away from dedicated players a bit. Doesn't help that they discontinue their devices so often, so you would need to be super quick in getting a unit.

 

With how much these devices can cost, a quick cheap Android phone with a micro SD card slot and a USB-C port really ought to save some serious cash.