Morlock 11 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Can't say I understand exactly what you mean. But he's done and continues to do great scores. And he has a unique voice, his music doesn't sound like anyone elses. I don't know what else there is to it. I don't know if he's a bad orchestrator- though his earlier stuff is abit off at times, his later stuff is top notch in all respect. And even if he is, that's a minor problem, that he could learn. He is a great film composer, and a fresh and original voice. There is no Ottman and co., he is (as the younger composers go) a class onto himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Not really, at least in my estimation. I have hope for guys like Beltrami, or Ed Shearmur, both who have the chops and some real talent. Giacchino falls somewhere in that category.Ottman's harmonic language is pretty pigeonholed and totally predictable. And his theme for X2 was a bastardized version of Kamen's underrated original score. Ottman's idea of "epic" is "hey, let's add tutti orchestra and full chorus, that'll show 'em". Goldsmith could achieve a bigger sound using 18 instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 That's just not true. X2 is one of his least representative scores (though it is very good), Incognito, Cruel Intensions (which was rejected and replaced by a horrendous Shermer score), Goodbye Lover, Snow White, Usual Suspects. This guy's got talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Usual Suspects is one of the most overrated scores I've heard. It's all derived from other scores, especially Williams' Conspirators track from JFK (except not done anywhere near as deftly).Listen, Morlock, obviously you like Ottman's work. Wonderful. I cannot say I've heard anything by him that was well written. But then again, I come from an academic background where I'm used to listening to Mahler, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Ravel, Debussy, John Adams, and find Williams, Goldsmith, Broughton, Shore, Yared, and such to be more in line with that type of compositional prowess. I hardly think Ottman would put himself in that company either.On the plus side, he seems like a very nice person, based on his interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Usual Suspects is almost entirely derived from other scores, but even that is done much better than most people have. And he has admitted that, many times, without being asked. And Since Incognito, he had not done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 John Ottman? Bleh! That guys work sucks IMO! His X2: X-Men United score was so bland and uninspired it made the first movie's lackluster score look spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 X2 bland? Fien whatever. But as I said, that is not at all representative. He was tied into Kamen's score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 And his theme for X2 was a bastardized version of Kamen's underrated original score.And James Horner's Star Trek II... Ottman's theme was a mixture of both and was done on purpose!-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 And his theme for X2 was a bastardized version of Kamen's underrated original score.And James Horner's Star Trek II... Ottman's theme was a mixture of both and was done on purpose!-Erik-Was his use of Mancini's Lifeforce also done on purpose?Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Ottman's X2 had that been there heard that feeling to it the first time I listened to it.I kinda lump him into the overrated category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 And his theme for X2 was a bastardized version of Kamen's underrated original score.And James Horner's Star Trek II... Ottman's theme was a mixture of both and was done on purpose!-Erik-Was his use of Mancini's Lifeforce also done on purpose?NeilFrom what I've read, Ottman stated that he had never listened to Mancini's Lifeforce before composing his score for X2.-Erik- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Not really, at least in my estimation. I have hope for guys like Beltrami, or Ed Shearmur, both who have the chops and some real talent. Giacchino falls somewhere in that category.Ottman's harmonic language is pretty pigeonholed and totally predictable. And his theme for X2 was a bastardized version of Kamen's underrated original score. Ottman's idea of "epic" is "hey, let's add tutti orchestra and full chorus, that'll show 'em". Goldsmith could achieve a bigger sound using 18 instruments. and Kamen based the original X-Men theme on the animated TV shows theme.I love both X-Men movie's soundtracks, so there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 OK, I have a question. I've never heard anything by Giacchino. I've never played a game he's scored, and I've never watched Alias. But, since this is all about video games...I'm a huge fan of Nobou Uematsu, a Japanese composer that's most famous for his scores for the Final Fantasy series. FFVI is my favorite game score, with FFVII right behind. Any other fans here?And as for TV, I've always been impressesd with the work of Guy Gross on Farscape and Cristophe Beck on Buffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I'm a huge fan of Nobou Uematsu, a Japanese composer that's most famous for his scores for the Final Fantasy series. FFVI is my favorite game score, with FFVII right behind. Any other fans here? Right here man, I first started hearing him when I played FFVIII and immediately loved him, I've got numerous FF soundtracks and love all his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Within the past week, I've gotten both the MOH: Frontline and Alias CDs. Frontline is amazing. If the first two MOH albums are even better (as I've heard), then I can't wait to get those! I really enjoyed the Alias album, too. I got it solely because I've enjoyed the free samples on Michael's site so much. These two albums really show the man's versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Hey Ozzel never seen you here before! Welcome! Anyway I am eagerly looking forward to any future Giacchino scores. This man is rapidly becoming my 2nd favorite composers of the present. By that I mean after Williams I look forward to this guy's upcoming works the most. YES! I said it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 YES! I said it!You didn't have to say it, Rogue. Reading this thread speaks volumes, you know.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I'm with Rogue too, but i still hope Williams lasts alot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 You didn't have to say it, Luke. Reading this thread speaks volumes, you know.----------------Alex CremersI beat you to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I'm a huge fan of Nobou Uematsu, a Japanese composer that's most famous for his scores for the Final Fantasy series. FFVI is my favorite game score, with FFVII right behind. Any other fans here? Right here man, I first started hearing him when I played FFVIII and immediately loved him, I've got numerous FF soundtracks and love all his work. I loved his music from what I heard in the games, but I listened to a few of the piano CDs, and I think most of it just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPFAN_2 0 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I saw Alias at a store yesterday, wasn't sure if it was worth the money so i put it back down. Was that a bad move? I haven't seen any talk here about his work for Alias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't like his work on Alias very much. But I despise the show, so I can't say I gave the music much of a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I never really looked at his score for Alias but I recently tried a demo of the videogame and it had Mike's music in it so I listened to some samples of his music for the series and I can say now that it's as good as his other works, albeit a lot different. He definately has the spy thing down, it's a bit of a cross between Mission Impossible and David Arnold's stuff. I'm going to pick up the soundtrack for the first season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeejaHalycon 0 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I saw Alias at a store yesterday, wasn't sure if it was worth the money so i put it back down. Was that a bad move? I haven't seen any talk here about his work for Alias.Alias is a TV show on ABC starring Jennifer Garner. It's easily described as Indiana Jones meets James Bond. Garner's character is a CIA agent who, in addition to tracking down terrorists, is involved with prophecies by a man named Rambaldi (Nostradamus meets Da Vinci) who lived in the 1600s. Without going into a full-blown essay, let me say the show's original claim to fame was Jennifer Garner and the many disguises she would wear (not explicitly sexy, but unusual and stunning) on missions all over the world Also, she would more often than not end up in a confrontation that involved a fire-fight and some serious kung-fu. The plots themselves are contrived, but the show is carried by top notch actors and great production values.As far as the music goes, a lot of it is as far from MOH as you can get. Some cues are full blown techno, while others have a real Bond-esque big band action feel. There are also some great themes as well, there's a love theme, a sinister Rambaldi Theme, a sort of action theme, a theme for Sydney's mother, and probably others. The album is a compilation of a various cues from the 22 episode first season, 25 tracks clocking in at 1:04. I've always felt lucky we got this release, as it would have been easy to put out an Alias soundtrack based on the many songs used in the series. Still, I wish there were some big orchestral suites on the disc. I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I'd really like to hear the love theme featured in "Double Life" expanded to a concert version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Hey Ozzel never seen you here before! Welcome! Thanks for the welcome!I agree that Alias is somewhat similar to Arnold's Bond work. I really like Arnold's stuff, even (and especially) DAD, so that's one reason why I really dig Alias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Alias Season 2 is the strongest with respect to the writing and the story arc. Even Giacchino's score develops past the action-techno writing of the first season and into a more orchestral-based film styled score. I love his variations on the main themes i.e. Sydney's and Vaughn's, Sloans, Rimbaldi's, etc. Ford Thaxton said Varese might be putting out the second season soundtrack. If so, I'm there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I'm a huge fan of Nobou Uematsu, a Japanese composer that's most famous for his scores for the Final Fantasy series. FFVI is my favorite game score, with FFVII right behind. Any other fans here? Right here man, I first started hearing him when I played FFVIII and immediately loved him, I've got numerous FF soundtracks and love all his work. I loved his music from what I heard in the games, but I listened to a few of the piano CDs, and I think most of it just doesn't work.I've never heard the piano compositions. I have the complete scores to FF VI (3 discs) and FF VII (4 discs). Sure, the sound is only a small step above MIDI quiality, but it is superb music. I might buy a couple of the CDs with orchestras performing the music someday, just to hear it played by a full orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I think Alias is a horrible, horrible show. It even sinks great character actors like Ron Rifkin and Victor Garber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPFAN_2 0 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Never watched the show. Don't like Jennifer Garner, she can't act worth a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 OH yeah I just want to agree with Mr. Murray the Skull AKA John that I love Nobuo Uematsu's work. He after Giacchino is my 2nd favorite game music composer. The guy's work for the Final Fantasy series has been elegendary and better than most of the Hollywood motion picture scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Never watched the show. Don't like Jennifer Garner, she can't act worth a damn. That I agree with, whole heartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I agree too. Garner is a pretty lousy actress. Plus her Martial Arts are not mucb better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeejaHalycon 0 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I think Alias is a horrible, horrible show. It even sinks great character actors like Ron Rifkin and Victor Garber.Perhaps, but they still make the show. I wouldn't watch it without those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Jennifer Garner is a bad actress? Bad, well perhaps pedestrian at best. She has limited range and yes, her martial arts aren't convincing (coming from someone who has studied a variety of them for the past 20 years). In fact I'd like to see her get her ass whupped by someone like Jason Borne who really knows what close combat is all about. Half of those b.s. moves GArner does would land her with a broken leg or arm. Kicking is about is useful in real life if you are 5 feet away from your target. And something like Wing Chun or Shaolin Kung Fu have shorter kicks that actually work more effectively.As for Alias, I also agree that Garber and Rifkin are the most compelling characters. Vaugh is a pussy and I can't by him as a tough guy. The past season really let me down insofar as the story genesis was concerned. I did like the 2nd season, especially when they had Lena Olin guest star as Sydney's mother. Now I could believe that she could be dangerous and kick ass! Same goes for Garber. Some of the looks he gives people as Jack Bristow are chilling.Giacchino hopefully will make his way into feature films more and leave behind Alias since it seems he too has become uninspired by the crappy quality of shows in the third season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I am standing by my prediction that in 20 years Mike Giacchino will be one of the foremost composers in Hollywood if not THE biggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I don't have an academic background but I have a taste for more academic stuff, and Ottman just sounds like poorly written shit to me as well. Silvestri another one, I think his quality of writing isn't that high and he's widly overrated, still he's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I hope you get better soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I don't have an academic background but I have a taste for more academic stuff, and Ottman just sounds like poorly written shit to me as well. Silvestri another one, I think his quality of writing isn't that high and he's widly overrated, still he's ok.I'm of the same opinion about Ottman. His compositional style is clumbsy. He just started futzing around on keyboards a while back and it sounds like it. Giacchino uses keyboards but he's had training and that's the difference. He knows how to use the technology as an adjunct to his formal skills rather than compensate for not knowing what the hell he's doing (Ottman).Silvestri I never cared for until I heard Contact. From that point on his music became very interesting to me. I like Predator as well although I wouldn't say it's best example of fine orchestration. But I like how Silvestri has developed over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 That's true, Giacchino knows his maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Contact sounds like something Williams wrote down in a minute while on the toliet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 ouch, that's not nice. And I beg to disagree. It sounds like john Adams on the toilet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 :roll: You both need to hear more Ottman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Um, no I don't. I've heard quite enough already, thankyou.But I tell you what Morlock, for the sake of respecting others opinions on this board, I'll refrain from any more discourse on Ottman's technique (or lack thereof). Sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Certainly acceptible by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Damn man! This has been one lousy summer for movie scores! Sadly the last 3 summer's have sucked movie score-wise as well. I mean what do we have this summer in terms of greatr scores? Nothing really! I mean not even Spiderman provides anything really significant. Damn man! If only JW had scored Spiderman. Then we could've gotten a truly great score with a strong main theme. Instead we get a score with no real main theme. Really just a motif and that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 2002 did not suck score wise IMO (well, not relatively). I wonder when was the last time we had a really great slew of summer scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coscina 3 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 There is a main theme for SPider-man 2. It's the same one Elfman used in the first film. Whether it's memorable or not is the real topic for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Damn man! This has been one lousy summer for movie scores!Yeah, we only got two Williams scores in two weeks! :roll: Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Damn man! This has been one lousy summer for movie scores!Yeah, we only got two Williams scores in two weeks! :roll: NeilYeah and one of em was pretty lackluster. I mean it was as good as it could be for a romantic comedy, but it was still a let down. Besides beyond that what have we gotten? JACK SHIT! This is summertime! Epic scores should be coming out left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Yeah and one of em was pretty lackluster. I mean it was as good as it could be for a romantic comedy, but it was still a let down.I prefer The Terminal to Prisoner of Azkaban.Besides beyond that what have we gotten? JACK SHIT!Van Helsing is a good score and Troy would have been a great score if we hadn't heard it 37 times before.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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