TimeLord 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It sounds very nice on Region 2.I could hear everything there.No probs with the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 The Digital Bits has now picked up on this issue. Just remember sports fans, you heard it here first! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Vincent 234 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It sounds very nice on Region 2.I could hear everything there.No probs with the music.So no problems at all? No faults in the surround mixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLord 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 No problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Vincent 234 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 No problems at all.Thanks. Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLord 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Maybe a cock-up in the mastering for the Region 1 set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Neil and our old friend John Takis have made it to Ain't It Cool now. Go here and scroll about halfway down the page. Look for the title "Hm. So how's the new picture and sound mix?" and a pic of the binary sunset scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Looks like Neil's information is beginning to spread! Besides the AICN review, The Digital Bits have corrected their review (not sure if they actually came to the conclusion about the reversed channels post-review on their own or if they saw Neil's information, but I'd hope the former since no nod is given to Neil). Their correction can be found here: http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocentsThey say they have a call in to Lucasfilm to see if they're going to have a recall/exchange.After waiting so long for the DVD set, you'd think they could have gotten it right. Between this, the E.T. and Back to the Future FUBARs, it makes you shake your head in wonder at how they can't get these big films right!Damnit, how do I delete this post? Sorry, Neil. Just went back to reread recent posts and see that you already caught The Digital Bits post.You know, the studios should hire you for quality control work. It took one man to find an error that so many reviewers (and professional QC folks) couldn't find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 you'd think a company like Lucas films that is on the edge of technology would at least get this part right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Maybe there were too busy making changes to the films, Joe I'm really looking forward to the DVDs, despite the soundtrack error on "Star Wars," but something struck me today when reading an interview with Lucas: he's really been pushing the fact that he supposedly complained in interview after interview about how the original films weren't any good (I don't remember any of this!?), and so he rejiggered the films in 1997. Fair enough (I suppose), he had studio/budgetary/technology restrictions (the last point is highly debatable). But how can he justify the new changes, if he really needs to (which apparently he feels he needs to since he talks about it in every interview) under these pretenses since absolutely no one and nothing was tying his hands from making the majority of the 2004 changes back in 1997? Moot point at this point, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 The Bits got all of their information from me. Lobby them to give me credit. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eplicon 53 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Someone also quoted Neil's information on DVDTalk. Man, you're famous! I think the problem was that many of the DVD reviewers were so eager to talk about one of the most beloved franchises in history which was now seeing its day on DVD, they overlooked a lot of the stuff in the process (sensory overload, maybe?). Hell, if I was excited to the point of getting a heart attack by watching Star Wars on DVD, I would look for too many things and miss a lot of things, too.I'm glad it seems to be some kind of pressing(?) issue. At least based on the samples I heard, I was wondering if it was not some oversight. Fox, after all, was also the ones that bungled Cleopatra by omitting the all-important intermission music. I hope replacement copies are not too far off if this proves to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLord 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Can I say something ?Have you thought that it could be something to do with the authoring company in the US??You all seem quick to leap onto Lucasfilm, when they quite probably delivered the assets to the company, and the assets were perfect.As I have said, I'm in Region 2 and my copy sounds fine to me. I may be a total dunce in that matter, so please don't flame me.You all sound like those Doctor Who fans who are complaining about the TARDIS being the wrong shape, or the Doctor's costume being all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 TimeLord, it's a mix issue. It has to be.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLord 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It's not on the Region 2!!!!!!!!!It's perfect on the Region 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Then R1 got a different mix. The effects are in the right place, but the music is wrong. I'm not the only one to hear this defect.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 And even if it's not a mixing error and it is a replication error, it's still ultimately Lucasfilm and Fox's responsibility to make sure the replication facility did the job properly. So any errors come down to them. Hope they will be as responsible and aggressive about taking care of their error as they were promoting the DVD releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 I don't see how it could be anything other than a mixing error. When you encode a CD into an mp3, does it suddenly reverse channels on you? No. If your CD already has the channels reversed and then you encode it into an mp3, the channels will still be reversed.The same thing happened here. They made a new 5.1 mix, only the music in the surround channels was reversed. They then had that messed up mix encoded into Dolby Digital. It all goes back to the mix.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It's crazy to think about how big this site has become. Between this and breaking the GoF story, JWFan is making quite a mark! John- who first posted this in the wrong thread. :roll: banghead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeLord 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Old Timelord has got it wrong.(Eats a lot of humble pie)Seems the Region 2 is the same.Blimey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Man,first the petition letter against the U.E.now this.LFL will send the Death Star to destroy the JWfan.net.Maybe that's why there not releasing the AotC 2 c.d. set.K.M.Who thinks he's just going to get the Lost in Space season 2 tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eplicon 53 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Via The Digital Bits from Lucasfilm:"We are always impressed with how closely fans listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the Star Wars movies over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is listening. Consequently, each mix comes out differently and any changes that you hear on the all-new Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX tracks on the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as reported." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewdog1 50 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 They are deliberate? Why the heck are they deliberate in the first place? Or are they too proud to admit a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandblaster 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 FWIW...doesn't address the John Williams soundtrack mixing problem directly, but Star Wars Insider Issue #59 Q&A addressed different soundtracks found in different releases...Q: Why was the stormtrooper line 'close the blast doors' added to the Special Edition release?A: It wasn't so much added as put back in. That line was part of a New Hope from the very beginning, but an entire generation who grew up with the original Star Wars on video never heard it.There are at least five different mixes for the Star Wars audio track, with three of them dating back to the film's original theatrical release. In some markets you literally could hear different versions of the film if you knew which theater to go to.During ANH's theatrical run there was a 70mm 6-track mix, 35mm Dolby stereo mix and a 35mm monaural mix. The 70mm mix was the first rushed out the door, the 35mm Dolby had a longer lead time as Star Wars spread out from its intital 32-screen debut to its eventual spread to 1,098 screens 13 weeks later, and the 35mm mono for theaters that lacked Dolby surround all together.With each different mix there are differences in emphasis or placement of sound effects. Some are minor - the Death Star prison breakout laser sounds are a lot zingier...some are a bit more pronounced such as Luke asking 'Blast it Wedge, where are you?' instead of 'Biggs 'where are you...Princess Leia's blaster sounding like Dirty Harry's .45 or Aunt Beru having a different voice altogether. The blast door line is another example.When it came time to release SW on VHS one particular audio mix was chosen, and it became the de facto version for many many fans. A subsequent laser disc release created a fourth audio mix, taking elements from the previous three. The Special Edition prompted a fifth mix.---Also Star Wars Insider#76 Q&A about different dialogue in the Special Edition..."because that track was taken from various available soundtracks"...Luke has different dialogue after R2 is spit out of the Dagobah swamp...C-3PO has an additional line in the asteroid field...Han on Hoth says a different word about putting up a shelter when he finds Luke...Explains some things but not everything...interesting nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendal_Ozzel 36 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I thought the sound quality fluctuation was the difference between ADR and on-set dialogue. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfan 128 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Did everyone read Lucasfilm's statement?"We are always impressed with how closely fans listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the Star Wars movies over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is listening. Consequently, each mix comes out differently and any changes that you hear on the all-new Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX tracks on the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as reported."A DVD-mastering problem is something that I would have expected from Universal (Jurassic DTS, Back to the Future widescreen, and Schindler's List JW Filmography), but not from Fox. If they do re-press the discs, this will likely be the most expensive recall in the history of DVD, with all the people buying it tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I don't see how it could be anything other than a mixing error. When you encode a CD into an mp3, does it suddenly reverse channels on you? No. If your CD already has the channels reversed and then you encode it into an mp3, the channels will still be reversed.The same thing happened here. They made a new 5.1 mix, only the music in the surround channels was reversed. They then had that messed up mix encoded into Dolby Digital. It all goes back to the mix.NeilI wasn't disagreeing with you, Neil (you're certainly more knowledgeable than most reviewers of the title to date). I was simply playing devil's advocate on one of the preceding posts to point out the simple fact that whatever the error, the bottom line is that Lucasfilm and Fox are responsible for the final released product. They obviously knew of the issues (given the statement they released tonight) and they feel it is a "creative decision" and not an error of any form. So no one should place the blame completely in anyone's laps (including the techs who screwed it up) except Lucasfilm and Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 "We are always impressed with how closely fans listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the Star Wars movies over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is listening. Consequently, each mix comes out differently and any changes that you hear on the all-new Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX tracks on the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as reported."Read my lips. This is very simple.FUCKING LIARSNeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfan 128 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I agree about them being fucking liars. If it was really a creative decision to inverse the music in the surrounds, it would have been done for all three films. According to the reviews, the problem exists only on Episode IV. Busted!I guess they didn't want to announce their mistake just hours before the most-anticipated DVD release in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 How many people know what side of the orchestra the violins are?Now how many of these people would notice this in one scene of the ESB DVD mix.===========>Indysolo.K.M.Not worried this will cause a massive re-call of the DVD's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 How many people know what side of the orchestra the violins are?Now how many of these people would notice this in one scene of the ESB DVD mix.===========>Indysolo.K.M.Not worried this will cause a massive re-call of the DVD'sIt's not ESB it's ANH and it lasts the entire movie.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 ok,it's the rears that are reversed from the front channels,I thought it was all reversed,which would have been less worse.In any case,I ain't buying them tomorrow.I'll rent them out first to see and hear for myselfK.m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymenard 54 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Well for some people who have been customed to hearing orchestral music for years and years, the difference is quite apparent.It's like, hearing a Beatles song with reversed stereo. It's just... plain... wrong. Our subconscious just puts a flag and states that something must be wrong. Same darn songs, same darn instruments, it's just reversed.I did that not long ago. I was riding on the bus, and my Koss Porta-Pro felt. The two headphones got disconnected from the headset, and they don't have a Left/Right indicator on them. So I put them randomly, and I started listened to THE SOFT BULLETIN by the Flaming Lips. It was a totally different experience, as they are really wide in their stereo spectrum.We all have a primary ear, so mine was listening to different sounds now (headphones being reversed). It was really fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 LucasFilm and Fox are probably going to stick their head in the sand at this and pretend nothing's wrong. They're just too stubborn to admit they've made a mistake.If we're lucky, they'll fix it for the saga boxset coming in a few years, but don't count on anything.- Marc, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dole 17 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Oh come on everybody. Lighten up! It's perfectly obvious why this has been done. Lucas always intended to reverse the audio channels and dial some of the more distracting music down to complete inaudibility, but as the May 1977 release date grew closer, Lucas simply ran out of the time and money he needed to realize this particular aspect of his vision for the film. Now, 27 years and billions of dollars later, he has been able to finally go back and correct some of these blatant errors in the sound mix (gaffes which have always been noticeable to me and have diminished my enoyment of this classic film). Now, finally we can hear (or rather not hear) the soundtrack as the film's creator/director/writer/executive producer originally intended it to sound. So please everyone, stop complaining, because quite frankly none of you has a clue as to what you're talking about. If Lucas had had the money and the time back in 1977, the mix on the DVD of Star Wars is exactly the mix everyone would have heard back in 1977. This is not a deviation from the original version of the film people, this is getting back to what the original version of the film was supposed to be. Dole- who firmly believes that a film's sound mix is never finished, only abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Oh come on everybody. Lighten up! It's perfectly obvious why this has been done. Lucas always intended to reverse the audio channels and dial some of the more distracting music down to complete inaudibility, but as the May 1977 release date grew closer, Lucas simply ran out of the time and money he needed to realize this particular aspect of his vision for the film. Now, 27 years and billions of dollars later, he has been able to finally go back and correct some of these blatant errors in the sound mix (gaffes which have always been noticeable to me and have diminished my enoyment of this classic film). Now, finally we can hear (or rather not hear) the soundtrack as the film's creator/director/writer/executive producer originally intended it to sound. So please everyone, stop complaining, because quite frankly none of you has a clue as to what you're talking about. If Lucas had had the money and the time back in 1977, the mix on the DVD of Star Wars is exactly the mix everyone would have heard back in 1977. This is not a deviation from the original version of the film people, this is getting back to what the original version of the film was supposed to be. Dole- who firmly believes that a film's sound mix is never finished, only abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 LOL Yeah. That's hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 http://www.dsokids.com/seatingChart/Message for Ben Burt (click on arrow till you see Modern Period).----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Heh, 'Dole' always manages to surface whenever we need a playful mockery of George Lucas or a pointed critique of the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Message for Ben Burt (click on arrow till you see Modern Period). ---------------- Alex CremersI really think you should mail him this. Anyone's got his address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Did everyone read Lucasfilm's statement?"We are always impressed with how closely fans listen to the many different sound mixes we have made for the Star Wars movies over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is listening. Consequently, each mix comes out differently and any changes that you hear on the all-new Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX tracks on the Star Wars Trilogy DVD set are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as reported."The mixing error in the surround tracks is so obviously an error. A disgrace.What I'm worried about is that the volume of the music in the Yavin battle isn't, that Obi-Wan Burtt strikes again. But if we make ourselves be heard, perhaps, indeed, they will fix this for future DVD releases.In any case, well done, Neil. Up and at 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prick vs The DD 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Spread the Neil, spread the Neil!Anyway, there are now about 5 soundtrack mixes going around. Couldn't some semi-professional fan simply create a new mix? A mix that shouldnn't have been done by Lucasfilm.BTW, this could pose a problem for them though. Isn't Lucasfilm promoting this as a new 5.1 Ex mix, improved picture and sound and stuff like that?If that's the case people should be able to rightfully return their discs as they haven't bought anything they were promised. Actually I hope this will happen on a large scale. A tremendous attack on their wallets and arrogance would perhaps make them think twice bout doing that sort of unprofessional stuff again. Hopefully they'll fire some very amateuristic and lazy people over there, and be honest and behave more like audiophiles rather than a bunch of millionairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prick vs The DD 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Also, people who say this is not a problem....(if it all turns out to be true of course, but my faith is more in Neil than it is in them)....are part of our problems.The vast majority doesn't see quality only eye-candy quantity....and it's exactly these people that made this release so crappy. A lazy crowd will produce lazy material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prick vs The DD 0 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 So I take it both region 1 and 2 are infected with disease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Lucasfilm has made an error. The shame with its explanation is that it puts GL as the maker of it. I wonder what lucas says about this...if he cares....Maybe they are corrected in the saga re-release? (and then we will see it WAS truly an error ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 So I take it both region 1 and 2 are infected with disease?Apparently so.And it was pointed out to me by John Takis that this response from Lucasfilm sounds awfully canned. It sounds like a response to people criticizing the new sound effects and doesn't even take into account that the mix is messed up. It's more spin control and an ad for there new DVDs.Losers.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 This official response from LucasFilmWe are very disappointed by the allegations perported by a single individual, named Neil S Bulk. He seems to have an agenda against Star Wars Ep. IV A New Hope. We find this extremely disturbing. However upon further investigation, we have found that Mr. Bulk has led a long campaign of lies, and half-truths against LucasFilms. He has repeatedly attacked not only the film, but the company, and Mr. Lucas himself. He claims to be a "fan", but his demeanor proves otherwise. Through the use of the JWFAN.NET website, Mr Bulk has made it his own bully pulpit in his constant rage against this classic film. This is why LucasFilm no longer has any option but to begin legal proceedings against Mr. Bulk, JWFAN.NET, and all those posters who continue to attack this timeless classic. Through the courts we will find vidication against these anti-Star Wars people. LucasFilm would like to thank those true fans for their constant support, and would like to urge our real fans to help as we take the offensive against Mr. Bulk and his pitiful website.looks like the fight is on, bring it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 Nicely done, Joe.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 How the heck does anyone know where certain insturments are supposed to be coming from? No one does, unless they are the composer, so I don't believe anyone in this thread has the right to demand a re-issue. Only John Williams can do that. People in this thread do however, have a right to not like it. But not to force that on anyone else. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOLNeil, I thought that your response was highly appropriate, although I'm not sure if anyone else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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