Reason's to Appreciate the Under-appreciated Temple of Doom

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is not a perfect film, nor is it a terrible film as some proclaim.

Its a film whose legacy has been tarnished because one of its own makers treats it like a red headed step child. Personally I think as much as I love Spielberg, I think sometimes he doesn't know when he's done well and when he hasn't. IN TOD he's thinks he's done poorly, but he's wrong. Here are some reasons why.

1. The Opening Musical number is just a perfect segue way into the body of the film, after all this is supposed to be an Indiana Jones film, and if Spielberg is going to be bold in his introduction into the film, then he's gotten the audience off balance, not knowing what will happen next.

2. A minor thing I suppose, but I just love the incomplete title, when Willie blocks the movie title, I am not sure I had ever seen that done before.

3. Spielberg's daring use of a stereotype, playing to a period piece, rather than cater to critic, or a PC mindset, and supply a modern tough girl. Willie isn't Marion, not in anyway shape or form, sure she's shrill, but always pleasing to the eye.

4. The filmmakers use locals to great advantage. Lucas and Spielberg take us to interesting places, different than in Raiders, completely different. The vistas and natural settings are wonderful, and they give us a history lesson as well. Afterall the film may be fiction, but the Thuggies were not.

5. The film has a nice balance of situation humor as opposed to humor for humor's sake as it predecessor does often.

6. Harrison Ford, so wonderful in Raiders, he's equally good in this. He's more physical, just as tough, and yet he gives Indy sublte qualities that each of us can identify with. He's very caring in this movie.

7. Spielberg and Lucas have created a homage(hom-edge, not O-moge for the fancy crowd) to great films of the past, and more recent, I could supply a list, but really as a film fan, you should either know or find out on your own. And its not always subtle.

8. The Mine car chase sequence, might seem obligatory, the desert chase of this film, and it might be, but wow, what a visual feast it was. It was exciting and scary, and a bit nauseating. Today they would do it with CGI, but in 83 it was a single frame camera, minatures and go motion figures.

9. The DARKNESS of the film is one of my favorite themes through out this film. Steven Awalt of Spielbergfilms.com says really Raiders is darker, and in someways he's right, yet at times...

The film is lightened some by cartoon violence that tells you this is still a movie afterall, but the scene where the little boy has escaped and finds his way home is not your average "Disney" picture. The threat of death, loss of culture, and the murder of innocent children isn't very cuddly. Again I say shame on you Mr. Spielberg for disowning this film.

10. Trivia or trivial, but this film has an important place in American film history. It along with another

Spielberg production, Gremlins ushered in the age of PG-13, indeed many people are quick to say that TOD was the first PG-13 film, but they would be wrong, Red Dawn has that distinction, but its not as wonderfully graphic in its violence as a heart being ripped out, snake surprise, a simple soup, or a gremlin in the microwave.

11. While this ties back to #10, I love the over the top, wonderful gore of this film, trademarks of Raiders, and eventually to this trio of films. Did I mention Chilled monkey brains, yum.

12. The cinematography is superb. If I had one question to ask about this film to the director, I would ask him if he imagined this film as if it were black and white. Really, what the shadow play in the film, its sheer genius. Again this harks back to the films of the past. Hats off to you

13. Daring to be different Pt 2. TOD could have been a by the book sequel as LC was, instead S&L chose to be different. And while some refer to it as a non-stop action serial, its not, it has more in common with a fortress against the world James Bond picture(yes I stole Ebert's reference).

14. It was nice to have a villlian like Mola Ram, who was physical presence the equal of Jones, but he's also frightening. Sure he's a meglomaniac, but what decent villian bent on world domination isn't.

15. Family values..., This film shows us that no matter what, where, or when, the love of our children is a foundation of family, and its universal. Its one feature that allows Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom to have the best ending of the three films.

16. I saved this for last, John Williams. What an inspired score, and yet we have so little of it. A complete release of this score is the Holy Grail of all film scores. Its ironic that the last film of the series to date is about the Holy Grail. John supplys both darkness and light that meets the films needs.

Its a diverse score that is both familiar, and not, with ethnic qualities that put you in an otherwordly place. Thanks John for this masterpiece, it would be the last score of his unbelievable 10 year period.

TOD holds a dear place in my heart. Its not a film for everyone, and fortunately it doesn't try to be.

It alone of the two Raiders followups dares to be different, dares to explore unfamiliar territory. It didn't play it safe. If Adventure has a name it must be Indiana Jones.

[Greg1138 3]

Is it an under-appreciated film? I was unaware of this to be honest....

Greg - who loves the movie - waayyyyy better than Last Crusade.....

[mahler3 478]

That's the most enjoyable post i've read in a long time, I agree wholeheartedly with all that you state.

8. The Mine car chase sequence, might seem obligatory, the desert chase of this film, and it might be, but wow, what a visual feast it was.  It was exciting and scary, and a bit nauseating.  Today they would do it with CGI, but in 83 it was a single frame camera, minatures and go motion figures.

I also love the fact that it's not completely scored too, proving once again that Williams & Spielberg are masters for knowing when not to score a scene, when infact they get criticised for over-scoring!

[MrScratch 294]

Is it an under-appreciated film?  I was unaware of this to be honest....

Raiders and LC are both in the imdb top 250 and ToD is not. Everyone I know (family, friends), says that they either dislike ToD or that it is their least favorite.

Jeff

[John Takis 214]

Whoo-hoo! Been waiting for this one! Thanks, Joe!

[Trumpeteer 302]

And it's a prequel!

[ChrisAfonso 188]

Ah, then everything's clear

[A24 4,374]

When I saw it I had that ROTJ feeling all over again.

[Lurker 5]

2.  A minor thing I suppose, but I just love the incomplete title, when Willie blocks the movie title, I am not sure I had ever seen that done before.

It was an in-joke. Raiders was such a successful film the joke was that it did 80% of the marketing for the next film. To keep the joke going, they intentionally covered the title, figuring no one really needed to see the title, since the character of Indiana Jones was firmly established.

As for it being a prequel, that wasn't very well thought out since in Raiders he says he doesn't believe in magic.

Neil

[fommes 154]

Yep, what Neil said.

I don't think of Temple of Doom as underappreciated either. I like Ebert's review.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

As for it being a prequel, that wasn't very well thought out since in Raiders he says he doesn't believe in magic.

Neil

Indy in Raiders.:

I don't believe in magic, a lot of supersticious hocus-pocus.

Indy In TOD:

Yes, I understand it's power now.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Also, Indy mentioned Short Round lost his parents when the Japanese bombed Shanghai, but at the time this movie is set, that hasn't even happened yet. It happened after Raiders was set. Notice the call-back to the basket chase as well, which hasn't happened yet either.

I like ToD, although unlike Joe, I'm not a big fan of the family value thing. There's some cheesy bits in the movie because of that, saved only because the music doesn't go over-the-top at the same time.

It's also a very loud film. A lot of yelling and screaming. You get used to Willie after a while, but she's still annoying. Capshaw did the best with the character (there wasn't much there to work with other than a stereotype). I don't really like the use of this particular stereotypes. There were some stereotypes in Raiders, but I felt this one didn't work as well as those.

A fine film otherwise though, with awesome cinematography and fantastic special effects, the mine car chase being a real standout. First IJ film I ever saw, and while it may be the odd one out and not as brilliant as Raiders, it's still an excellent two hours' worth of entertainment.

[krosstj 0]

Indysolo wrote:

As for it being a prequel, that wasn't very well thought out since in Raiders he says he doesn't believe in magic.  

Neil

Indy in Raiders.:  

I don't believe in magic, a lot of supersticious hocus-pocus.  

Indy In TOD:  

Yes, I understand it's power now.

Lol, lets really open up a can of worms, yea that little bit there is poorly thought out, how about we talk about SW EP I and II.hmmmm, now lets get on with the big plot holes...

[A24 4,374]

Is it an under-appreciated film?  

Yes, not everybody thought it was splendid.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

"Here we go again." C3PO

[A24 4,374]

I like ToD, although unlike Joe, I'm not a big fan of the family value thing. There's some cheesy bits in the movie because of that, saved only because  the music doesn't go over-the-top at the same time.

It's also a very loud film. A lot of yelling and screaming. You get used to Willie after a while, but she's still annoying. Capshaw did the best with the character (there wasn't much there to work with other than a stereotype). I don't really like the use of this particular stereotypes. There were some stereotypes in Raiders, but I felt this one didn't work as well as those.

The subtlety and nuance of the first one are gone.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Exactly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

Good riddens!

[krosstj 0]

TOD, was fun up until...well....the TEMPLE. It is the weakest of the Three, but not a BAD film. I love Last Crusade the best, I know most people actually like it the least, but I really enjoyed LC.

[Henry B 51]

I think the main problems with ToD are the over-the-top humor (e.g. the animal parts feast... not funny, just stupid) and the lag phase after the opening sequence - nothing happens, really, other than exposition, for well over half and hour. It's still a good film, though, nowhere near as dull as LC.

[Justin 2]

TOD for the longest time was my favorite of the three. Of course now I've come to realize the perfection of Raiders but that does not belittle TOD at all.

BTW, in my head TOD is NOT a prequel and it never will be.

Justin - Who doesn't get the prequel idea. I had nothing to do with the film or any of the films. Lucas and is dang prequels... :roll:

[RuBen_Kenobi 19]

Great post Joein. I really like The Indy trilogy, and now TOD is my least favorite and LC my personal favorite. But as a child TOD was the first Indy movie that I saw (Kalimaa, Kalimaaaaa), and it is great (not as good as the other two but a great adventure film)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well RuBen, my favorite is Raiders, as I've said before, its a near perfect film, and then TOD, I only like LC a little, as I see it is the least polished of the three.

and I must disagree with cerrabore, I don't see the humor as over the top, his examples fufill several needs within the film.

1. there must be the gore sequence, key to a Raiders film, and this is one of them

2. it shows the depravity of the situation they are in, advancing the plot.

[Greg1138 3]

well RuBen, my favorite is Raiders, as I've said before, its a near perfect film, and then TOD, I only like LC a little, as I see it is the least polished of the three.

Last Crusade to me feels like a 2-hour long cash-in.....Sean Connery lifts it a little, and the character play between father and son is a joy, but it all just seems so tired...........

Greg - who watches ToD far more often than he watches Raiders.....though thinks that Raiders is the better-made flick.....

[Dean1700 4]

8. The Mine car chase sequence, might seem obligatory, the desert chase of this film, and it might be, but wow, what a visual feast it was.  It was exciting and scary, and a bit nauseating.  Today they would do it with CGI, but in 83 it was a single frame camera, minatures and go motion figures.

Minor correction Joe. The figures were stop motion. The mine cars were "Go" motion which were pulled along by wire DURING the shots. The figures were manipulated BETWEEN shots.

[Dean1700 4]

As for it being a prequel, that wasn't very well thought out since in Raiders he says he doesn't believe in magic.

Neil

Indy in Raiders.:

I don't believe in magic, a lot of supersticious hocus-pocus.

Indy In TOD:

Yes, I understand it's power now.

Remember this line....

"Kid. I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I am a fan of all 3 Indy films.

Raiders: Great action, drama, and comedy throughout.

TOD: The 1st half is the funniest, the 2nd half the darkest.

TLC: The funniest. But it did have the weakest ending of the three.

I can't pick a favorite Indy movie. I love all three.

When I saw it I had that ROTJ feeling all over again.

Yes, not everybody thought it was splendid.

*"Blah blah blah TRON!"*

With comments such as these, one wonders why such people are Williams fans?

Perhaps you should STOP POSTING HERE!!!!!

-Chris

PS- GOTCHA! 1977 my @$$.

[King Mark 3,634]

I agree with Joe's original post.I like ToD slightly better than Raiders.

K.M.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

8. The Mine car chase sequence, might seem obligatory, the desert chase of this film, and it might be, but wow, what a visual feast it was.  It was exciting and scary, and a bit nauseating.  Today they would do it with CGI, but in 83 it was a single frame camera, minatures and go motion figures.

Minor correction Joe. The figures were stop motion. The mine cars were "Go" motion which were pulled along by wire DURING the shots. The figures were manipulated BETWEEN shots.

ILM used their GO motion techniques, which is virtually the same as stop motion, the same techniques used in ESB, and E.T.

Oh Chris, some of us like Tron.

[Lurker 5]

ILM used their GO motion techniques, which is virtually the same as stop motion, the same techniques used in ESB, and E.T.

Go Motion was developed for Dragonslayer and was not used in ESB.

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I watched this movie again today and quite enjoyed it. It's not as brilliant as Raiders - not by a long stretch - but it's still fun in its own way. I paid particular attention to John's score and found some wonderful stuff I'd never heard before. I'd love to hear a complete release. While maybe not always suitable for the film, musically I love this wall-to-wall bombast approach.

After viewing the film I popped in my Jurassic Park CD and noticed how very similar the music was. Maybe I'm just hearing things, or maybe it's simply because both scores were written by the same composer. But when Spielberg mentions he and Williams hadn't done a film like JP since Jaws I can't help but think that JW isn't really revisiting his composing from Jaws, but more from ToD. In all likelihood this probably wasn't a conscious decision, but more a stylistich similarity.

- Marc, rambling again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

While maybe not always suitable for the film, musically I love this wall-to-wall bombast approach.

Are you kidding?

- Marc, rambling again.

Indeed.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

While maybe not always suitable for the film, musically I love this wall-to-wall bombast approach.

Are you kidding?

Well what I meant is that a wall-to-wall scoring approach is not always the best way to go. Look at how much music was (in many cases rightly) cut from ESB. Yet the score is my all-time favorite, one of the reasons being that there's music written for practically every scene. The music really does tell the entire story.

And it's great music on its own.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

TOD's score is a 100% perfect fit for the film.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes. I should've written "while not always suitable for film, musically I love this wall-to-wall bombast approach."

However it does contribute to some of the loudness of this film. There's not just yelling and screaming, there's Williams working the orchestra as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,270]

I say again...

Perfect for the film.

Pauline Kael be damed!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well that old broad is dead and long since rotted away.

[orrakul 0]

Wow, what a great post; I totally agree. Though I love them all, TOD is my favourite of the Indy films. It's too bad that Spielberg distanced himself from the film; I think his Direction is exellent. And of course, John Williams again manages to capture the essence of the film with his score - don't know where all of the music comes from in JW's mind - he's brilliant!

[A24 4,374]

Pauline Kael be damed!

It's not only just her, you know. Really, while the first one is a genuine class act, the second one is crude and loud "entertainment". I understand why Spielberg distance himself from it. The third one is simply wooden. Spielberg' s heart was someplace else when he made it. Honestly, loving them all is an insult to the classic which is Raiders Of The Lost Ark. I would love to buy the DVD, if only it were available as a seperate release.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Honestly, loving them all is an insult to the classic which is Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

:roll:

[A24 4,374]

Honestly, loving them all is an insult to the classic which is Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

:roll:

There's nothing wrong with spicing up your posts, man. It's true anyhow. 8O

[MSM 126]

I just received my Temple of Doom soundtrack which I bought from E-bay. Very glad to have it, it's awesome music. Fast Streets of Shanghai is my fav track.

Regarding to the movie, I think it's not a bad film but just not as entertaining as Last Crusade. I think a movie should be enjoying.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Hah! To think that Last Crusade was once my favourite and Raiders my least. That changed after I actually watched the three films while not at the age of twelve. Not only do I think Raiders is the best, it's in my top 10 film list (which has an impeccable number of films in it for a top 10, but shhh!). ToD is second with a bit of a gap, with LC closely followed.

I think as a stand-alone film ToD is excellent, but compared to Raiders it's okay. Then again, ANYTHING's okay when compared to Raiders.

Magical Me - Who has recently discovered Raiders of the Lost Ark and loves it.

[MSM 126]

What I do like about ToD is the old fashioned film making aspect. It's a suspenseful adventure story without an annoying overload of CGI images (as is the case with the new movies by Lucas).

By the way, any news about the new Indy movie? I thought would make an old-fashioned adventure style movie again, which is what we should have back in theatres.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Oh Chris, some of us like Tron.

LOL, I know, I wasn't really insulting it. I never really got into it, but I don't hate it or anything (although I abslolutely loved that little handheld Tomy videogame to it back in the early 80's! I still have a collection of those old LCD things... heh). And it isn't neccesarily a masterpiece or anything... usually Alexcremers only defends critic-favorite 4-star films and snots all over the rest. I was just making fun because Alex implied that I shouldn't post anymore because my tally was 1977 in another thread.

[A24 4,374]

Oh Chris, some of us like Tron.

LOL, I know, I wasn't really insulting it. I never really got into it, but I don't hate it or anything (although I abslolutely loved that little handheld Tomy videogame to it back in the early 80's! I still have a collection of those old LCD things... heh). And it isn't neccesarily a masterpiece or anything... usually Alexcremers only defends critic-favorite 4-star films and snots all over the rest. I was just making fun because Alex implied that I shouldn't post anymore because my tally was 1977 in another thread.

Well, the world TRON created IS a masterpiece.

I would expect a true Star Wars fan to stop posting when he reaches the number 1977, the birth year of the religion he believes in.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

It' not only just her, you know. Really, while the first one is a genuine  

class act, the second one is crude and loud "entertainment". I understand  

why Spielberg distance himself from it. The third one is simply wooden.  

Spielberg' s heart was someplace else when he made it. Honestly, loving them  

all is an insult to the classic which is Raiders Of The Lost Ark. I would  

love to buy the DVD, if only it were available as a seperate release.

Waaaa-waaa-waaaaa! Alot of baby-like whining on this board. This used to be a place of intelligent discussion.

Well, the world TRON created IS a masterpiece.

And you laughed at me for movies that I claimed I liked in the past?? Pfft.

I would expect a true Star Wars fan to stop posting when he reaches the  

number 1977, the birth year of the religion he believes in.

Some people are either incredibly ignorant about me or religion goes over your head. Not to mention that some don't understand the idea of enjoying something or having a hobby, and that said people don't appreciate constant bashing and personal attacks that are supposed to be illegal on this board or something. I guess it's conditional.

I'd expect people who bash John Williams scoring style to stop posting. Are you a troll or something?

[A24 4,374]

I would expect a true Star Wars fan to stop posting when he reaches the

number 1977' date=' the birth year of the religion he believes in. [/quote']

Some people are either incredibly ignorant about me or religion goes over your head. Not to mention that some don't understand the idea of enjoying something or having a hobby, and that said people don't appreciate constant bashing and personal attacks that are supposed to be illegal on this board or something. I guess it's conditional.

You take my "1977" comment way too seriously. Chris, stop foaming at the mouth and continue worshipping Star Wars/Lucas.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Chris, I do believe your signature is pretty stupid, not only that but its not symetrical, I do believe your skills are slipping.