Star Wars Prequel Music Resource

[GoodMusician 56]

Don't mind my musings, but I am curious about the ending of "Council Meeting" from Episode III as posted.

Yes, it seems to make sense muscially... the whole thing about how in reality, if you switched the endings for that track and "Moving Things Along" you get what sounds better...

But I ask this...Why would John Williams have had "COuncil Meeting" end in a statement that is more about ships going into hyperspace than anything... I felt it was out of place for the ship landing, don't get me wrong... but it would feel even weirder if it were meant to be there...

I'm guessing there was something edited or obmitted...but what was it?

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind him putting that at the end of the track...

I wonder if perhaps we have it backwards and what was on the album was pitch shifted... it doesn't happen often... but I do wonder if perhaps instead of it being shifted down a halfstep to work musically in the film, it was shifted a halfstep up to fit where it was in the album...

But again, maybe there is a darn good reason why it was there and any conjecture otherwise is moot... Just curious if anyone knew.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But I ask this...Why would John Williams have had "COuncil Meeting" end in a statement that is more about ships going into hyperspace than anything... I felt it was out of place for the ship landing, don't get me wrong... but it would feel even weirder if it were meant to be there...

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind him putting that at the end of the track...

Maybe because Lucas asked him to? There seem to be a lot of fanfares for just ships taking off and landing and so on.

[Ollie 1,059]

There are alot of musical ideas in the prequels that don't make sense.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

In TPM the music is used also for the people arriving to the ship to leave corustant. ('Wesa going home!')

This is what Yoda does in EPIII.

[GoodMusician 56]

Yea...that's what I'm talking about... the "Wesa Going Home" fanfare... it just doesn't make sense to end the cue with that... And I mean I have yet to run into something from the prequels that is as John Williams wrote it that doesn't make sense...

Which makes me ask again... why is it there. Was there something removed...a ship landing or something? Was the conversation about "Prophesy Misread" meant to be somwhere else? becuase that's what the next scene is...

I just don't understand what the fanfare was MEANT to accompany.

[Trent B 337]

"The Prophesy Misread" music is just edited/tracked music from "Anakin Crawling" with the drum roll most likely from "Death Of Dooku" tackled on at the begining with a pitch change...

[GoodMusician 56]

see now that's helpful to know... but at the same time... does that mean that scene was not meant to be there? that instead we were suppose to hear the fanfare for ...Yoda leaving?

[deleted account 108]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of Lucasfilm by quoting something from Hyperspace, the official website had this to say about the cue currently under discussion:

"One unexpected quotation was the fortissimo finale of Episode I's Coruscant scenes, the swell of trumpets that announced Queen Amidala's departure from the capital to return to Naboo. In this case, the music reveals a massive clone staging area, where Jedi Master Yoda will be joining troops on a mission to Kashyyyk. Immense turbo-tanks and walker units file into the waiting cruiser, while other troops and Wookiee allies help control the flow of traffic."

So I think it's likely that the cue on the cd is presented the way it was originally written and not altered in any signifigant way (i.e. pitch shifting).

[GoodMusician 56]

ok...so the endings should be switched... k ;-)

Which means that the Prophesy Misread scene was a latter edition or moved there...

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

'Prophesy misread' has unused music, found in the OST I think.

[LongTallJodie 59]

Is there any chance we might get updated AotC Expanded instructions soon? Most of the files in the current instructions are outdated.

[Delorean90 42]

I never understood why they had that big happy fanfare in the middle of one of the grimmest sections of the movie. You'd think they could have at least tracked in something more desperate or something.

[dalty_smilth 0]

I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted to bump this back to the first page.

[sandman609 0]

So, I guess it's just about time to give up all hope on those rumored Cerrabore edits that were going to be available? ... sigh....

.... Though I did hear something mentioned somewhere about king mark having a version.... hmm....

[Vaderbait1 1]

Don't bother with complete edits (with sound effects) it's too jarring. Just edit your own expanded and you'll be much happier.

So everyone, while we're upped, what does everyone think the odds are of a complete release coming out this year? Lots of rumors are swirling, but we all know how reliable internet rumors are.

[sandman609 0]

I have listened to some of GoodMusician's work and I know what you mean about the sfx. I was interested in Cerrabore's because from what I understood it was going to be arranged like the special edition (not by cues) and not include any sfx (only DVD rips for crucial moments) I know this won't be "complete" but it'd definitely be more than I have now. (and better than I could edit on my own)

[King Mark 3,631]

My Episode 2 includes the unreleased game music and extra fanfares,but it's just the expanded/unreleased cues +OST.I did not split up tracks in the rest of the OST .It's an Expanded Pseudo-Chronological Score.

K.M.

[Delorean90 42]

I've just realized that there's actually a final sustained note at the end of the Battle of Kashyyyk. It starts at the end of the Yoda shot, and carries briefly into the start of the "Goodbye, Old Friend" scene. It's mixed extremely low. At first I thought it was tracked from the end of "Palpatine's TV Set," but instead of coming to a stop, it lasts longer, sort of fading out instead of coming to a stop, and it sounded like there might be some strings in there. Does anyone know what the story is on that? Has it been figured out?

[GoodMusician 56]

I wondered about that. I remember when I was working on my film edit I forgot about it... and then when I was working on my complete edit, I noticed it but didn't pay too much attenetion to it as it seems such a random insert.

Let me check on it. I still have the German DVD rip handy.

[GoodMusician 56]

After listening to it, it sounds to me like at the end of tracked music had a cymbol crash tracked in during the shot...and then that chord that plays at the end of "Be Careful of Your Friend" in the film is used.

I still have no idea where that is tracked from. It is one segment I can't quite place.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

So, I guess it's just about time to give up all hope on those rumored Cerrabore edits that were going to be available? ... sigh....

I reckon Cerrabore will finish his version eventually. In the meantime I have made several special edition-like Star Wars prequel versions myself. I have made a Phantom Menace 2-disc special edition based on GoodMusician's complete edition. It isn't perfect, but I reckon it's reasonably good. Some edits could be better; I'll try to work on that eventually. I also made a special edition for Star Wars Episode III based on several extended editions I have found. It doesn't have much SFX and I think it's pretty good, but there are some changes I want to make now that GoodMusician released his complete version. And today I made an extended Star Wars II version according to the editing instructions in this thread and with the help of King Mark's work. The only track with SFX I added is Shmi's Funeral; otherwise it is SFX-free. If anybody is interested in any of this, just say so.

[Delorean90 42]

After listening to it, it sounds to me like at the end of tracked music had a cymbol crash tracked in during the shot...and then that chord that plays at the end of "Be Careful of Your Friend" in the film is used.

I still have no idea where that is tracked from. It is one segment I can't quite place.

I didn't hear the cymbal crash. The chord itself is mixed so incredibly low I don't even understand why they left it in--it almost makes me wonder if it's the end of an original composition for that scene, but I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part.

There's something like this in TPM, also. In the "The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune" scene, in the shot where the ramp comes down, it seems like there's a hint of music there right after the "Death of Qui-Gon" cue and right before the QCNR cue, perhaps seguing. I need to check it again, but you can check yourself. It's pretty hidden, but there's definitely something there, and I can't tell where on earth it's from.

[V_For_Vendetta 0]

Cerrabore I just have one question for you. How can I get your edited Episode III cues?

[Henry B 50]

You can't.

I guess I owe a bit of an explanation here. No, won't be an Episode III edit for distribution in the immediate future. The FTP is still up and files are available to download. This thread still exists. The track list for Episode III is (as far as I can remember) up-to-date/to my liking. This is not so for Episode I (new Battlefront II material not yet incorporated/miscellaneous) and Episode II (pretty much needs a rewrite).

I currently don't have plans to finish my work here until summer of 2007. I've gotten busy with school, college applications, composing... and, frankly, I feel I'm in a different place, musically. I still like the Star Wars scores, but I can't plod through them like this anymore. You can think of this as more or less of a "resignation" from the Prequel Music Resource (though, if any major new music is released, I'll likely be there). Anyone who knows what they're doing is free to continue work on this. I may actually create an appendix for this thread for the purpose of displaying material contributed by others, if nothing else.

I'd like to finish this some day (unless the complete scores are actually released, which would be a bit of a relief), but now isn't the time.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

No requests in this thread, please.

PM Cerrabore or LordSkylark for access to the FTP.

[Henry B 50]

Oh, yeah. Forgot to mention: I'm still giving the link, if you need it. PM, please.

[V_For_Vendetta 0]

Cerrabore i'm interested in some of your german rip tracks, but they're not in the US/Canada FPS. So how can i change the FPS and can i use Audacity to change the Frame Per Second?

[GoodMusician 56]

Your talking about the music right? In that case, the FPS effects the pitch and speed, so from hereon lets call it "pitch and speed."

Your ability to change it depends on the program. I know on mine you just have to speed/pitch shit if by -0.68 or something like that... try checking for such a thing on your program and try shifting BOTH pitch and speed (as if you only do one it will still be off) until it matches what it should... I believe it was a minor third off? I can't remmeber... it's been so long.

[deleted account 108]

I think someone said it's a 4% decrease in speed?

[V_For_Vendetta 0]

But how can you change it using Audacity or SoundForge?

[deleted account 108]

In sound forge, go to the effects menu, select pitch shift, then lower the pitch by cents (I can't remember exactly how much - sorry). Make sure "preserve duration" is unchecked or else the software will try to time fit the audio and it will sound very glitchy.

[GoodMusician 56]

which is pretty much what I said...

whatever you're using, search for the "pitch change" option. And be sure to change the time as well (do not 'preserve duration') because that is different as well.

Change it so that it's the right pitch... it's something like a minor second, 4%, -0.68 or something like that... compare it to the american DVD or rip a segment that has been released, and test your ability to make it sound the same as the album material. Then you'll know for sure exactly how far to tune it down.

[Dr. Jones 0]

For anyone who is interested:

I don't know if this has been posted before in thies WOW 61 pages!!! topic, but....

You can hear an Alternate mix of Anakin's Betayal on the ROTS Bonus Disc:

At the Beginning of the Documentation "Within a Minute" you hear the end of Anakins Betrayal, where the choir starts singing again.

On the OST Album you can hear them sing softly in the background, but on the DVD the Choir is much more prominent singing with powerful Vibrato in the voice... you can barley hear the Orchestra... unfortunatley Rick McCallum starts to talk.. but with the right audiosoftware (Aodobe Audtion for example) you can filter his Voice out.

I used that alternate mix for my Expanded ROTS CD Set.. I think it sounds much more powerful and is very moving.

[Delorean90 42]

Interesting...

I think I found something. I'm thinking that perhaps what we've been using as the alternate end to "Get 'Em R2!" may be part of "The Elevator Scene." It doesn't make sense, because this would make the cue pretty dang long, but it's just so close. First off, as we all noticed from the start, it ends on the same note as the cue as we know it starts, on Grievous's entrance. But then, I took my ROTS edit and lined it up so the last note would coincide with the note in the movie, and the music preceding (starting with the music that is in place of Anakin blasting his way into the Invisible Hand) matches pretty well. The music following those initial brass blasts seemed too low key to be anything there, but it actually matches the aftermath of the hangar battle, including instrumentation for R2 activating the schematic of the Invisible Hand. Check it out.

[GoodMusician 56]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... Like...if we play the album against the film you mean? if that works, I think it's just coincoidental because there is a bit of editing going on...

As for the landing music, I've not truly tested out that part too much because we don't have all of it, but I havec compare the introdution of Grevious and the Elevator scene. You can see that here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j71BIOUh2f4

That's how I feel it was meant to be from General Grevious' introduction on.

As for the music what you were saying... I think it's just coincoidental that how it is on the album works kinda right because we kno that there was quite a bit of editing and such...

But I dunno... Maybe I misunderstood you?

[Delorean90 42]

No, not on the album--I'm talking about the Battlefront 2/Galaxies music we had for the alternate end of "Get 'Em, R2!" I'll try to make a clip of it over the weekend, but if you sync it up so that the last note of that coincides with the first note of "The Elevator Scene," where Grievous enters the room, there's some pretty nice matching.

I have seen your Star Wars and Jurassic Park clips, though. Good stuff!

[GoodMusician 56]

oh, I see... I misunderstood because I don't call "The Elevator Scene" the cue that starts with "Introduction of Grevious." I call them two different cues... I think they are at least...

But I see what you mean about them working... I just compared... and it would seem that my suspision from a while ago, that there was a missing, unreleased segment for the landing in the Invisable Hand, that is only partially heard/used in the film.

You've inspired me to go back and relisten to the files on my computer. I actually found an alternate take of "Battle for Naboo II" there the horns forget to come in near the end lol

Along with Padme's Rumination (Film Alternate)...

(angry that most of the OT tracks in these games sound better than the SE's) grr...

[Delorean90 42]

Heh--glad to be of inspiration.

I called it "The Elevator Scene" because of the cue list, but when you consider it, it does seem like a pretty big cue for Williams to have as only one. You would think that "Grievous's Introduction" would be a separate cue. That's making me start to doubt the completion of that cue list that we have. It seems like the more we find out about ROTS, the more we get pieces to a puzzle! We need a comprehensive official release with the DVDs this year, big-time.

[GoodMusician 56]

See, I personally have doubted both the EPisode I AND Episode III supposed cue lists. I do not agree with eaither of them. WHen I made my complete edits, I paid very little attention to them because as far as I was concearned, if you began to scrutinize them enough, there were flaws.

General Grevious and The Elevator Scene, IMO are two entirely separate tracks. I mean, you can separate them easily enough for one, let alone the fact that there is an alternate percussive version of The Elevator Scene that opens very cleanly.

On top of that, there are several other moments where You can tell that the cue was recorded separately. I suppose that technically it could have been written as one cue, but if it was recorded separately, that's all that matters to me.

I also wanted to make a little informal announcement, I've gone back over Episode I and made a little video. I have to, unfortunately, separate it to put it on youtube, but I think you all might be interested.

I went back and re-edited the entire Battle For Naboo (up to "Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new tready!" as the rest of the music from there is correct (except a micro edit for "Blowing up from the Inside").

I am currently uploading it.

Like I said, I re-edited the film to fit the complete score. It helped answer a lot of questions I had about how the score worked and what was meant to go where. I'm gonna make a new thread about it so you can all talk about it there.

[Trent B 337]

The Episode III cue list came from offical sources, so it's pretty complete.

By the way a cue can be however long the scene calls for it. Some of you should know that by now..

If you remember "Moving Things Along" (aka Enter Lord Vader) was reported to be just barely over 6 minutes and it is. It starts when it shows Anakin arriving at Padmé's apartment after Order 66 and it ends how it appears on the OST... plus we have the unused bit on the OST. The Phantom Menace fanfare that they tracked into this cue in the film is supposed to go at the end of Council Meeting.

Chances are there might be some tiny bit of unreleased music with "The Elevator Scene" that we haven't heard yet who knows for sure until we actually get the complete intended score released (if it ever happens)...

As far as the unused ending bit that is for "Get' Em, R-2!" that piece is defintely for "Get 'Em, R-2!". I think besides the section that we heard in the film there MIGHT be a tiny bit more that we haven't heard (though I kind of doubt it). Plus remember John Williams obviously saw a longer cut of that scene than what's presented on the movie.

Either way we offically won't know for sure how cues go until we get a complete intended version of the score...but the way how Cerrabore has it set up I believe is how it goes and that's what I'm sticking to...

[GoodMusician 56]

yea... but this list doesn't seem to work

here for example:

I have a hard time that Count Dooku isn't two tracks. One of the battle, one of the music after his death... but lets say it is one cue.

2M5 Grievous Travels To Palpatine

2M6 Scenes And Dreams

Grevious Travels to palpatine ends right after that choral chord.

Then a new cue starts. That ends with the low string chord.

Then, Scenes and Dreams starts with the violins on a higher note of the chord (to be layered over)

Whats the name of that middle cue? Why isn't it listed? the one that actually accompanies Grevious talking to sidious...and no I don't mean that possible tracked and transposed bit of him walking. I mean the rest.

2M6 Scenes And Dreams February 12 2005

2M7 Be Careful Of Your Friend February 13 2005

I have a hard time believing Scenes and Dreams isn't separated after Anakin gets up and walks out. I mean... that's a 6 min cue if it isn't separated there.

Again, Council meeting is considered one cue. If there's one thing I've learned, it sthat excluding concert suites, end credits on occasion, and Album specific tracks like Anakins Theme, John Williams does not write cues longer than 2 minutes. And when he does, it's actually two or three cues meant to be layered together.

Council Meeting is considered one Cue... thats 4:30 of straight music. Not saying it's not possible... jsut that It's unlikely... especially when there is a very obvious place to end it when the scene shifts.

Again

4M6 I Am The Senate

5M1 Palpatine Instructs Anakin

Whats the music that plays when Mace is killed then? Its not part of eaither but is not listed.

5M6 Moving Things Along

5M7 Anakin's Dark Deeds

Here, Enter Lord Vader is Missing. Those are two cues. Enter Lord Vader is like 4 mins, Anakins Dark Deeds is 2. We know they were recored separately... but it's not listed that way.

I mean, perhaps I'm misunderstanding and that a cue is made of up multiple...sections recorded separately and then compiled or some such... but to me, a Cue is a section of music, usally to accompany one specific segment lasting anywhere between 2-3 mins (at least when it comes to John Williams).

But eaither way... presenting the score as recorded, you can't go by that list because it does not have all the titles unless you want a whole bunch of "part 1" or "part 2" tracks.

That's what I mean...

[Trent B 337]

As I said a cue can be however long the scene calls for it. If it's 6 minutes, then it's 6 minutes.

If there's a bit of silence between music sections for a long cue that is because that was how the composer wrote it.

Anyways my head hurts from all of this and I think I'm done trying to explain this if someone else wants to, be my guest...

As far as the Episode III cue list goes, I for one do believe has all the titles and slate numbers listed for it...

[Jim Ware 526]

Grevious Travels to palpatine ends right after that choral chord.

It ends where it ends on the OST. It's all one cue.

Scenes and Dreams is a six-minute cue. Scoring session reports have confirmed this. Moving Things Along is even longer.

5M6 Moving Things Along

5M7 Anakin's Dark Deeds

Here, Enter Lord Vader is Missing. Those are two cues. Enter Lord Vader is like 4 mins, Anakins Dark Deeds is 2. We know they were recored separately... but it's not listed that way.

There is no cue titled Enter Lord Vader. It's part of Moving Things Along.

[GoodMusician 56]

then how come there are clean endings to all of those if it wasn't recorded that way?

I mean, I'm willing to concede that I'm wrong. THat the cues are recorded in separate sections and that they are all the same cue, just recorded in part. I knew they recorded cues multiple times and layered them, but not in multiple parts.

I'm just saying that each one of those instances, there is a clean ending... there is a complete recording. And that the next part that is part of the same cue was recorded separately and layered underneath..

[deleted account 108]

The sketches to JW's score for SUPERMAN THE MOVIE indicate that he definitely spotted the film with cues that lasted longer than 2 minutes. Now, I know there's 20+ years between Superman and SW Prequels, but it seems like he will still spot with cues longer than 2 minutes.

He has stated in interviews that his goal is to write 2 minutes of score a day - but that doesn't necessarily mean he every cue is 2 minutes or that he finishes a cue every day - logic indicates it might take him 3 days to write a 6 minute cue.

The Superman sketches also indicate that many cues were compiled by editing different TAKES together. IE they recorded a several takes of the same the cue and cut together a final version using sections from each take. They also recorded pick-ups, meaning if they got halfway through a cue and then it fell apart, they might go back and pick it up from a few measures before the trainwreck and then carry on to the end, then create the final version by editing the 2 takes together. But this doesn't make that 2 cues.

The BBC doc with footage of JW conducting ESB shows him recording music (eventually dumped) for the mynock cave. He's shown rehearsing the orchestra by picking up at a later measure in the cue than measure 1. I think doc footage of DOTF also shows similiar pickups.

Personally, I do not agree with a lot of GM's deductions re:breakdown of music for the prequels - but I applaud his efforts and welcome his input, and always look forward to hearing his edits. I don't think any of us will know definitively until a comprehensive cd is released, especially for films that changed so much between spotting the music and theatrical release, such as the prequels.

[GoodMusician 56]

I'm aware of most of what you said... the composing of two minutes a day and so forth. I'm not saying that's my reason for believing that cues seem to only be that long...

But from what I've found... heard... seen... most of the cues are around that length of time. Some are longer...some are shorter...

I know he records things over several takes... but does he purposely break cues apart...and record sections alone? Because if so, then that's ok...

Its just to me, a cue is a single piece of music that can be compiled by separate takes... but it's one piece. If you record something in different segments then to me... that's like separate cues.

There are many instances where it seems like he only records about 2 minutes per take... And I don't just meanpickups at random spots... these are seemingly planned.. they are at lulls...and are separetely orchestrated.

That's why I consider them separeate cues... I suppose the term may be wrong...and I could concede that perhaps they are separate parts to the same cue... orchestrated to be recorded in sections...

Seeing as there seems to be no definite "this is the definition of cue that everyone uses and is how it is" it's why I, perhaps falsely, call them separate cues.

My efforts with the prequel scores was to present them as recorded--for better or for worse--which is why I came across this pattern of about 2 minute stretches of music...

but whatever...

I guess another point to be made is that the cue list does not include anything not used in the film (which seems like a no brainer but I feel is worth being said). What I mean by that is, even though it is the official cue list... it's the official "as to be used" cue list. It does not truly show the amount of music actually written, recorded, etc. That would be the list to have.

[Henry B 50]

General Grevious and The Elevator Scene, IMO are two entirely separate tracks. I mean, you can separate them easily enough for one, let alone the fact that there is an alternate percussive version of The Elevator Scene that opens very cleanly.

It isn't clean; at least, you can't tell because of the synthesized percussion. Even if it is "clean," then it's clean in the sense that it doesn't come in on the fadeout of the OST's note, but on a later, unreleased note.

[GoodMusician 56]

Well, then my next question becomes... why wouldn't they record them separately? there is taht scene right between them?

And don't even say "well, that might have been added" because if that were so, then that whole scene wouldn't make sense. There wouldn't be a shot showing those droids walking in at all... it would just cut to R2 (after "The Elevator Scene" music actually starts) hiding from them... which would be confusing... not to mention, that whole intercourse between R2 and the droids is definately a part of that music... so it's not like the idea to add them was something that came latter...

Also, it would cut from them cutting down all the droids, directly to the shot of the elevator comming to an abrupt stop which, again, would be weird...

Eaither they were recorded separetely or there was unused music inbetween...

just look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j71BIOUh2f4

[Henry B 50]

Yeah, there was probably unused music inbetween. You can hear what might be the beginning of it in the deleted Grievous introduction scene.

[Trent B 337]

I agree with Cerrabore about the possibility of there being even more unreleased music for "The Elevator Scene" that we haven't heard yet. As Cerrabore pointed out in the deleted scene where Grievous Kills Shaak Ti after Anakin and Obi-Wan jump down into the fuel tanks and the music ends (the unused bit that we have) it sounds like more unused music begins to play before it gets cut off and goes to the next deleted scene. Also keep in mind John Williams saw a completely different take on that whole sequence than what we see in the movie... so who knows how long the sequence originally was before it was edited down in post production.

We'll never know for sure until we get an actual release of the real complete intended score for this (and the other two prequels).