Michael Giacchino's Star Trek

[Ollie 1,292]

Am I the only one glad -- besides Joey -- the choir isn't there?

It doesn't bother me. I'll take 2 discs with 100 minutes of music over Varese doing a 60 minute album and paying the fees to include the choir.

It's not a TP:UE fisco, far from it.

[Jay 42,685]

I'd rather they waited until they could afford to do it right instead of rushing out an inferior product with the funds they had.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

there is no "botched" edit on the ESB finale on the anthology

that's the film version of the cue

I don't mean the film edit on the love theme part. The end of 'Finale' is cut off so the segue sounds weird.

[Jay 42,685]

oh yea? I dont think I ever noticed that

[Demondm810 437]

It really was a poor decision. I would have paid more to have it as intended.

Minus the costs for that stupid book packaging.

[Richard P 4,791]

I put the blame for the botched DE mostly in the choir union's realm. It's an utterly idiotic business decision to refuse to give a label discounts for only pressing limited amounts. Do they want a small payment for no extra work at all, or nothing? Idiots.

And of course the general assembly of the set had problems, but I don't think we can judge whether it was just rushed, or Townson made some unpopular editing decisions.

[fommes 161]

I put the blame for the botched DE mostly in the choir union's realm. It's an utterly idiotic business decision to refuse to give a label discounts for only pressing limited amounts. Do they want a small payment for no extra work at all, or nothing? Idiots.

Well put!

And I'm going with poor editing decisions, at least concerning the tracked titles.

[Trent B 348]

Am I the only one glad -- besides Joey -- the choir isn't there?

Apparently

I put the blame for the botched DE mostly in the choir union's realm. It's an utterly idiotic business decision to refuse to give a label discounts for only pressing limited amounts. Do they want a small payment for no extra work at all, or nothing? Idiots.

And of course the general assembly of the set had problems, but I don't think we can judge whether it was just rushed, or Townson made some unpopular editing decisions.

I agree with that.

I'd rather they waited until they could afford to do it right instead of rushing out an inferior product with the funds they had.

Likewise. Plus the fact that several cues were micro-edits. If the score had been released by say La-La Land ...maybe the choir would have been there, maybe not but we do know for a fact that there would have been NO micro-edits of any kind.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,087]

I finally got around to dealing with my distaste for the mixing of this score (standard, deluxe, and otherwise) this past weekend.

I wrote up a little script and program to basically take frequency analysis (in this case generated by my music editing program) from one track and use it to equalize to a designated one.

So then, I took average frequency data from passages from (my favorite mixed soundtrack), The Final Frontier, and compared them with similar passages in Star Trek. The similarity part was judged by me, so I just fed files with markers for the passages to analyze and compare with their similar counterparts.

Results? HUH? WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! OH! RESULTS? FAILURE! I failed to account for the fact that Star Trek 2009 was mixed INSANELY louder than Final Frontier expanded. This also revealed the huge logical flaw in my wonderful creation. So the result was bloody ears.

So I went back to the drawing board, had the program account for this discrepancy.

Results? SUCCESS (with some subjective clean up by me).

Star Trek sounds MUCH better now, and actually pretty close in signature to The Final Frontier Expanded. I am liking tracks I didn't care for before because they have oomph but also crispness. The original files now sound very bloated in the mids. I can't even listen to them anymore.

I did *not* touch any of the spatial/staging aspects of the sound, since things like reverb/separation done after the fact tend to destroy details...and are just best not done without access to all the tracks for each file. But overall, I'm pleased. For a relatively simple weekend exercise it yielded some very good results.

Hangar Management sounds almost as *BIG* as the Hangar it scores now. If only I could be there to move the mics back a little and have some more reverb before the mix down.

[Trent B 348]

I finally got around to dealing with my distaste for the mixing of this score (standard, deluxe, and otherwise) this past weekend.

I wrote up a little script and program to basically take frequency analysis (in this case generated by my music editing program) from one track and use it to equalize to a designated one.

So then, I took average frequency data from passages from (my favorite mixed soundtrack), The Final Frontier, and compared them with similar passages in Star Trek. The similarity part was judged by me, so I just fed files with markers for the passages to analyze and compare with their similar counterparts.

Results? HUH? WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! OH! RESULTS? FAILURE! I failed to account for the fact that Star Trek 2009 was mixed INSANELY louder than Final Frontier expanded. This also revealed the huge logical flaw in my wonderful creation. So the result was bloody ears.

So I went back to the drawing board, had the program account for this discrepancy.

Results? SUCCESS (with some subjective clean up by me).

Star Trek sounds MUCH better now, and actually pretty close in signature to The Final Frontier Expanded. I am liking tracks I didn't care for before because they have oomph but also crispness. The original files now sound very bloated in the mids. I can't even listen to them anymore.

I did *not* touch any of the spatial/staging aspects of the sound, since things like reverb/separation done after the fact tend to destroy details...and are just best not done without access to all the tracks for each file. But overall, I'm pleased. For a relatively simple weekend exercise it yielded some very good results.

Hangar Management sounds almost as *BIG* as the Hangar it scores now. If only I could be there to move the mics back a little and have some more reverb before the mix down.

I do agree that the mix is horrible and they should have pulled the mics back a bit more.

I couldn't get into the score when the OST was first released but when Deluxe Edition was released I got into it right away. It really is a good score and a very good Star Trek score. I picked up the fact there was homage to Goldsmith in the writing style, particularly the action cues IE: Chutes and Matter.

[Demondm810 437]

I listen to chutes and matter 94% more than the rest of the score combined.

[Andy 6,025]

Definitely the highlight of the score.

[Jay 42,685]

It's amazing it didn't make the OST

[Wojo 2,458]

I'd be interested to know the specifics of how the frequency math was applied, and what factors were applied to the regions. If it requires Blumenkohl's proprietary software, though, I'm SOL.

[Henry B 51]

Is there any listing of what music can be found in DVD/Blu-ray menus and documentaries? The footwarmer is not a very good sounding source.

[Datameister 2,447]

As I recall, there isn't anything clean in the DVD features that's not on the DE, with the exception of the unused first part of "Narada Boom", but it doesn't sound that great.

[Jay 42,685]

You mean Narada Bing?

[Datameister 2,447]

Whoop, sorry, that's what I meant, haha.

[Jay 42,685]

Other than some clipping, the sound on that boot is fine imo

[Henry B 51]

Yeah, there is clipping, but it also sounds rather dull to my ears. Like it came from a compressed source.

[Jay 42,685]

It probably did

I think there are ways to tell if a wav file came from a lossy source but I don't know how to do it myself

[Datameister 2,447]

I think there are ways to tell if a wav file came from a mossy source but I don't know how to do it myself

Just look to see if it's green on the shady side!

[Jay 42,685]

Bah. I'm on my iPhone in the Foxwoods poker room

[Datameister 2,447]

Hehehehehe...

[Luke Skywalker 2,216]

It probably did

I think there are ways to tell if a wav file came from a lossy source but I don't know how to do it myself

if its the same source as the choir cues, its true lossless.

maybe the muddiness is part of the usual dan wallin mix, or some 'raw unprocessed prior to mastering for release' file.

[fommes 161]

Hey Jason, is the main post up to date? I was just wondering what Spock Bans Offshore Drilling is - is it now an official alternate to Nero Death Experience?

Also, in your cue-by-cue discussion, are all the tracks that are supposed to flow into each other noted? For instance, should Narada Bing flow into Narada Boom?

And I don't quite get this one - and I'm probably reading this wrong, but did he rescore the opening twice? You put the original Narada Bing in the beginning of your cue list, then under rescores there's the Opening on the album as well as "46. Narada Bing (Insert) - 0:50 - Unreleased" - what's the latter?

[Jay 42,685]

Hey Jason, is the main post up to date? I was just wondering what Spock Bans Offshore Drilling is - is it now an official alternate to Nero Death Experience?

The main post is up to date with the exception of Spock Bans Offshore Drilling. I never got around to integrating that into the main post. Basically, I think what we've been calling "Nero Death Experience" is actually TWO separately recorded cues (10m45 and 10m46). "Spock Bans Offshore Drilling" I believe is the original version of ONE of the cues. I just haven't gone through both to figure out timings, etc..... and I don't know what to call each separate cue.

Also, in your cue-by-cue discussion, are all the tracks that are supposed to flow into each other noted? For instance, should Narada Bing flow into Narada Boom?

I put "/" marks after any cue that is meant to flow into the next.

And I don't quite get this one - and I'm probably reading this wrong, but did he rescore the opening twice? You put the original Narada Bing in the beginning of your cue list, then under rescores there's the Opening on the album as well as "46. Narada Bing (Insert) - 0:50 - Unreleased" - what's the latter?

Typo - that was supposed to say "Narada Boom (Insert)". Surprised no one ever caught that!

To clarify:

Narada Bing is the original opening cue of the movie, covering the opening logos up till the Narada emerges. In the final film, they completely dropped the cue, used "Opening" for the opening logos music, silence for the next couple scenes, then tracked music from "Nero Sighted" for the Narada emerging. On the Deluxe Edition, "Opening" covers up the first 49 seconds of "Narada Bing", so that bit has never been officially released.

Narada Boom is the next cue. For the scene where George is made acting captain by Robau a more militaristic Insert replaces that portion of the original cue, and the Insert has never been released. On the Deluxe Edition, a 16 second section from earlier in the cue has been snipped out for unknown reasons, and the Insert is not inserted in, we get the original cue.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

[fommes 161]

Thanks Jason!

I put "/" marks after any cue that is meant to flow into the next.

Thanks - I missed that. I'm a bit surprised that Narada Bing isn't supposed to flow into Boom, as it shares the same note if I'm not mistaken.

Narada Boom is the next cue. For the scene where George is made acting captain by Robau a more militaristic Insert replaces that portion of the original cue, and the Insert has never been released. On the Deluxe Edition, a 16 second section has been snipped out for unknown reasons.

Ah I see. If it's never been released officially or unofficially, I assume that's the film version then?

[Jay 42,685]

As I said the insert is used in the film yes. Is that what you're asking?

[fommes 161]

Yep - sorry for the superfluous question (could be that you got that from sheet music or something), I haven't got the film on DVD or BR yet myself

[Jay 42,685]

Sadly the sheet music for Star Trek hasn't leaked that I know of.

The Narada Boom Insert is the more militaristic section heard in the film during George and Robau's conversation. I prefer it over the original version as heard on the Deluxe Edition. Sadly the Insert cannot be ripped from the DVD without sound effects over it

[fommes 161]

Thanks for that. I should réally get this on DVD or so soon.

FYI, just caught another small error: in your description you say that Matter segues into Jehosafats, but you forgot the / in the track list.

[Jay 42,685]

Hmmm, that's a tricky one. In the final film it does indeed segue right from Matter? I Barely Know Her! to the revised opening to Jehosafts, but its unclear if it would have segued to the original opening of Jehosafats as well, or if part of the reason for having the revised opening was that the scene was re-edited.

I've heard a fan edit where Matter? I Barely Know Her! did overlap with Jehosafats and I wasn't super hot on it.

[fommes 161]

You're right - I've tried it and I'm not a big fan either.

What's the deal with the silence mid-track (near the end) in I've Fallen and I Can't Beam Up?

I'm editing it out I think - the silence is longer there than between tracks, so it hinders the listening experience a bit.

[Jay 42,685]

I think it was intentional that way, it's similar to the brief bit of silence towars the end of Chutes and Matter. I think it matched some cut of the film, though I forget what the extra music after the silence would have scored

[OneBuckFilms 456]

Reading all of this makes me want to play the score again.

[Bellosh 4,260]

I tried soooooo hard to fully get into this score. Thought the Deluxe Edition would do it for me...

As it is now, I listen to a few select tracks and the lovely end credits suite.

[Sweetmeats 2]

I would LOVE to hear the bits with the choir that were leaked.

[fommes 161]

# 5:00-5:45 the beginning of the cue "Matter? I Barely Know Her!", which features Nero's Theme. Additionally, from 5:40-5:45 a section from "Jehosafats" is used.

One last question: is this tracked (or rerecorded)? (And if so, is it the only tracked segment in the end credits?)

[Admiral Holdo 16]

It's rerecorded, there's some slight differences.

[fommes 161]

Thanks!

[Pieter Boelen 1,020]

Would it be possible for somebody to isolate the choir in "Back From Black" by substracting the OST track from the leaked one or something?

That way, you could have the film version. Right?

[Jay 42,685]

# 5:00-5:45 the beginning of the cue "Matter? I Barely Know Her!", which features Nero's Theme. Additionally, from 5:40-5:45 a section from "Jehosafats" is used.

One last question: is this tracked (or rerecorded)? (And if so, is it the only tracked segment in the end credits?)

The End Credits were completely re-recorded, even though portions of it used the same sheet music from some cues in the film. I should have explained it better in the main post

Would it be possible for somebody to isolate the choir in "Back From Black" by substracting the OST track from the leaked one or something?

That way, you could have the film version. Right?

I think that only works if the two tracks are IDENTICAL in volume and EQ, but theoretically yes that might work pretty well

[fommes 161]

Star Trek - Chronological order guide

- Soundtrack (OST), Deluxe Edition (DE), Bootleg (BL)

- Check with every track for fade-ins and -outs.

- Use the OST or DE as much as possible; the BL has been clipped.

- This is a least-possible-work guide to put everything in order. Ideally, because the bootleg is lossy, you would have to edit parts of tracks of the DE in place of the respective bootleg tracks' parts where the DE is the same. That requires a serious effort though.

01 Narada Bing - BL

02 Narada Boom - BL

03 Hack to the Future - DE (may also be segued into following track - it's your listening experience choice)

04 Nailin' the Kelvin / Labor of Love / Star Trek (v2) - OST/OST/BL

05 Head to Heart Conversation - DE

06 One Proud Mother - DE

07 Hella Bar Talk (Alternate) - OST

08 The Flask at Hand - BL/DE (edit for clean ending; you can fade out the BL track, too)

09 Welcome Back, Spock - BL

10 Vulcan Gets a Good Drilling - DE

11 Hangar Management / Enterprising Young Men - DE/BL

12 Flying into a Trphlthdl - DE

13 Nero Sighted - BL

14 Matter? I Barely Know Her! - DE

15 Jehosafats - DE

16 Chutes and Matter - DE

17 A Whole in My Hearth - DE

18 I've Fallen and I Can't Beam Up! - BL (silence mid-track can be edited out)

19 Spock Goes Spelunking - BL

20 An Endangered Species - BL

21 Galaxy's Worst Sushi Bar - DE

22 Mandatory Leave of Absence - DE

23 Dad's Route to School - DE

24 Frozen Dinner - DE

25 You Snowin' Me? - DE

26 Nice to Meld You - BL

27 Hail to the Chief - DE

28 I Gotta Beam Me - DE

29 Scotty's Tanked - DE

30 What's with You? - DE

31 Either Way, Someone's Going Down - DE (0.00-1.48)

32 A Half-Vulcan with a Plan - DE (1.48-end)

33 Trekking down the Narada - DE

34 Run and Shoot Offense - DE

35 Does it still McFly? - BL

36 Nero Death Experience - OST

37 Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns - OST

38 Black Holes Have a Lot of Pull - BL

39 Back from Black - BL

40 That New Car Smell - OST

41 To Boldly Go / End Credits - DE

42 Opening - OST

43 Star Trek (v3) (tracked) - OST/DE (edit for clean & less edited opening)

44 Hella Bar Talk (Film Version) - DE

45 Welcome Back, Spock (Without choir & erhu) - DE (edit out looped part)

46 Nero Sighted (Choirless) - DE

47 I've Fallen and I Can't Beam Up! (Alternate Mix) - DE (silence mid-track can be edited out)

48 Spock Goes Spelunking (Choirless) - DE

49 An Endangered Species (Choirless) - DE

50 Nice to Meld You (Choirless) - DE

51 Does It Still McFly? (Choirless) - OST

52 Spock Bans Offshore Drilling (Nero Death Experience) (Alternate) - website

53 Black Holes Have a Lot of Pull (Choirless) - DE (use opening of BL track)

54 Back from Black (Choirless) - DE

- Note 1: Star Trek (v3) is a tracked cue so it doesn't need to be included at all. Some who like it may prefer to keep it in as a sort of film edit, of course. I would recommmend not to edit the OST beginning like the DE cue and let it play in full, however - because that DE edit sucks esp. in the beginning.

- Note 2: The Alternate Mix of I"ve Fallen and I Can't Beam Up! is of course a 'Wrong Mix'. No need to keep it in unless you like it personally.

[Jay 42,685]

43 Star Trek (v3) (tracked) - OST/DE (edit for clean opening)

Why would anyone want to listen to this? It's just Enterprising Young Men all hacked up

45 Welcome Back, Spock (Choirless) - DE (edit out looped part)

The erhu is also mixed out of the film/DE version

47 I've Fallen and I Can't Beam Up! (Alternate Mix) - DE (silence mid-track can be edited out)

This isn't an alternate mix, its a production error on the DE. And why would you want to listen to it?

[OneBuckFilms 456]

I would probably swap 07 and 44, so we could have the film used version of the cue in place.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

43 Star Trek (v3) (tracked) - OST/DE (edit for clean opening)

Why would anyone want to listen to this? It's just Enterprising Young Men all hacked up

I like it. It transitions well from Labor of Love, and it's a pretty badass moment in the film itself.

[OneBuckFilms 456]

43 Star Trek (v3) (tracked) - OST/DE (edit for clean opening)

Why would anyone want to listen to this? It's just Enterprising Young Men all hacked up

I like it. It transitions well from Labor of Love, and it's a pretty badass moment in the film itself.

I'm inclined to agree. The segue to Star Trek (v3) from Labor of Love is a great moment for the film, even if it was done editorially.

I'm surprised to find this thread resurrected again.

[fommes 161]

Why would anyone want to listen to this? It's just Enterprising Young Men all hacked up

I fully agree.

Personally - although I néver include tracked material as a rule - I made an exception and used this as a sort of coda, to end the album (because I didn't feel it ended well otherwise). However, especially the beginning of the DE track is edited atrociously - it skips a crucial few notes, so I edited in the full version for the beginning.

(Also - it's perhaps a bit of an exception as this tracked cue has actually a place in the cue list?)

This isn't an alternate mix, its a production error on the DE. And why would you want to listen to it?

I know; now that we have the original, it's kind of an interesting error though - this wrong mix has something to it, personally. Also, it adds another cue to a decent list of alternate cues - so that in the end we have so much alternates that you could make an 'alternate' OST experience out of it (like ID4, Return of the Jedi) - which I always like, because I'd rather listen to two different album experiences, than one C&C album that has just a couple of alternates at the end that play after the album should have ended, if you know what I mean.

[King Mark 3,835]

Just one question, having not read the thread

Is it better to listen to rec sessions straight through or the 2 c.d. set?