New Varese Star Trek the Deluxe Edition!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Though it would at least be nice to have the alternative at the end of the album, if not just to compare and hear the original material.

[Jay 37,364]

The problem with including the final film version of the main title is that it is infact just an edit of Enterprising Young Men, so if you are listening to the score alone, you hear the EXACT SAME MUSIC not 8 minutes later. No good. They should have put one of Giacchino's original main titles into the flow of the score and kept EYM complete as its supposed to and not duplicated anything.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The problem with including the final film version of the main title is that it is infact just an edit of Enterprising Young Men, so if you are listening to the score alone, you hear the EXACT SAME MUSIC not 8 minutes later. No good. They should have put one of Giacchino's original main titles into the flow of the score and kept EYM complete as its supposed to and not duplicated anything.

I agree.

[fommes 153]

The problem with including the final film version of the main title is that it is infact just an edit of Enterprising Young Men, so if you are listening to the score alone, you hear the EXACT SAME MUSIC not 8 minutes later. No good. They should have put one of Giacchino's original main titles into the flow of the score and kept EYM complete as its supposed to and not duplicated anything.

Take note, Varèse!

[TownerFan 4,983]

The problem with including the final film version of the main title is that it is infact just an edit of Enterprising Young Men, so if you are listening to the score alone, you hear the EXACT SAME MUSIC not 8 minutes later. No good. They should have put one of Giacchino's original main titles into the flow of the score and kept EYM complete as its supposed to and not duplicated anything.

But then Varèse would have to deal with angry Trekkies that wanted the film version of the main title...

I too agree it's always preferable to respect the composer's original vision, but there are occasions in which you can't do better than choosing just one of the two options. In the end, there will be always someone disappointed.

[Jay 37,364]

But the film version main title IS on the CD - you just have to edit it yourself from EYM. It doesn't make musical sense to include an edit of a score cue in one place, and then the full score cue 8 minutes later.

If anything, they could have included the film version main title as a bonus track at the end of the second CD as a bonus track. No additional re-use fees would even be needed since the cue is already paid for.

[TownerFan 4,983]

But the film version main title IS on the CD - you just have to edit it yourself from EYM. It doesn't make musical sense to include an edit of a score cue in one place, and then the full score cue 8 minutes later.

If anything, they could have included the film version main title as a bonus track at the end of the second CD as a bonus track. No additional re-use fees would even be needed since the cue is already paid for.

Playing devil's advocate here, I would reply saying that probably not every fan is able or willing to sit down and make his own edit.

Some people really obsess about these things, you know. When Matessino did the Superman The Movie for Rhino, he presented an edited version of the main title march (actually a combination of main and end title recordings) because there were people who wanted to hear it exactly as it was heard in the movie.

Again, you can't please everyone in this kind of situation.

[Jay 37,364]

You CAN please everyone in this case, by including the original AND edited main title.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

But the film version main title IS on the CD - you just have to edit it yourself from EYM. It doesn't make musical sense to include an edit of a score cue in one place, and then the full score cue 8 minutes later.

If anything, they could have included the film version main title as a bonus track at the end of the second CD as a bonus track. No additional re-use fees would even be needed since the cue is already paid for.

Playing devil's advocate here, I would reply saying that probably not every fan is able or willing to sit down and make his own edit.

I think the best approach would have been to include both and let the listener decide which one they want in the body of the score. In fact Varese's approach seems quite unusual. I find it hard to believe there's any financial reason (why press a complete score, then cheapen out on 30 secs of original music), maybe Giacchino preferred the edit and how it worked in the film?

[TownerFan 4,983]

I think the best approach would have been to include both and let the listener decide which one they want in the body of the score. In fact Varese's approach seems quite unusual. I find it hard to believe there's any financial reason (why press a complete score, then cheapen out on 30 secs of original music), maybe Giacchino preferred the edit and how it worked in the film?

It's likely Giacchino liked this way too, I guess.

[Jay 37,364]

Maybe they couldn't afford to pay for more of the Courage material than they already paid for on the OST? Or they just wanted the Courage fanfare to not appear until the end, just like in the finished film?

[Delorean90 42]

Nah, the film version really is about 46 seconds long.

Son of a gun. Right you are.

Oh, well. I do really wish at least one of Giacchino's original main titles were included, but I'm sure this will be referenced in the liner notes, and I would imagine the originals will turn up in some form sooner or later. This is still a wealth of music that's being added, and it seems a fair bit is unused, so it'll be fun to hear all of this. I just hope Townson isn't reading the FSM boards...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Robert Townson has an intense dislike of Internet forums like FSM, Moviemisic.com and probably this one as well.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Joe (Datemeister) is gonna shit his pants when he sees this!

Man this is totally unexpected. First Star Trek III's complete score now this...wonder what other Star Trek scores we'll be getting this year! Man I'm soooooooooo going to order this!

glad you clarified, cause this is a shit score and I won't waste another dime on the 11 best Star Trek score.

[Datameister 2,043]

We wouldn't expect any more of you, Joey.

[Trent B 337]

glad you clarified, cause this is a shit score and I won't waste another dime on the 11 best Star Trek score.

Wow....okay.

[Jay 37,364]

Well I've been studying the complete cue list and the D.E. track times, and I do believe that the D.E. is complete after all. Other than, of course, the missing original main titles (there are two).... and the potentially missing choir overdubs for the final battle cues (I wish they'd put up samples that would let us know if they are in there!)

They simply combined shorter cues together a few times on the D.E., only using the title of one of the 2 cues that make up the track. Here are the titles that they didn't use:

Narada Bing

L Split

Vulcans Are Testy

Take Off Eh?

Warping Into A Trap

Red Shirt Diaries

Love In An Elevator

Did I Know My Father

You Gotta Be Vulcan Me

Come With Me Cupcake

Half Vulcan With A Plan

The only confusing thing is that they list Hangar Management as 2:46. Hopefully that's a typo and it's really 3:46. Everything else makes sense

[Thor 7,504]

Ha ha, trust KM to put a downer on this by somehow linking it to unreleased Williams music.

You're a bitter man, Mark!

Indeed Quint. KM if you wanna bitch about the release go do it on FSM and quit pissin' on everyone else' enjoyment here. Just because it's not a Williams release or Spartacus you get up in arms over it and think it's a waste or shit. You're almost as bad as Thor.

But only almost, right?

[Richard Penna 3,690]

Well I've been studying the complete cue list and the D.E. track times, and I do believe that the D.E. is complete after all.

Well that's good news

I thought it would be a bit silly of Varese to make this huge fanfare, splash out for 2 discs and then leave off 15 mins of music. Plus we know Giacchino hoped they could put out the full score @ some point, so it appears they took the opportunity by the horns.

You're almost as bad as Thor.

But only almost, right?

I assume you won't be buying this set? You'd be scarred for life by such a comprehensive presentation.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Here's my edumacated guess:

Narada Bing

I think this is probably tracked on the end of Star Trek, and is for the missiles tearing up the Narada.

L Split

Not sure what this one is.

Vulcans Are Testy

This would be when Spock says "I don't know" after being asked how that kid beat his test, that segue into the hall where Kirk steps forward.

Take Off Eh?

Not sure. Perhaps the short cue after Sulu "takes the Parking Break off", and Kirk and McCoy enter Sickbay.

Warping Into A Trap

The short, tense cue for the countdown to the Enterprise coming out of Warp at Vulcan.

Red Shirt Diaries

Not quite sure where this one fits in. Obviously has something to do with Olsen though

Love In An Elevator

This is probably connected to An Endangered Species, and is for the scene with Uhura and Spock in the turbolift.

Did I Know My Father

This is the short cue after the Mind Meld where Kirk speaks to Spock Prime about his father, and Spock reveals that he lived to see Kirk take command of the Enterprise.

You Gotta Be Vulcan Me

Not sure. One of the cues when Kirk confronts Spock before taking command maybe?

Come With Me Cupcake

Just after Scotty's Tanked, with Kirk and Scotty racing through Engineering to be arrested. "Come with Me, CUPCAKE !!!"

Half Vulcan With A Plan

The piece where Spock comes back to the Bridge and helps Kirk and Chekov plan their rescue of Pike. "You see? We are getting to know each other."

[paleo 63]

So, I ordered... glad I didn't buy the original CD now Does anyone know why Varese makes a big announcement that the first CD costs 4.50 for shipping, but then they charge $5.45? Do they actually count this as two CDs???

[fommes 153]

Well, since it HAS two CDs, perhaps that isn't too far-fetched

[paleo 63]

Well, since it HAS two CDs, perhaps that isn't too far-fetched

Well, that would be cheap of them... really

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Screen Archives is the same way. It is what it is, I guess.

[Trent B 337]

Well I've been studying the complete cue list and the D.E. track times, and I do believe that the D.E. is complete after all. Other than, of course, the missing original main titles (there are two).... and the potentially missing choir overdubs for the final battle cues (I wish they'd put up samples that would less us know if they are in there!)

They simply combined shorter cues together a few times on the D.E., only using the title of one of the 2 cues that make up the track. Here are the titles that they didn't use:

I really do hope the choir over dubs are with this release, would be a bit of a shame if they just did a copy and paste from the OST for those cues. Unless the choir was a last minute addition during the editing process.

As far as joining shorter cues together that seems like the most ideal thing to do, to avoid having to pay for each individual short cue.

The only confusing thing is that they list Hangar Management as 2:46. Hopefully that's a typo and it's really 3:46. Everything else makes sense

I think Varese has typoed cue lengths before with releases, haven't they?

[Henry B 50]

Maybe they couldn't afford to pay for more of the Courage material than they already paid for on the OST? Or they just wanted the Courage fanfare to not appear until the end, just like in the finished film?

Considering the lack of original main titles, apparently missing minute of "Hangar Management" and the lack of asterisks denoting use of the Courage theme, I think you're right that the unreleased cues containing the Courage theme were edited or removed for legal/financial reasons. Oh well, at least "Hangar Management" can be completed with a clean DVD rip, I think. The original main titles/stuff tracked into the Kirk/McCoy scene, not sure.

[Trent B 337]

It's still possible "Hangar Management" maybe a typo in the time. I think Varese has typoed track times for releases before.

The original main titles/stuff tracked into the Kirk/McCoy scene, not sure.

There's a tiny brief bit of sound effects from the shuttle but it's really not distracting at all. I'll most likely include it for my iPod.

[Trent B 337]

I've been thinking about something...

Vulcan Gets a Good Drilling

Maybe the cue that plays during Spock and Kirk's argument during Kirk's trial and possibly will have some unused music.

Then Hangar Management begins when it cuts to the hangar deck and ends before Enterprising Young Men. Just a thought.

Edit: Going by Joe's (Datameister) edit for Star Trek, "Hangar Management" from where it would begin to where I said would end is the exact same time as listed on Varese's page.

OR!!!! It's possible that the end of "Vulcan Gets A Good Drilling" the last 30 seconds of it, would cut to the music we hear when it shows Amanda stepping outside to see the pulse beam and then it cutting to Nero's ship with the statement of Nero's theme since that is only 30 seconds long.

Again that's just speculation..but as far as "Hangar Management" I am probably correct on that.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

I'm sure all the music is there Trent. Even Varese wouldn't screw this one up.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I may have to watch the film again to fully enjoy this.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

It seems like Varese has combined a few cues, the aforementioned Star Trek, with "Narada Bing" I presume, as well as Enterprising Young Men, which I believe would have the "Punch It" cue when the Enterprise jumps to Warp, and Kirk and McCoy arrive in Sickbay.

It remains to be seen if they have added the choir and percussion overdubs to cues that didn't have them, and whether "Hella Bar Talk" is the film version (without the horns when Kirk looks at the Enterprise across the field).

If they did do that, then the OST would serve as a source for alternates.

Datameister, one thing I plan on doing is adding Sabotage and Awasoruk Jam (from your edit) to my rip of this CD, then seeing if I can create a 70-80 minute "edit down" for an ideal "OST" experience.

I may also keep your "Nailin The Kelvin / Labor of Love / Main Title" cue, as it is a fantastic listening experience in that form.

[Jay 37,364]

Why would you possibly want to listen to the Beastie Boys in the middle of enjoying a Michael Giacchino score?

And yes, as I stated earlier, there are 9 tracks on the Varese D.E. that combine two of Giaccino's cues

http://spreadsheets....Llg&output=html

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Thanks for that Jason !!!

[Datameister 2,043]

Are those real cue titles?

[Jay 37,364]

Yes. I already posted them earlier in the thread as well

[Datameister 2,043]

Huh, I missed that somehow! Thanks!

[Trent B 337]

I still doubt the choir over dubs will be present. I was told those are separate fees and maybe still too expensive for Varèse to pay. Plus those choir over dubs were last minute changes to the score something that Giacchino didn't really plan.

As far as the drum over dubs go, if they weren't there on the OST I doubt they'd be there on this release. I was told by someone that even Chris Tilton said they won't be on this release since those drum dubs were done by him.

Honestly I can live with the fact if the drum over dubs and the choir over dubs weren't present.

Also I wouldn't put that Beastie Boys song in with the score...that would totally kill the listening experience.

I will definitely be joining cues together like in the film. IE: Nailin' The Kelvin / Labor Of Love / Main Titles. Of course they'll still be separate cues but have a gapless playback.

Edit: Looking back at the track times from the Deluxe Edition and the OST, why is "Labor Of Love" shorter on the Deluxe Edition? Also it seems this release has fewer than 2,500 copies remaining according to Varèse's page.

[Wojo 2,453]

I wish they would've combined the end credits and the track that immediately precedes it. No biggie, I can do that myself.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

I don't understand why they were separated to begin with. Maybe it's a Varese 'thing' as Ice Age 3 sounds like it's been attacked by a rogue editor

So the final assessment (from the spreadsheet - amazing work!) is that apart from the fabled 'original' main titles and some choir overdubs, this set is the complete score?

[Jay 37,364]

Most of the times it seems to be because they play back to back in the film anyway. Its also cheaper for the labels sometimes.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

How is it cheaper to press more tracks?

It's not just back to back cues though - they've just sliced cues into bits. In fact, the sole reason I bought the physical CD was to join them back together losslessly.

[Trent B 337]

If they had each cue separate and on their own that would have been very costly to do for a release like this considering how new it is. It would be cheaper for them to join cues together IE: "Enterprising Young Men" and "Punch It".

Rich,

Also yes it is the complete score which will also include the unused music that was dropped.

[Jay 37,364]

How is it cheaper to press more tracks?

It's not just back to back cues though - they've just sliced cues into bits. In fact, the sole reason I bought the physical CD was to join them back together losslessly.

It sounds like you're talking about Ice Age 3 - I know nothing about that score.

I know its cheaper for them to release LESS tracks, per posts from MV about The Fugitive and Mike Matessino about Independence Day. Luckily for us he was nice enough not to cross-fade them over each other so we can still separate on their own.

Yes, I do believe the Varese D.E. of Star Trek is 100% complete, minus, as you mentioned - Main Title (Version 1), Main Title (Version 2), and the last minute choir overdubs, if those are in fact not included. Its also possible that the new set is missing the first minute of "Narada Bing" if they tracked "Star Trek" over it. It's also possible that the 15 second transition to Kirk's trial cue is not included, but I believe we will get that inside of "Vulcan Gets A Good Drilling". If that 15 second cue is not included, I won't lose a microsecond of sleep over it.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I wonder if putting the seamless track split in the cue may be partially for matketing.

If it looks like 15 tracks, rather than 14 tracks, it then looks like more music, even if musically it makes no difference.

To me, this is minor at most as far as issues go.

[Datameister 2,043]

Yeah, they omitted a similar cue from the "complete" soundtrack to LOST's S3 finale, Jay. Not the worst thing that could happen.

[Trent B 337]

Its also possible that the new set is missing the first minute of "Narada Bing" if they tracked "Star Trek" over it.

Maybe, maybe not. We won't know for certain until we get the set in our hands. It's possible they did something similar to The Matrix: Deluxe Edition...they may have left off the "Star Trek" (aka Logos) cue from this set so that all of "Narada Bing" would be on it. For The Matrix they left off "A Virus" from the D.E. set which is included on the OST.

[Datameister 2,043]

Yeah, I'd rather have the complete cue than have the OST "Star Trek" again. Although it begs the question...if that's what they did, why confusingly entitle new track "Star Trek" as well, instead of just calling it "Narada Bing"? That'd kill two birds with one stone, even - then the "Narada Bing", "Narada Boom" joke would make sense.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

If they had each cue separate and on their own that would have been very costly to do for a release like this considering how new it is. It would be cheaper for them to join cues together IE: "Enterprising Young Men" and "Punch It".

Rich,

Also yes it is the complete score which will also include the unused music that was dropped.

Sorry, I was talking about Ice Age 3 there, just to clear that up. With Trek, I can fully understand them joining cues together which are next to each other. Can be easier to listen to them that way actually - I hate isolated 20 second cues

I do wonder if something has changed in the world of union fees in the last year, with JNH's Last Airbender getting over an hour, recent Powell scores getting full CDs and Silvestri's A-Team getting a similarly packed CD.

[Trent B 337]

Sorry, I was talking about Ice Age 3 there, just to clear that up. With Trek, I can fully understand them joining cues together which are next to each other. Can be easier to listen to them that way actually - I hate isolated 20 second cues

Ah okay no worries.

Also I too find it weird that they would call "Narada Bing", "Star Trek".

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I suspect Star Trek probably includes a segment of Narada Bing, possibly part of the segment used in the film.