GAME OF THRONES

[Jay 37,368]

Yes of course, once the camera stayed there it was clear what was going to happen, I meant that its unlikely anyone unspoiled sitting there after the explosion immediately though "well, certainly now Tommen is going to immediately kill himself!"

[Marian Schedenig 8,195]

 

On 27.6.2016 at 8:26 AM, Stefancos said:

First of all the scoring for the early Kings Landing stuff was really impressive. Gentle piano slowly augmented by strings. Probably the best sustained musical sequence in the entire series so far. Since I usually slag of Ramin's work as being substandard I also have to mention when he really does enhance the scene.

 

I don't quite get everone's excitement for this. Yes, compared to nearly all the other music in the show, it was outstanding. But that says more about Djawadi's writing for the other episodes than this latest one. It was nice enough, although it seemed a bit pop oriented for this sort of series. At least it didn't just repeat the same themes, unvaried, ad nauseam as usually. It added a piano rhythm.

 

Also loved the scene where Ser Davos confronts the Red Woman, and Jon has no choice but to let her go. Where will she go too? back to the Brotherhood? Kings Landing? I doubt after her encounter with the Sparrows Cersie will have much patience with another religion.

 

Wonderful acting by Liam Cunningham in that scenes. Jonathan Pryce was also particularly cool in this episode.

 

I guess we will get more of Dorne. It was a bit confusing seeing Varys there and later standing next to Dany. Is he playing his own game, or will Dorne and the Tyrells fight alongside Dany for the Iron Throne?

 

It has been argued above how that's just a result from poor time telling on the series. Perhaps it is. But the impression it made on me was that it was either some wicked, as of yet unexplained, plot twist, or a major plot hole.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Apparently its neither

[Marian Schedenig 8,195]

On 27.6.2016 at 6:08 PM, Jay said:

I think Sam in Oldtown will learn more about the White Walkers, and learn about where to get more Valryian Steel and/or more Dragonglass.

 

 

Considering it's named dragonglass, what are the chances of dragonfire being used in its production?

On 27.6.2016 at 10:34 PM, Jay said:

In the previous episode, Tyrion told Daenerys about how the Mad King hid wildfire under all the major parts of King's Landing including the through-ways, etc.  Since it took ~20 years for anybody to find it, do we think the little birds only found a stash under the Sept of Baelor but not any other stashes?  Or was the Sept's stash all that was left?  Or did they find it all, but stockpiled it all under the Sept to make the biggest possible explosion and now there's none left?

 

Before this episode (or, in fact, before I read the prophecies a few pages earlier in this thread), I was under the impression that Tyrion had basically used up the wildfire stock at the Battle of the Blackwater.

On 28.6.2016 at 6:59 PM, Jay said:

 

Yes, its confirmed.  The Tower of Joy isn't like "Lyanna Stark's favorite hiding spot" or something.  It's a tower way down south, in Dorne, by the Red Mountains, and was one of Prince Rhaegar's favorite places (it was him who named it The Tower Of Joy). [...]

 

Where does all this information come from? I know that I suffer from information overload when watching the show (and the same with the books, plus it's been three years since I've read them), but I'm not aware of even hearing of the "Tower of Joy" before your comments.

[Jay 37,368]

I just looked it up online.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You meticulously studied everything....

 

admit it!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

Jojen Reed, Barristan Selmy, Mance Raydar, Shireen Baratheon, Hizdahr zo Loraq, Selyse Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Myrcella Baratheon, Doran Martell, Trystane Martell, Roose Bolton, Walda Bolton, Shaggydog, Alliser Thorne, Summer, Three Eyed Raven, Leaf, Hodor, The Waif, Rickon Stark, Smalljon Umber, Ramsay Bolton, Grand Maester Pycelle, Lancel Lannister, The High Sparrow, Loras Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Tommen Baratheon, Black Walder, Lothar Frey, Walder Frey, and many others are all still alive in the books.

 

 Aemon Targaryen, the Lord of Bones, Balon Greyjoy, and Kevan Lannister are dead, though.

 

Just a small nitpick, the Smalljon is actually dead in the books, too (killed at the Red Wedding), but the Greatjon is still alive (captive at the Twins).

[Jay 37,368]

D'oh!

[KK 3,307]

I definitely agree Steef that this season is hardly the show's best. Its been one thats tried my patience as well. But by sensation and spectacle, this episode definitely ranks up there as one if the hallmark hours of the show. It was just really good TV.

[Jay 37,368]

I think the show is at the right place to be after 6 seasons. But indeed the path it took to get there was not one of consistent tone and pace.

 

The first four seasons were more detailed and slower paced, and the last two were less subtle, less meticulously plotted, and way faster paced.

 

I think it's a result of the medium. The books can maintain a slow detailed pace forever. The show has to wrap up before all the actors want to be free of their contracts to pursue other roles.

 

Personally, I'm completely fine with the change in pace over the years.  The end game is going to be exciting, and I can always watch the earlier seasons again any time I want.

 

I like the 10 weeks a year when there's daily discussion of what's going to happen next on the show. It's like when Lost and Breaking Bad were on.

[Red 75]

I thought this season was great, personally. Certainly not without its peaks and valleys but I felt like the narrative was moving with a purpose, unlike last season. It is faster and less meticulous but disparate elements are coming together in satisfying ways, punctuated by some of the more audacious things they've ever pulled. 

[Jay 37,368]

Agreed. Its like they realized what didn't work last season and made up for it.

 

The only thing they didn't execute well this season imo was the end of Arya's training.

[Quintus 5,399]

It was the best season evar! They just keep getting better and bettar! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Dragons versus zombies!

[Jay 37,368]

For anyone wondering about Jon Snow's parentage after watching the episode, here is a nice, easy to read explanation with pictures that breaks it down

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/VVAoG

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[oierem 152]

20 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

It has been argued above how that's just a result from poor time telling on the series. Perhaps it is. But the impression it made on me was that it was either some wicked, as of yet unexplained, plot twist, or a major plot hole.

 

In the very first episode of the series, Jamie and Cersei are in King's Landing. A couple of scenes later they arrive to Winterfell, after having travelled "for months".

[Jay 37,368]

The scene of them talking in King's Landing was a pickup scene, shot months after the entire first season when HBO decided the episodes should be longer than the ones B&W had turned in so far.

[Marian Schedenig 8,195]

I don't remember that moment in particular. But it's not the same as having one character on one continent, then on another continent just moments later, and then BACK on the first continent a few more moments later.

By the way, something nobody seems to have mentioned: Jon Snow's death and resurrection very much do serve a purpose. He's been freed from his obligations to the Night's Watch so he can take over his role as King in the North (or possibly more) without breaking his oath.

[Jay 37,368]

Are you talking about Varys?  He didn't do that.

He left Essos in Episode 8, then was next seen in Dorne in Episode 10, meeting with Olenna and the Martells.

 

The money shot of everyone on ships in the ocean is supposed to be them sailing from Dorne northward, not them leaving Essos (that happened off screen).

IOW, Varys didn't travel back to Essos after Dorne, then get back on a ship again to go back to Westeros again; He waited for Dany in Dorne.

Ditto for all those ships with Martell and Tyrell sigils on them; They didn't sail all the way to The Bay of Dragons just to turn around and sail back to Westeros; They all met at Dorne and then the combined fleet headed north together to end the season.

 

 

http://wikiofthrones.com/2458/heres-daenerys-already-reached-westeros-close/

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

I'm not entirely sure about that. Perhaps the Tyrells and Martells sent some ships to Meereen to augment the existing fleet (which Tyrion had described as "possibly...barely" enough to transport the army to Westeros), and Varys decided to accompany them just for the cool photo op. Also, in the Inside the Episode feature, Dan Weiss spoke of the fleet as sailing west at that point. I wouldn't be shocked to see the fleet stop off at Dorne early in Season 7.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,195]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

IOW, Varys didn't travel back to Essos after Dorne, then get back on a ship again to go back to Westeros again; He waited for Dany in Dorne.

 

Oh? That was handled really poorly then. Not once did I even think that the shot of the fleet was anything else than them leaving Essos.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed. They should have included the Sandsnakes in that shot.

[Jay 37,368]

Hey maybe that webpage I got that from is wrong.  Who knows!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You mean you might be wrong?

[Jay 37,368]

I guess it is plausible that after the Dorne meeting, Varys had a reason to sail back to Essos instead of just waiting for Dany there.

 

No matter what, I'm sure its supposed to be implied that the fleet finally setting sail is supposed to be months and months after Grey Worm killed the slave masters.

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't know why you didn't just read the books instead tbh. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

The sun is directly behind the fleet and low in the sky in that final scene, which narrows things down to three distinct possibilities:

1. It's early in the day and they're sailing west.
2. It's late in the day and they're sailing east, having decided there's still no rush for the Westeros invasion.
3. Khal Drogo is about to come back.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or they didnt care about that and just wanted a sun in their dramatic finale.

[Jay 37,368]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

Or they didnt care about that and just wanted a sun in their dramatic finale.

 

I think so too

 

The whole logistic thingy of who was where when at what time and how did they get from her eto there, etc was basically ignored by them to have the final shot they wanted

[oierem 152]

On 30/6/2016 at 9:03 PM, Jay said:

The scene of them talking in King's Landing was a pickup scene, shot months after the entire first season when HBO decided the episodes should be longer than the ones B&W had turned in so far.

Wrong.

-The scene was always there.

-The "pickup"scenes that were shot to make the episodes longer were not shot months after the shooting period ended. They were shot during the very last weeks of the shoot.

 

In any case, you have Cersei and Jaime (and the King) in King's Landing, and after a few scenes they're at Winterfel

In episode 108 Sansa writes a letter for Rob in King's Landing; in the very next scene Rob is reading the letter in Winterfell, then he sends ravens to all the lords in the North and a few scenes later all the lords are having dinner at Winterfell.

There are many other examples that show that

1) different storylines aren't shown in a strictly chronological order

2) days or weeks can pass between scenes in the same episode

21 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Oh? That was handled really poorly then. Not once did I even think that the shot of the fleet was anything else than them leaving Essos.

Of course they were leaving Essos!

[Jay 37,368]

Why did the Highgarden ships sail all the way to Essos instead to Dorne to meet Dany there?

 

Isn't it supposed to be treacherous to sail around the Doom of Valyria?  Now all those ships have to do it twice!

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

Why did the Highgarden ships sail all the way to Essos instead to Dorne to meet Dany there?

 

I think it's because:

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

the whole logistic thingy of who was where when at what time and how did they get from her eto there, etc was basically ignored by them to have the final shot they wanted

 

 

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

Isn't it supposed to be treacherous to sail around the Doom of Valyria?

 

I guess Tyrion was able to tell Varys that those rumours about the Doom still ruling Valyria are very much exaggerated!

[Jay 37,368]

Aha!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I wonder what significance the fact that Varys and Tyrion enlisted the help of the R'hllor faith to promote Dany may have. Fun tidbit: The triumphant music when they're setting sail has the Lord of Light motif as a counterpoint to Dany's theme.

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

I hadn't noticed that similarity before. The use of that motif in the dragon music goes back at least to the scene in which Daenerys incarcerates Viserion and Rhaegal in Season 4 (Breaker of Chains on the soundtrack). I wonder whether the "Lord of Light" connection is deliberate or accidental...

[MedigoScan 324]

I know I heard the Greyjoy theme in there, didnt realize the LordofLight was in it too

[Incanus 5,715]

There is a Lord of Light theme?!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There's a Deanerys theme?

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

42 minutes ago, MedigoScan said:

I know I heard the Greyjoy theme in there, didnt realize the LordofLight was in it too

 

It isn't exactly (as far as I know). But the "Dragon" theme is frequently accompanied by a four-note motif which has a very similar, though not identical, shape to the main figure in the "Lord of Light" theme.

 

It can be heard (unaccompanied) as the first four notes that play at this point in the show: https://youtu.be/LX3eBgfzKm8?t=134

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,195]

2 hours ago, Incanus said:

There is a Lord of Light theme?!!!

 

It's repeated in an endless loop in pretty much every scene Melisandre or other Red Priests are in.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

And it's similar to the second "half" of the opening theme, isn't it?  Am I the only one that thinks that?

[Glóin the Dark 1,222]

Good call!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Djawadi was told something by Martin!  The opening theme is the song of ice and fire!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You know, Hardhome was the first time I revisited a scene from this show multiple times.  The Sept has been replayed quite a bit now too.  I'm quite excited to revisit this whole series.

[KK 3,307]

16 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I hadn't noticed that similarity before. The use of that motif in the dragon music goes back at least to the scene in which Daenerys incarcerates Viserion and Rhaegal in Season 4 (Breaker of Chains on the soundtrack). I wonder whether the "Lord of Light" connection is deliberate or accidental...

 

6 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

And it's similar to the second "half" of the opening theme, isn't it?  Am I the only one that thinks that?

 

Interesting! Never noticed that myself. I thought you guys were referring to the variations of the ostinato.

 

But, I'm going to go with assuming it's a coincidence.

[Quintus 5,399]

The crystalline music north of the Wall has been the most effective underscore in this show for me. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The stuff that opened the whole show, right?  Glass harmonica type thing.  Yeah I like that.

 

25 minutes ago, KK said:

 

 

Interesting! Never noticed that myself. I thought you guys were referring to the variations of the ostinato.

 

But, I'm going to go with assuming it's a coincidence.

 

You know, I'm not really convinced it's a coincidence.  Even if there's no hidden meaning to it, it's too close to not be intentional.  It's the same figure, just twisted a bit to fit the mode of the theme.

[KK 3,307]

I always felt that figure pops up across a couple of the motifs doesn't it? From what I remember, many of the themes have that similar step-wise outline underneath. I just thought of it as a Djawadi-ism.

 

13 minutes ago, Lonnegan said:

The crystalline music north of the Wall has been the most effective underscore in this show for me. 

 

Agreed. The Many-Faced God stuff also made for good underscore.