Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, Mattris said: How were "The Force can be wielded by anybody" and "greatness can come from the humblest of places" significant themes of TLJ? Um... Rey’s entire emotional arc and the crux of her relationship with Kylo? Luke’s monologue about the Jedi’s pride and guardianship of the Force being their downfall? The... the final shot of the film? I mean it can’t really get much more on point than that can it? 29 minutes ago, Mattris said: Delusion? The irony! As a customer, I am not entitled to anything. Just as Disney/Lucasfilm are not entitled to the fans' business. They’re entitled to the billions they’re still making from those fans from ticket sales and merchandise They’re also entitled to do whatever they want with the franchise they bought for $5 billion. I’m sure they’ll consider offers if enough fans want to “buy it back” from them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, Mattris said: Rey is the principal protagonist of the sequel trilogy. For most fans to accept her, she must be someone of significance. False. Most fans love her even if she's the daughter of drunken traders. I'll be really disappointed if Abrams changes this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Abrams might not be woke enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Holko said: Peregrine Took Well, technically Peregrin Took was the heir to the position of Thain, the most important position of power in the Shire, so... 2 hours ago, Mattris said: 14 months ago, would you have guessed that the fandom would be split in half after TLJ... that SOLO would have lost $200M No. But I'm still sure Episode IX will have a big haul. 2 hours ago, Mattris said: Rey's powers and origin must be explained more completely than 'she is the good to Kylo's bad'. Based on a passage in one of the Aftermath novels, Rey could have come from a Force test-tube... of Palpatine's creation. Its true that they kind of painted themselves into a corner by making the character so powerful, but of the two choices of leaving his strength unexplained or having her connected to some pre-established lineage (which is just dumb) I prefer the former. Neither are terribly good choices, to be sure. 1 hour ago, Demodex said: I'll be really disappointed if Abrams changes this. It'll never happen. He must have approved of this choice of Johnson's: he was the film's executive producer. Besides, I believe its the obvious choice for any sane writer/director to NOT reveal Rey to be related to someone. I sure wouldn't have done so, if I were directing the film. * At any rate, he has more than enough on his plate pushing the story forward towards its conclusion (which is an absolutely monumental task), to have the time and energy to go back and retcon such an element. ______________ * By the way, @Mattris, if I got my hand on episode IX, you would have hated it much more than The Last Jedi, I assure you. I'd invent some eucatastrophe in which all force-users are forever cut-off from The Force. I'm still hoping for that kind of ending, to be honest. Maybe I would've blown up The Falcon, too. Perhaps even done away with the opening crawl. Johnson doesn't look too bad now, does he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Oh good Lord. None of those trashpile star wars novels are canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Also "Binary Sunset" has a very distinct mood when thought about as a story of an exiled war hero living for 20 years in the desert, alone, then reemerging to help defeat the Empire.... Yeah, "The Force theme" really is the theme for old Ben. Its not just in how its applied in the original Star Wars: its in the musical qualities of the tune. After all, what's the point of coming up with such a melancholic tune for a transcendant force (essentially a stand-in for God)? As a theme for an ageing war veteran in hiding, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 And in The Last Jedi its a "every-vaguely-impactful-moment theme."😉 From memory, its a frame of mind that Williams acted upon, to a lesser extent, in Attack of the Clones and a bit in Revenge of the Sith, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Hopefully little regard is given to the prequels in the Skywalker saga finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Fabulin said: it starts playing cued for the shot of Obi-wan's subtly covering himself with his robes Unlike what seems to be common belief, I'm not under the impression that Williams deliberately used the theme more for Obi-Wan in this film, as if he thought that it'll morph better into Star Wars, where its his theme. I think its just a happy coincendence, or rather the natural outcome of Obi-Wan becoming the character the audience follows and sides with in the second half of the film. The more we see of him, the more his presence is going to line up with statements of the theme, obviously. 6 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: Hopefully little regard is given to the prequels in the Skywalker saga finale. On the one hand, it'd be great if Abrams can give us something that feels like a genuine conclusion of all nine films. But I don't think that's really reasonable to ask of him, especially not within the timeframe he was given on this film. So I don't imagine you'll see too many prequel callbacks here, if at all. Honestly, if he manages to provide an even half-decent wrap-up to this trilogy alone, I'd be surprised. Returning to the "what-I-would-have-done" corner, I'd reintroduce an ageing Jar Jar and have him be brutally killed. That'd be satisfying, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Returning to the "what-I-would-have-done" corner, I'd reintroduce an ageing Jar Jar and have him be brutally killed. That'd be satisfying, right? Steady... steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Fabulin said: my thoughts have always been to just have Christinsen[...]play one great scene as Anakin's ghost visible to Kylo Ren. You're actually not alone: In theory, I'd be sweet to have the film actually be a cap to all nine entries, but its just too much to expect of JJ Abrams. Offering a good conclusion to two previous films is hard enough; to six - excruciatingly hard; to nine? Nearly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 no no no no, we're not reinforcing the blurays being canon. CG Sebastian Shaw's head in like Cushing! Chen G. and Fabulin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Absolutely. Besides, ain't no chance Disney'll do that. Honestly, I don't know where Chris got this idea from. I mean, I get some of his arguments, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Windu was the chosen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Darth Jar Jar in IX or I jump out of my ground floor window The Illustrious Jerry and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I will try. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Unlike what seems to be common belief, I'm not under the impression that Williams deliberately used the theme more for Obi-Wan in this film, as if he thought that it'll morph better into Star Wars, where its his theme. I think its just a happy coincendence, or rather the natural outcome of Obi-Wan becoming the character the audience follows and sides with in the second half of the film. The more we see of him, the more his presence is going to line up with statements of the theme, obviously. On the one hand, it'd be great if Abrams can give us something that feels like a genuine conclusion of all nine films. But I don't think that's really reasonable to ask of him, especially not within the timeframe he was given on this film. So I don't imagine you'll see too many prequel callbacks here, if at all. Honestly, if he manages to provide an even half-decent wrap-up to this trilogy alone, I'd be surprised. Returning to the "what-I-would-have-done" corner, I'd reintroduce an ageing Jar Jar and have him be brutally killed. That'd be satisfying, right? It would be best to forget the prequels all together. They are a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,335 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, JoeinAR said: It would be best to forget the prequels all together. They are a mistake. What about Return Of The Jedi? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Alexcremers said: What about Return Of The Jedi? You and I have had many discussions regarding this film. However; unlike the prequels this is not a total dumpster fire. It does seem Disneyfied long before its time. I do have a solution that would have helped the film. The ewoks should have been devilish dangerous creatures with a strong love of home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I don't think its any worse than Revenge of the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 At least ROTJ has heart. ROTS is dour and soulless from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 No more loose wire jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: The ewols... What are they? 1 hour ago, dougie said: No more loose wire jokes. Yeah, let's keep this conversation grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 This thread is more interesting than a MacLean's magazine when there isn't an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: I don't think its any worse than Revenge of the Sith. Oh its not. RoTJ is a far superior film than Sith despite its flaws. 1 hour ago, Richard said: What are they? Yeah, let's keep this conversation grounded. Richard don't force me to tie you up at the dinner table and then serve a 4 course home cooked family meal while you watch because I will. Naïve Old Fart and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's sometimes interesting what the fans seem to want - I'm in a bunch of SW FB groups and have browsed a few SW forums, and about the same number of people list RotS as list ESB for their favourite film in the saga, and even outside the polls, RotS appears to have a huge appeal among SW fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Set your tele to black and white, and ROTS really feels like its matinee serial inspirations. In fact, in 2005 while it was still in cinemas, I had a bootleg copy of ROTS on VHS, and the sound had that poor quality to it that resembled some cheapo tape of a 1930s movie, and I loved it. And Williams' score had that degraded tape sound that reminded me of a Korngold score that was rotting away. I wonder if I still have that tape?? The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Bofur01 said: RotS appears to have a huge appeal among SW fans I know a couple very discerning filmgoers/filmmakers who rank it among their favourites, with rankings of ****1/5 or even a full *****. I'm hardly that enamoured with it, but I do think its a fine film. Sure, the final action scene is a major let-down, and Lucas' plain cinematographical style (outside of the opening, CGI-d long take) feels particularly at odds with this specific story. Having said that, when Obi Wan cries in anguish of what's become of Anakin, I really felt it; and you have to give Lucas credit for making scenes like the immolation as graphic as he did. Plus, Ian McDiarmid is just on another level throughout the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, JoeinAR said: Richard don't force me to tie you up at the dinner table and then serve a 4 course home cooked family meal while you watch because I will. I've tasted your cooking; I'll be begging you to tie me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2019 . The Illustrious Jerry, Chen G. and Docteur Qui 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Fabulin said: McDiarmid qualifying as good acting, Being that he's given no direction from behind the camera, he's incredible. He's completely believable as a presidential figure (my sister says he looks like Israel's previous president) and then he just goes nuts, which is tons of fun. I love the scene where he gives some backstory. He has this little smirk or two which speak volumes. And to speak to John's point of the film having heart, if there's a relationship in the prequels which rings true, its the father-son dynamic of Palpatine and Anakin. McDiarmid really brings it alive. Great actor. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 He hams it up. Good acting....nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Even when he does go a step too far ("No! No! NO!") its at least fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Its the job of the director to pull the performances out of his cast. Lucas, by his own admission, isn't terribly good at it; he also doesn't do a lot of takes. Some scenes in these films, you can feel are just another take or two away from being done right. But frankly its the sort of thing I can somewhat overlook if the story works. Other than the Jedi being jerks (which is an issue in all three prequels) and Anakin's transition being a tad too ubrupt, I think it works here, mostly. At the end of the day, I think I don't just like movies; I like to like movies. No point being overly picky when it comes to these things. 32 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Guiness (old classy English actor) in IV[...]McDiarmid in I, II and III That's the thing, though. For the first half of Revenge of the Sith, McDiarmid is doing to the film the same thing that Alec Guiness did to the original: he elevates it and gives it a sense of class. But, unlike Guiness, who continues to play the wise sage throughout, McDiarmid turns on a dime and goes batsh*t insane at the midpoint. That's a very tricky role to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Even when he does go a step too far ("No! No! NO!") its at least fun to watch. I always thought that was hilarious, but rewatching it after all these years, it seems more like he wasn't shrouding his true identity any longer, and that croaky sith voice is allowed to come through. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 hours ago, JoeinAR said: Oh good Lord. None of those trashpile star wars novels are canon. Actually technically they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Let's never forget the most wonderful thing that the Extended Universe bullshit gave us: Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Demodex said: Actually technically they are. The new Disney EU supposedly is, but the old Legends EU never was canon in relation to the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Demodex said: Actually technically they are. No they are not. Only the films are canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: No they are not. Only the films are canon. Yes, they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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