Star Wars Disenchantment

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Mattris isn't complicated, Steve.  We just need to figure out what he's after.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

We're not intimidated by thugs!

[John 2,032]

I know why Mattris chooses to have his little... group therapy sessions in broad daylight. I know why he’s afraid to go out at night. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Gimme one reason I shouldn't have ma boy here pull ya head off

[Mattris 416]

How do you know I don't go out at night?

 

I'm hoping Disney/Lucasfilm/JJ is holding a "group therapy session" with the fans. Shame it had to involve so much animosity. The upheaval (that the film-makers caused) could have been avoided had they approached this differently... but that clearly wasn't their intention. It all makes sense to me now, though.

 

Last call for theories before I blow this up...

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Sorry @Mattris but I'm done with this convo. A month is way too long to re-engage on this topic. I haven't read your post but I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it. Good luck, and I genuinely hope you enjoy Episode IX.

[SteveMc 2,674]

I'm for the fireworks.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

And here we go.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

What were you trying to prove?  That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Sorry @Mattris but I'm done with this convo. A month is way too long to re-engage on this topic. I haven't read your post but I'm sure you put a lot of thought into it. Good luck, and I genuinely hope you enjoy Episode IX.

 

Sorry, I didn't know your posts had an expiration date. I get many complaints for posting too much, but you're complaining that I took too long to respond. I chose to take time to gather my thoughts... and live my life outside of the JWFan forums. Perhaps you did read my post and have realized that I made legitimate points to which you could not formulate to worthy response. Or maybe are too lazy to respond. In any case, I hope you reconsider your decision to leave this topic.

 

Since my upcoming thoughts direct involve the plot of Episode IX, I've decided to post them in the primary Episode IX topic.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Mate, I’m just exhausted at your posts and attitude. The chip on your shoulder is staggering. Good luck.

[Mattris 416]

In case you haven't noticed, Disney/Lucasfilm is majorly fu**ing with Star Wars and its fandom in countless ways. They make products the fans don't want, insult them, and allow the media to run with false narratives. So pardon me if I have seem like I have a group therapy session" with the fans. Shame it had to involve so much animosity. The upheaval (that the film-makers caused) could have been avoided had they approached this differently... but that clearly wasn't their intention. It all makes sense to me now, though.

[Mattris 416]

My theory for Episode IX:

 

As he mentioned to Anakin in Episode III, Emperor Palpatine was able to achieve the Dark Side Force power to stop himself from dying... and will return, still playing the long game in his quest for ultimate power.

 

As a contingency plan in case of his 'death', Palaptine created and programmed Rey to remain on Jakuu until activated. While she didn't understand the Force, it flowed through her - more so as Kylo's powers grew. Her mission: Follow your instinct, even if it means (temporarily) leaving the planet.

 

An elder of one of the villages on Jakku, Lor San Tekka (Max Von Sydow's character in TFA) summoned Poe and handed him "the map to Skywalker" - a map that Kylo already knew that Lor San Tekka possessed. The map to was placed in BB-8, who was recused by Rey, taken from the planet along with Finn, who was "programmed from birth" and may have a still have a larger role to play.

 

Palpatine also arranged that the Millennium Falcon would be on Jakuu when the Force awakened in Rey. The Falcon would lead her to Han, who would lead her to Leia and the Resistance forces, which would be destroyed by the Force Order - but not before Luke Skywalker is lured to return and/or is killed. 

 

Palpatine knew that supremely-powerful and overconfident Snoke would be a threat to his lust for power. So he allowed Snoke to seduce Ben Solo to the Dark Side. Just as Palpatine clouded the Jedi's minds during the prequels (which allowed his rise to power), he intervened so that Kylo could betray Snoke.

 

Palpatine will return in physical form, perhaps in a cloned body.

 

Ben's path to the Dark Side began when he learned that his family had kept the truth from him... the truth that his grandfather, Anakin Skywalker was Darth Vader. For concealing this revelation from the public, Leia was shunned by the New Republic and created the Resistance to combat any threats. Unfortunately, the Republic chose to disband their military in an effort to pacify the galaxy.

 

Ben will be visited by the Force ghost of Anakin, who reveals to him that he turned to the Light Side before sacrificing himself to save his son (Luke). Ben will turn to the Light Side and sacrifice himself to save his mother. Along with Rey (who could possibly turn to the Dark Side), Ben will defeat Palpatine for good.

 

I believe that there are no coincidences in these films. The main events were planned, primarily by JJ Abrams. Snoke, Holdo, DeeJay, and Rose are unimportant: a shell-game to keep the audience off the scent of the bigger picture. Even the musical structure of Rey's Theme is related to the Emperor's Theme and Darth Vader's Theme.

 

It's like poetry - it rhymes.

          - George Lucas

 

 

The title:

 

Star Wars: Episode IX - Power of the Force

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

That's some dumbass fanfiction right there. I don't even care about Star Wars but your theory is bad and you should feel bad. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

no

[Mattris 416]

It's you who should feel bad for saying something so nasty. If you "don't even care about Star Wars", how would you be able to determine the level of quality of my theory in comparison to fan-fiction?

 

If you can respond politely, I'd like to know what you think is wrong with my theories.

 

If you can't respond politely and "don't even care about Star Wars", perhaps you shouldn't contribute to this topic.

[Holko 9,527]

So after you've come up with and shared that as your ideal scenario and finale, we're supposed to take your "these are objective flaws, this film is bad" schtick seriously?

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

Mate, I’m just exhausted at your posts and attitude. The chip on your shoulder is staggering. Good luck.

 

You say you're 'exhausted at my posts and attitude' but I see you're taking the time to laugh at my new posts. Who has a chip on their shoulder now?

[Mattris 416]

TFA and TLJ do have many objective flaws... and their stories and character progressions did not transpire as I (and many fans) would have preferred. But if the Sequel Trilogy (and overall saga) is concluded as I theorize (and IX is an impressive, well-produced film), I will not call this trilogy a complete loss. Heck, I might even watch it every couple of decades. (I'll probably end up just listening to the soundtracks.)

 

The real issue here is Disney's treatment of the fans. Why did Bob Iger blame Solo's failure on "too much" Star Wars? Why does Disney allow prominent Lucasfilm employees to antagonize fans on Twitter? After the massive fan backlash (primarily caused by the TLJ), why hasn't Rian Johnson's Star Wars trilogy been cancelled? (At this point, I'm wondering if this trilogy was even officially green-lit... and if Johnson is just being allowed to troll the disenchanted fans with no end in sight.)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The real issue here is Disney's treatment of the fans. Why did Bob Iger blame Solo's failure on "too much" Star Wars? Why does Disney allow prominent Lucasfilm employees to antagonize fans on Twitter? After the massive fan backlash (primarily caused by the TLJ), why hasn't Rian Johnson's Star Wars trilogy been cancelled? (At this point, I'm wondering if it was even officially green-lit... and if RJ is being allowed to troll the disenchanted fans with no end in sight.)

 

So we're back to that again, are we?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Knox Harrington said:

no

 

Dipshit with a nine-toed woman!

[Mattris 416]

Yes, but I don't want to talk about those real issues here. Any thoughts on my IX theory or title?

[Holko 9,527]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

The title:

 

Star Wars: Episode IX - Power of the Force

 

Will everyone be disproportionately beefy?

[Arpy 4,145]

@Mattris Luke didn't kill himself, he sacrificed himself - this was so clear that I'm starting to suspect that perhaps you didn't even understand or comprehend something simple like Obi-Wan's sacrifice in A New Hope...

 

I guess he just gave up because he was old and couldn't be fucked with running around the Death Star any longer so he just let everything go.

[Mattris 416]

Is it 'canon' that that Luke knew that projecting himself would result in his death? The TLJ novelization includes a voice to Luke: "Let go."

 

The precise time-line for that part of the film is in question, so Luke may not have had to "sacrifice" himself to save the Resistance. Escape-route crystal fox and Rey managed to save them. But without Luke's intervention, I concede that it would have been a close call.

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

 

Will everyone be disproportionately beefy?

 

A Star Wars movie named after an embarrassing toy line! 

 

Its genius!

[Arpy 4,145]

Either way, I think it was Luke stepping up, finally facing his demons, and what better way than to troll Kylo Ren with a display of his superior force powers?

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

To the disenchanted/confused fans, Rey rags-to-riches story is non-existent. The Force just awakened in her. But why was the Force in her in the first place?

  

I would rather Episode IX explain the conclusion to this story without flashbacks.

 

I may be mistaken, but I don't seem to recall anything in the previous film to suggest that using The Force is predicated upon lineage: Its only that Luke's lineage is particularly "strong with the Force." So there's no reason to question why The Force awoke in Rey. There may be cause to question why she's so bloody powerful, I'll grant you.

 

On the other hand, that does mean that Johnson message that "The Force doesn't belong to the Jedi" really isn't that groundbreaking: it was always a given.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

The TLJ novelization includes a voice to Luke: "Let go."

 

This here is why IX will make a boatload of money. Because even disenchanted fans such as yourself, feel so obligated that you'll not only see the films: you'll read the bloody novelization!

[Chen G. 3,949]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

I believe that there are no coincidences in these films. The events were planned, primarily by JJ Abrams

 

You could not be more wrong.

 

I'm sure you're also in the "George Lucas had all nine films figured-out" club of dillusionals.

[Mattris 416]

Do you just think that I'm wrong... or do you have proof?

[Chen G. 3,949]

Isn't Kathleen Kennedy on record that they were figuring out these films one at a time? Not to mention Johnson saying that he had no story stipulations set on him in the making of The Last Jedi?

 

Generally speaking, the only real way to do a trilogy where the story is premeditated is to write and shoot the whole bloody thing in one fell swoop, which Disney opted not to do. Each film in this trilogy has had its own pre-production period, each was written by different screenwriters and had different directors.

 

Its true of the previous trilogies, too. The prequel trilogy or, more percisely, Episodes II and III, are the closest that Star Wars ever got to a premeditated story, but it was still mostly in broad brushstrokes rather than in any detail.

[Mattris 416]

I think there are a relative few knowledgeable, disenchanted Star Wars fans like me. Most fans are largely ignorant of the details of the films and surrounding canon material and are to some degree 'excited' for IX. The rest either like/love the films so far... or mostly hate - or do not like - them. Many of the movie-going general public will end up seeing IX because it's the biggest movie coming out at the end of the year, and they'll want to be part of the pop culture craze.

 

Without a doubt, I will see IX at the cinema. Whether I pay specifically for IX - and not another (non-Disney) film - to get in is still up in the air. I'll make my decision based on how Disney/Lucasfilm presents themselves at Star Wars Celebration and until the film's release. It goes without saying, that they have some ground to make up... in more ways than one.

 

Although I am aware of the highlights/differences in the novelizations of TFA or TLJ, I haven't yet read them (or Bloodline... or the comics). But I will in the coming months. Going into IX, my goal is to be well informed.

[Mattris 416]

Can you find those quotes from Kennedy and Johnson? I find it hard to believe that they had no plan and that Johnson was allowed to do anything he wanted with Episode 8.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I'm sure they wouldn't have, for instance, let him kill-off Rey. Beyond that - carte blanche. Its not too surprising, really. Its how most film trilogies are made.

 

Per Kennedy:

 

Quote

I’ll borrow a line from Raiders of the Lost Ark: We’re making this up as we go.” ¹

 

and Johnson:

 

Quote

The perception of these films is that they’re all planned out on a secret sheet of paper in advance, but that’s just not the case. I wasn’t given an outline of where it goes or even a list of things to hit. It really was just, ‘Okay, what’s next?’” ²

 

If you think Lucas handled the previous films differently, you'd be wrong, too. In Star Wars, he had no concept of Vader being Luke's father, in The Empire Strikes Back he had not concieved of Leia being Luke's sister, and in Return of the Jedi, he clearly didn't think that their mother died in child-birth. He didn't even write The Empire Strikes Back!

 

That isn't to say that I think its the best way to handle this trilogy. But when the announcment came that they would come out two years apart, with different directors and writers at the helm of the individual entries, I knew that they simply weren't going to go that route.

_____________________________

1 https://www.wired.com/2015/11/building-the-star-wars-universe/

2 https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/last-jedi-exclusive-image-finn-rose-canto-bight/

[Mattris 416]

Any thoughts on my theory for IX (and explanation of some of the events of VII and VIII)?

[Chen G. 3,949]

7 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Any thoughts on my theory for IX (and explanation for many of the events of VII and VIII)?

 

Horrible.

 

I really like the character of The Emperor, but come on!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why not spend some energy on more exciting and interesting franchises like Legendary's Monsterverse? Godzilla: King of the Monsters looks like it's going to steal thunder from Avengers and Star Wars anyway. By the time Godzilla vs Kong rolls around next March, everyone will be like "Star what?"

[Demodex 557]

Yeah, I totally doubt that the Emperor has anything to do with the events of the ST. 

Rey isn't "programmed" by anyone. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I really like the character of The Emperor

 

He's a likeable guy.

[Mattris 416]

Palpatine is the only character that appears in all of the PT and OT films (in some way)... and would link the three trilogies together if he turned out to be the 'big baddy'. No one can deny that his presence would get people excited.

 

What can they possibly do instead to make this trilogy worth making? Keep in mind that JJ's media conglomerate and Kathleen Kennedy's legacy are on the line.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 minute ago, Mattris said:

What can they possibly do instead to make this trilogy worth making?

 

Now that's a good question! I don't have the answer, but I'm quite certain a cyborg Palpatine isn't it!

 

Any other idea?

[Holko 9,527]

1 minute ago, Mattris said:

Palpatine is the only character that appears in all of the PT and OT films (in some way)...

R2, 3PO, Obi-wan.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

Any other idea?

 

Palpatine's twin brother?

[Chen G. 3,949]

There are actually quite a few films poised to tear through the box-office. Godzilla, The Avengers and The Lion King.

 

Episode IX will still have a big haul, of course, but I'm far from certain that it'll be the year's biggest draw.

[Holko 9,527]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Palpatine's twin brother?

Sister! Sheevina.

[Chen G. 3,949]

6 minutes ago, Holko said:

R2

 

Does that count as a character, though?

 

Besides, we need to divorce ourselves from this wretched soap-opera mentality, and think of story-throughlines rather than character throughlines.

[Holko 9,527]

15 minutes ago, Mattris said:

and would link the three trilogies together if he turned out to be the 'big baddy'. No one can deny that his presence would get people excited.

Like so many fanboys, for example those who grew up with the flashy prequels, you're getting caught up in the "how cool would that be" factor instead of thinking about what you're saying. A common complaint among TLJ non-fans, one I think you as well brought up, is how Luke developing into a non-perfect person instead of achieving spacenirvana and being the most badassest master ever somehow renders his OT arc irrelevant (it doesn't, but let's imagine to roll with it). Now, wouldn't Palps turning out to be "I'm not dead!" after RotJ render Anakin's sacrifice, consequently Luke's arc, and thus the entirety of the PT and OT completely fucking irrelevant?

[Mattris 416]

On 26/03/2019 at 7:11 AM, Chen G. said:

Now that's a good question! I don't have the answer, but I'm quite certain a cyborg Palpatine isn't it!

 

Any other idea?

 

Not at the moment. Based on the canon material, I'm fairly confident I'm onto something. Palpatine would not be a cyborg.

 

Are you familiar with the notable events of the new novels, comics, video games, and other canon material? Have you read any of them? Are you aware that Palpatine personally set-up a "Contingency" plan on Jakuu... and outposts in the Unknown Regions (where Snoke originated)?

 

On 26/03/2019 at 7:11 AM, Holko said:

R2, 3PO, Obi-wan.

 

I meant characters that could link all three trilogies in a significant way.

 

On 26/03/2019 at 7:25 AM, Holko said:

Like so many fanboys, for example those who grew up with the flashy prequels, you're getting caught up in the "how cool would that be" factor instead of thinking about what you're saying. A common complaint among TLJ non-fans, one I think you as well brought up, is how Luke developing into a non-perfect person instead of achieving spacenirvana and being the most badassest master ever somehow renders his OT arc irrelevant (it doesn't, but let's imagine to roll with it). Now, wouldn't Palps turning out to be "I'm not dead!" after RotJ render Anakin's sacrifice, consequently Luke's arc, and thus the entirety of the PT and OT completely fucking irrelevant?

 

The difference is, in Episode III, Palpatine said, "It's ironic. He [Darth Plagueis] could save others from death but not himself." He was bragging to Anakin and already knew how to cheat death... and will return. I can think of nothing else that would make sense or have any gravitas.

 

Luke put his life on the line, hoping that his father's love would turn him to the Light. Anakin's sacrifice did just that and saved his son... not "fucking irrelevant" in the slightest.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

14 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Palpatine is the only character that appears in all of the PT and OT films (in some way)... and would link the three trilogies together if he turned out to be the 'big baddy'. No one can deny that his presence would get people excited.

 

What can they possibly do instead to make this trilogy worth making? Keep in mind that JJ's media conglomerate and Kathleen Kennedy's legacy are on the line.

The Emperor was not in Star Wars.