Star Wars Disenchantment

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

14 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

But they're more watchable than the prequels. 

 

They're kinda boring though, and not very quotable aside from a few lines here and there.

 

Unfortunately the Disney SW films have a low quote value. Much like the newer Star Trek movies.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

That is incredibly true. The quotable lines are basically in the previews and they aren't even very good. They just catch on as a result of the previews going viral. 

[Demodex 557]

The ST is so good it doesn't even need memorable lines!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

This is preposterous.

[Chen G. 3,949]

26 minutes ago, Mattris said:

TFA and TLJ are not "fine" without a worthy (and plot-hole-filling) conclusion[...]Anything less, and this sequel trilogy will not have been worth it

 

I seem to recall saying as much myself, although with a major distinction: as individual films I think both The Last Jedi and especially The Force Awakens are fine films.

 

As parts of an overarching narrative, however, they're on par with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and Pirates of the Caribbean 4 and 5, in that they're redundant: The saga (god, I hate that term) was perfectly complete without them. There's always a chance IX will manage some sophisticated retcon, but given the time constraints I'd rather see JJ Abrams focus on sticking the landing of this trilogy as a single entity. Trying to cap all nine films is within the realm of impossibility.

 

As individual films, however? They range from the fine to the very entertaining.

[Demodex 557]

I agree that the saga was complete after Episode 6. It's Anakin's story, not his grandkid's story.  That's why I was not thrilled that hey were making another trilogy. 

 

I enjoy all the Disney SW films, but none of them were necessary. 

 

Ironically my least favorite, Rogue One, is the most relevant to the saga. 

[1977 1,743]

Are any movies really necessary? 

[Demodex 557]

No. Not really. No. 

[John 2,032]

I don't care if the sequels are "necessary"; I like these characters and want to see more of them. That's all that really matters in my mind

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Godzilla is.

[Mattris 416]

I disagree, Chen. As individual films, The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens both end with the story completely unresolved and questions galore. A conclusion is absolutely necessary.

[Demodex 557]

Just now, Mattris said:

I disagree. As individual films, The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens both end with the story completely unresolved. They absolutely require a conclusion to have been worth the journey.

 

The same could be said about Episodes 1 and 2. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Are any movies really necessary? 

 

Only Jurassic Park, cause that gave us the greatest score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't even like movies or soundtracks anymore 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

3 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The same could be said about Episodes 1 and 2. 

 

And Empire? I mean this is kind of the deal.

 

1 minute ago, Ghostbusters II said:

I don't even like movies anymore or soundtracks.

 

Bruh.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Are any movies really necessary? 

Yes they are. Really dumb question.

[Demodex 557]

4 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Yes they are. Really dumb question.

 

No, they are not. If all of a sudden there were no more movies being made we'd survive with no problem. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Don't be so sure about that. What about all those kids that are conceived at movie theatres?

[Demodex 557]

7 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

And Empire? I mean this is kind of the deal.

 

But Empire didn't need a fantastic follow up to be worth watching. It itself is excellent. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Demodex said:

 

No, they are not. If all of a sudden there were no more movies being made we'd survive with no problem. 

 

Well that I agree with. We'd find other ways to entertain ourselves. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Just now, Demodex said:

 

But Empire didn't need a fantastic follow up to be worth watching. It itself is excellent. 

 

But it ends on a cliffhanger.

 

[Demodex 557]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

Don't be so sure about that. What about all those kids that are conceived at movie theatres?

 

We are over-populated as it is. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Just now, dougie said:

 

Well that I agree with. We'd find other ways to entertain ourselves. 

 

Playing with yourself doesn't count.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Playing with yourself doesn't count.

 

Slow ahead.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Even if it's slow.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sorry but thats just plain stupid.

Film and video generated nearly 150 billion world wide not considering the ancillary revenue generated by side businesses associated with the film industry

 

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I disagree, Chen. As individual films, The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens both end with the story completely unresolved and questions galore. A conclusion is absolutely necessary.

Hence the trilogy. That's how it works.

[1977 1,743]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Don't be so sure about that. What about all those kids that are conceived at movie theatres?

 

They'll be none the wiser.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Sorry but thats just plain stupid.

Film and video generated nearly 150 billion world wide not considering the ancillary revenue generated by side businesses associated with the film industry

 

In a hypothetical world based on survival, no-one really cares about billions of dollars.

[Chen G. 3,949]

29 minutes ago, John said:

I don't care if the sequels are "necessary"; I like these characters and want to see more of them. That's all that really matters in my mind

 

I can respect that outlook, and like I said, as individual films they're perfectly fine.

 

However, in my view, all stories, if they're good, have a beginning, a middle and an end. The story of Star Wars as a series has a beginning: you can say its in the original Star Wars, in The Phantom Menace, whatever. It kinda has a middle, and it has a lackluster but recognizable end, that being the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

 

[John 2,032]

It all depends on the person; for me, Star Wars isn't a three part-structured story, I ignore the prequels entirely. The meat of the story is the OT, and the ST is an optional continuation/epilogue of that narrative.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It kinda has a middle, and it has a lackluster but recognizable end, that being the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

What better way to end than with an awesome Ewok barbecue party?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why would anyone want to ignore the prequels? I mean they were THX certified, had hilarious quotes, Natalie Portman in skimpy outfits, the emperor dude acting all awesome and shit.

[Mattris 416]

On 28/03/2019 at 2:00 PM, Demodex said:

The same could be said about Episodes 1 and 2. 

 

On 28/03/2019 at 2:16 PM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Hence the trilogy. That's how it works.

 

The difference is, Episodes 1 and 2 were prequels. Those who had watched the OT knew that Anakin would become Darth Vader and align with Palpatine to destroy the Jedi Order. Apart from finding out that Palpatine lied to Anakin (surprise!) to turn him to the Dark Side, Episode 3 is not required viewing.

 

Few would say that, individually, Episodes 1 and 2 are "fine" as individual films. Conversely, few would say that Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are not "fine" films without Return of the Jedi.

 

Regarding the Sequel Trilogy so far, we have not been told who Rey is... or why the Force awakened in her... or why Luke Skywalker acted so against character with Ben. While The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens may be entertaining in isolation, without a fully-explanatory IX, they are not "fine" as parts of the overall narrative of the saga.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

At least they're better than Star Trek.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

At least they're better than Star Trek.

 

Goodbye Jim!

[Chen G. 3,949]

32 minutes ago, John said:

for me, Star Wars isn't a three part-structured story, I ignore the prequels entirely. The meat of the story is the OT, and the ST is an optional continuation/epilogue of that narrative.

 

You can ignore the prequels  and still experience Star Wars as a story with a beginning, a sort-of middle and an end. You can ignore just The Phantom Menace and see it a story which begins in Attack of the Clones; you can ignore the original Star Wars and experience it as a duology. In all those combinations, it still has a sense of an overarching narrative of some kind.

 

To me, that's the only artistic reason to serialize a piece of film. Characters are only interesting so far as they serve a story. If they weren't - and film was just an excuse to spend two hours with a set of characters - we'd flock to watch a mockumentary of Luke's daily routine, and we clearly don't.

 

In no iteration, however, does the sequel trilogy key into this structure. It doesn't even work as an epilogue: its longer than either previous trilogies!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

44 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Regarding the Sequel Trilogy so far, we have not been told who Rey is...

 

The whole point is that she isnt anyone special. She doesnt come from royalty, or Jedi. The Force can flow through anyone.

 

The fact that the Prequels show that there are so very many Jedi, kinda already showcased that.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Just now, Stefancos said:

The fact that the Prequels show that there are so very many Jedi, kinda already showcased that.

 

which, in turn, makes it a none-comment, really.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

What it means is that we won't have to watch the prequels ever again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not really, Chen. The Prequels didn't really focus on that aspect. It had different things it wanted to say 

 

I would rather Rey be no one then that she's Han's secret daughter, or Luke's, or Chewies cousin or whatever it is the "fans" feel it should be 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I'm betting she's half Ewok.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'd like to bring Ray in on this if you don't mind.

[Chen G. 3,949]

9 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I would rather Rey be no one then that she's Han's secret daughter, or Luke's, or Chewies cousin or whatever

 

Oh, I agree.

 

But the idea The Force isn't exclusive to the Jedi (a shorthand for egalitarianism, really) was always a given, so there was no point making a statement out of it in The Last Jedi.

[Mattris 416]

31 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The whole point is that she isnt anyone special. She doesnt come from royalty, or Jedi. The Force can flow through anyone.

 

But that's just it: Rey is someone special. Many fans are expecting Episode IX to explain why the Force awakened in her, specifically. Who's to say she didn't come from royalty or Jedi? We'll see what JJ Abrams and his co-writers come up with.

 

Since the Force is an "energy field created by all living things", yes, it can flow through anyone. But only those who possess a significant number of midiclorians - and listen to them - can use the Force.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Anakin was a nobody, and so could Rey be.

[Chen G. 3,949]

7 minutes ago, Mattris said:

it can flow through anyone. But only those who possess a significant number of midiclorians - and listen to them - can use the Force.

 

It doesn't flow through everyone, but it does flow through people who do not belong to some lineage.

 

If you're going for a raggs-to-riches story, the better to make your character a nobody.

 

The fact that she's quite as powerful as she is, now that's another matter.

[Demodex 557]

The only thing that makes sense is that she's a Skywalker somehow, which will ruin the whole point of TLJ. 

[Mattris 416]

16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It doesn't flow through everyone, but it does flow through people who do not belong to some lineage.

 

If you're going for a raggs-to-riches story, the better to make your character a nobody.

 

I don't think the story of Rey is going to be a rags-to-riches one. If Rey is a "nobody", the Sequel Trilogy will be remembered as a disappointment.

 

18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Anakin was a nobody, and so could Rey be.

 

Anakin wasn't a nobody. One of the newer Star Wars comics shows that Palpatine created him. That's one of the main reasons I think Palpatine created Rey.

 

13 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The only thing that makes sense is that she's a Skywalker somehow, which will ruin the whole point of TLJ. 

 

The point of TLJ was to subvert the viewers' expectations by killing Snoke and Luke in unexpected ways, as well as by suggesting that Rey is a "no one". I'm confident that Kylo was either lying to Rey to tempt her to join him... or he was reading her mind and knows no more than she does about her family and past.

 

Mark my words, Rey's origin has yet to be explained.

[Demodex 557]

It probably will be, but I'll probably be disappointed with it.