The Quick Question Thread

[indy4 160]

I think most of the cues just sound like they could be concert version.

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

Completely 100% false. There are no concert arrangements on the Hook OST.

Are the cues in the movie just edited so much? It's been some times since I watched it, but I always thought many tracks are considerably extended, and often have a coda that doesn't show up in the film?

[Xander Harris 9,676]

Hook OST has alternates. Flight to Neverland, Never-feast, Ultimate War and I know other parts are different.

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

Never-Feast (or was it Banquet?) is one of those I'm talking about. I don't think that tuba solo appears in the film?

[Xander Harris 9,676]

The Banquet is definitely the film version and to my memory, it is all featured in the film. Maybe not the very end part.

The Never-feast (the part where Peter sees the food and they have the food fight) is very different at the beginning. It's one of several major disappointments on that soundtrack, another being the alternate ending of The Flight to Neverland...film version, please. Coincidentally, the concert version of The Banquet (suite of The Banquet AND The Never-feast) includes the alternate album version of the Never-feast. It's a nightmare.

[Jay 46,244]

On 11/06/2010 at 6:00 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

On 11/06/2010 at 4:55 PM, Jason LeBlanc said:

Completely 100% false. There are no concert arrangements on the Hook OST.

Are the cues in the movie just edited so much? It's been some times since I watched it, but I always thought many tracks are considerably extended, and often have a coda that doesn't show up in the film?

 

 

Welll....

 

1. Prologue

This is actually the music recorded for the film's first teaser

 

2 We Don't Wanna Grow Up

This is either an album version or just an edit of "The Play", followed by the only version of "We Don't Wanna Grow Up

 

3 Banning Back Home

This is an album version / alternate arrangement of 1m4 Yuppie Sounds

 

4 Granny Wendy

This is 4m2 Forgotten How To Fly followed by 2m1 Wendy's Entrance, all of which is heard in the film

 

5 Hook-Napped

This is 4m1 Hook Is Back followed by 3m3 Return To Kensington, all of which is heard in the film

 

6 The Arrival Of Tink and The Flight To Neverland

This is 4m4 The Arrival Of Tink followed by 4m5/5m1 I Don't Believe In Fairies. A revised ending for 4m5/5m1 was later recorded that is used in the film, replacing Williams' original ending (heard on the OST).

 

7 Presenting The Hook

This is 5m2 Arrival In Neverland followed by 5m5 Show Us Your Hook. It skips over the "Pixie Devil" scene/music heard in between those 2 cues. Also in the film, the beginning of 5m2 is edited out.

 

8 From Mermaids To Lost Boys

This is 6m5/7m1 The Mermaids, 7m2 To Neverland, and 7m2 Lost Boys Appear. It all appears in the movie as is, except the ending of The Mermaids is shortened.

 

9 The Lost Boys Chase

This is 7m5 The Lost Boys Ballet. In the film a drum insert is added (You can hear a similar insert incorporated into the track on the Williams On Williams CD)

 

10 Smee's Plan

This is 8m3 Smee Steals The Show

 

11 The Banquet

This is 9m3 The Banquet

 

12 The Never-feast

This is 9m4 Cornucopia, followed by 9m5. A revised section was later recorded for 9m4 that is used in the film, replacing Williams' original version (heard on the OST).

 

13 Remembering Childhood

This is 11m1 The Home Run, 12m2 I Remember, and 12m3 The Flying Sequence. In the final film, the begging of 11m1 is replaced by tracked music. And there is a cue in between 11m1 and 12m2 while Peter explores the treehouse that is not on the OST

 

14 You Are The Pan

This is 12m4 You Are The Pan followed by 7m6/8m1 The Face Of Pan

 

15 When You're Alone

This is When You're Alone (Wendy's Lullaby)

 

16 The Ultimate War

This is 13m2 To War!!, 13m3 Crossed Swords, and 13m4/14m1 Form Rank. In the final film, short last minute inserts were added to both 13m2 and 13m3

 

17 Farewell Neverland

This is 15m3 My Lost Boys, 15m4 The Next Morning, and 15m5/16m1 Kensington Gardens. All of which is heard in the film

 

So yea.... no concert arrangements

[Andy 7,731]

What is up with the shark on the back of the Jaws 3-D CD?

I'd never seen this image before. Does anyone remember it being used for promotion of the film? It's bizarre.

I suppose one could ask over at the Intrada forum.

I went ahead and asked.

Good idea! Why didn't I think of that?

The Banquet concert piece from Williams on Williams is exquisite. It's what convinced me to check out the Hook OST. It is a must-own comp.

[Diego 21]

That still looks more real than the one they used in Jaws the Revenge.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

That still looks more real than the one they used in Jaws the Revenge.

Maybe if you have cataracts.

[Diego 21]

Or if you can recognize a bad joke.

[Josh500 1,620]

Is the original "Susan Speaks" cue from The Patriot available anywhere?

Or I may be thinking of the cue that accompanies the scene at the beginning where the two sisters are looking up at the night sky and reminisching about their dead mother...

[Andy 7,731]

Orchestration Question:

There's an instrument, most likely percussion. It makes a sharp, clicking/clacking sound. Horner uses it a lot in Wrath of Khan. You can hear it in the first few seconds of Surprise Attack.

What is the name of this instrument, or how is this sound made?

I'm almost embarrassed to ask this question, because it's probably something obvious.

[MissPadmé 17]

I think this sound is produced by the string instruments

they are

a) either plucking the strings (pizzicato) of the instrument so hard, that they backlash on the wooden part

b) "beat" the strings with the wooden part of their bow - that would be called pizz. col legno - I believe

c) or a combination of both

[Andy 7,731]

It is also used very effectively in the opening seconds of "Another Thorn" from Damien: Omen II.

[Jacob 1]

Any advice on which album of The Magnificent Seven soundtrack I should get?

1994:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Hallelujah-Trail/dp/B000001SGU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-2

1998:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Original-Soundtrack-Enhanced/dp/B00000C40G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-3

2004:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Elmer-Bernstein/dp/B0001MZ81S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-1

[Datameister 2,586]

I think this sound is produced by the string instruments

they are

a) either plucking the strings (pizzicato) of the instrument so hard, that they backlash on the wooden part

b) "beat" the strings with the wooden part of their bow - that would be called pizz. col legno - I believe

c) or a combination of both

I believe that's correct. The first is snap pizzicato or Bartok pizzicato, and the second is col legno. I'm thinking the TWOK example is probably col legno.

[Ollie 1,375]

Any advice on which album of The Magnificent Seven soundtrack I should get?

1994:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Hallelujah-Trail/dp/B000001SGU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-2

1998:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Original-Soundtrack-Enhanced/dp/B00000C40G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-3

2004:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Elmer-Bernstein/dp/B0001MZ81S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-1

The 1998 & 2004 are the same albums, the original score to the film, in mono. I'd get that one. The only difference is the label. Ryko released it in 1998 and then Varese got the rights to re-issue it.

[davros72 1]

Orchestration Question:

There's an instrument, most likely percussion. It makes a sharp, clicking/clacking sound. Horner uses it a lot in Wrath of Khan. You can hear it in the first few seconds of Surprise Attack.

What is the name of this instrument, or how is this sound made?

I'm almost embarrassed to ask this question, because it's probably something obvious.

I was assuming you meant the bits where the wind instruments drop out briefly after their quick intro bit, and the percussionists are hitting their rims with their sticks. But I could be wrong.

[Datameister 2,586]

That's what I thought we were talking about as well - but I've never played or heard a percussion instrument that makes that sound when you hit the rim, or any other part of it. I still think it's the strings playing col legno and/or with snap pizzicato, and perhaps with some reverb or something added.

[Andy 7,731]

Orchestration Question:

There's an instrument, most likely percussion. It makes a sharp, clicking/clacking sound. Horner uses it a lot in Wrath of Khan. You can hear it in the first few seconds of Surprise Attack.

What is the name of this instrument, or how is this sound made?

I'm almost embarrassed to ask this question, because it's probably something obvious.

I was assuming you meant the bits where the wind instruments drop out briefly after their quick intro bit, and the percussionists are hitting their rims with their sticks. But I could be wrong.

Right here at 0:11 - 0:13 is the best example. Or here at 4:07, it is that percussive clacking you here driving the tempo.

[davros72 1]

Orchestration Question:

There's an instrument, most likely percussion. It makes a sharp, clicking/clacking sound. Horner uses it a lot in Wrath of Khan. You can hear it in the first few seconds of Surprise Attack.

What is the name of this instrument, or how is this sound made?

I'm almost embarrassed to ask this question, because it's probably something obvious.

I was assuming you meant the bits where the wind instruments drop out briefly after their quick intro bit, and the percussionists are hitting their rims with their sticks. But I could be wrong.

Right here at 0:11 - 0:13 is the best example. Or here at 4:07, it is that percussive clacking you here driving the tempo.

Yep, percussionists doing rim shots.

[Andy 7,731]

Fascinating... It's so distinctive sounding. You figure that's about a dozen or so guys tapping the sides of their drums with the sticks?

[ChuckM 1]

What on earth does the movie Brazil have to do with Brazil?

[Datameister 2,586]

Yep, percussionists doing rim shots.

Well, those are definitely not rim shots. I'll give you the slight chance that they're rim clicks, but rim shots are played by hitting the head of the drum and rim simultaneously with the same stick. The result is TOTALLY different. I suppose it's possible that they're just playing normally on the rim of some sort of drum, but I highly doubt it. What type of drum makes that sort of sound? Certainly not anything with a standard metal rim - not a snare drum, not a tom-tom. Congas and the like have a VERY different sound on the rim...so do timpani...

It's gotta be one of the two string techniques mentioned above. For instance, check out

. Starting around 2:08, you'll hear some of the same techniques. And in

, you hear one violinist playing col legno alone. Or right at 0:48 in

, you hear the cellos playing a weird, dissonant chord that's marked slap pizz in the score. (I'm referring to the percussive click at the beginning of that passage, not the normal pizzicato jittering in the violins and violas.)

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

What on earth does the movie Brazil have to do with Brazil?

The title song.

[indy4 160]

What on earth does the movie Brazil have to do with Brazil?

The title song.

For some reason Gilliam was attracted to the escapist feel of the jazzy "Brazil."

[davros72 1]

Yep, percussionists doing rim shots.

Well, those are definitely not rim shots. I'll give you the slight chance that they're rim clicks, but rim shots are played by hitting the head of the drum and rim simultaneously with the same stick. The result is TOTALLY different. I suppose it's possible that they're just playing normally on the rim of some sort of drum, but I highly doubt it. What type of drum makes that sort of sound? Certainly not anything with a standard metal rim - not a snare drum, not a tom-tom. Congas and the like have a VERY different sound on the rim...so do timpani...

It's gotta be one of the two string techniques mentioned above. For instance, check out

. Starting around 2:08, you'll hear some of the same techniques. And in

, you hear one violinist playing col legno alone. Or right at 0:48 in

, you hear the cellos playing a weird, dissonant chord that's marked slap pizz in the score. (I'm referring to the percussive click at the beginning of that passage, not the normal pizzicato jittering in the violins and violas.)

OK, granted I used the wrong word, it should have been rim "clicks". However, I've been in concert bands and marching bands/drum corps where percussionists make the very same sound by doing rim clicks on standard concert or marching drums.

It could be a combination of percussion and string hits, I'd buy that.

[indy4 160]

Anybody know what caused Disney to stop making traditional animated musicals after the rebirth in the 1990s? From what I can tell, most of the 90s animated flicks were both critically and financially incredibly successful.

[ChuckM 1]

For some reason Gilliam was attracted to the escapist feel of the jazzy "Brazil."

So, the whole movie was seriously named after the song, despite having no connection to the country?

[indy4 160]

For some reason Gilliam was attracted to the escapist feel of the jazzy "Brazil."

So, the whole movie was seriously named after the song, despite having no connection to the country?

That's right.

[Datameister 2,586]

OK, granted I used the wrong word, it should have been rim "clicks". However, I've been in concert bands and marching bands/drum corps where percussionists make the very same sound by doing rim clicks on standard concert or marching drums.

It could be a combination of percussion and string hits, I'd buy that.

And I've been a percussionist in those concert bands and marching bands, and I'm tellin' you, a rim click doesn't sound like that! It's...a clicking noise, yes, but the similarity stops there.

[MissPadmé 17]

yeah it is definatly a snap pizz with a col legno hit

[davros72 1]

Fine, I'll shut up now, then.

[Datameister 2,586]

Good! Kidding, of course. And there's always the possibility that we're wrong, or that it's some sort of percussion I've never seen, played, or heard of. But based on what I know, I don't think that's the case.

[Jacob 1]

Any advice on which album of The Magnificent Seven soundtrack I should get?1994:http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Hallelujah-Trail/dp/B000001SGU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-21998:http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Original-Soundtrack-Enhanced/dp/B00000C40G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-32004:http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Elmer-Bernstein/dp/B0001MZ81S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276390876&sr=1-1

The 1998 & 2004 are the same albums, the original score to the film, in mono. I'd get that one. The only difference is the label. Ryko released it in 1998 and then Varese got the rights to re-issue it.

Thanks Mark. I was leaning towards the Varese album but I wanted to see if there were any nuances I should be aware of first.

[Muad'Dib 2,059]

Anybody knows where "Hungry Raptors" (12m2) is supposed to go?

[Xander Harris 9,676]

What is the source of the Fox fanfare on TPM UE?

[Datameister 2,586]

Anybody knows where "Hungry Raptors" (12m2) is supposed to go?

The second half of "Hungry Raptor" (note the singular ) can be heard exactly where it's supposed to be, when Muldoon is hunting the raptor. I believe the first half would have scored the scene right before that, which is when Ellie is escaping from the utility shed, IIRC. Definitely my least favorite unreleased JP cue, but still interesting.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Does anyone have any idea what the section from 2:55 to 3:12 in 'Stealing The Enterprise' was supposed to score? It's cut out in the film, as it transitions straight from the part where they transport to the opening Courage notes. It sounds like it should maybe be for the Excelsior or something, or at least danger music, but that wouldn't make sense as she wasn't alerted until after the Enterprise started moving.

[Jay 46,244]

Does this answer your question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzZBZKqEE-4

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Thanks, but nope, not really, because whoever did that edited it out as well, like the film. I don't remember it being mentioned in the FSM liner notes either. Maybe Neil knows?

[Jay 46,244]

This should be in the star trek 3 thread, not the quick question thread

[Ollie 1,375]

Does anyone have any idea what the section from 2:55 to 3:12 in 'Stealing The Enterprise' was supposed to score? It's cut out in the film, as it transitions straight from the part where they transport to the opening Courage notes. It sounds like it should maybe be for the Excelsior or something, or at least danger music, but that wouldn't make sense as she wasn't alerted until after the Enterprise started moving.

Charlie,

I'm not sure. I don't believe it's been disclosed as to whether or not there were any deleted scenes. I had often wondered if Horner wrote a musical bridge for the album but it's also included in the film version. I don't recall reading anything in FSM's liner notes regarding that section.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'm sure if Marc or Neil want to move it, they will.

Does anyone have any idea what the section from 2:55 to 3:12 in 'Stealing The Enterprise' was supposed to score? It's cut out in the film, as it transitions straight from the part where they transport to the opening Courage notes. It sounds like it should maybe be for the Excelsior or something, or at least danger music, but that wouldn't make sense as she wasn't alerted until after the Enterprise started moving.

Charlie,

I'm not sure. I don't believe it's been disclosed as to whether or not there were any deleted scenes. I had often wondered if Horner wrote a musical bridge for the album but it's also included in the film version. I don't recall reading anything in FSM's liner notes regarding that section.

Thanks Mark. Maybe it was a shot in the rough cut they trimmed or something. Or maybe Shatner's toupee got left behind, and did a commando roll into the beam at the last second before it shut off.

[indy4 160]

In the Richard Kaye interview, JW says his first film score was Because They're Young. But all other filmographies indicate that his first is Daddy-O. IS this just another case of JW forgetting?

[Jay 46,244]

Well, my copy of Star Trek 3 arrived today. I opened it up and was reading the liner notes and immediately found the answer to your question.... not sure why people thought it wasn't answered in the notes?

Next comes a brief, dissonant passage (2:55-3:10) not heard in the film, written for a deleted cutaway to David Marcus (Merritt Butrick) and Lt. Saavik (Robin Curtis) in a snowstorm on Genesis, searching for the regenerated Spock

[Ollie 1,375]

Probably because my eyesight is bad.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

In the Richard Kaye interview, JW says his first film score was Because They're Young. But all other filmographies indicate that his first is Daddy-O. IS this just another case of JW forgetting?

Not an answer, but it reminded me... I was at a local concert recently, and the conductor was talking about Williams' career. He mentioned that his first film score was Gidget Goes to Rome. It made for a great punchline, sure, but, y'know...

[indy4 160]

How much does Intrada charge for shipping? I've ordered there several times, but I never remember.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

$3.50 for the first disc, 50 cents for each additional.