Dracula recording sessions are confirmed as lost to time :(

[Jay 42,668]

Jeff Bond says:

This is a case where I really don't think you can argue that the original album suffices for this score. I just rewatched the movie recently (shown in Badham's preferred, but truly frustrating, color-leeched version). It's a pretty uninvolving film although there are a few good moments and Langella as always is wonderful. But Williams' score is even better than I remembered--it's a full, lush, epic work, far more than the handful of highlights the LP suggested. There are whole themes (such as the four-note motif that plays while the horse is stomping on Mina's grave) that are barely suggested on the album but are given full development in the score. Dracula and Jane Eyre would make two great companion pieces and both are tragically "lost" full scores, at least presently.

Sad day

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=96480&forumID=1

[Joe Brausam 230]

Tadlow/Prometheus should record this one day, honestly. Jane Eyre is very well represented by what we have, but Dracula can really shine from one of their reconstructions.

[Jay 42,668]

Unfortunately, it's possible the sheet music is lost to time as well...

[Thor 9,308]

I'm sorry for those of you who crave those things.

However, I'd definitely welcome a cleaned-up, super Hi Fi version of the original album -- maybe those masters are still available somewhere?

[Jay 42,668]

They must be and yea, I'll take it!

[Luke Skywalker 2,216]

Jane eyre cuesheets were lost i think.

[Jay 42,668]

Yes, they are.

[King Mark 3,835]

So that's it, the dream ends today?

This type of thing pisses me off so much and why I will never ever be against bootlegs or leaked recording sessions

[SF1_freeze 136]

The Dracula full score sheets certainly must be in John Williams library and therefore the complete score could be rerecorded. Film stems may be the only parts of the original recording that survived. But they surely have the usual volume problems and artifacts.

[Jay 42,668]

I'd buy a CD that contains the original LP remastered followed by unreleased cues from the film's music stem.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

was it the Universal fire from a few years back?

[Koray Savas 2,256]

Bummer.

[Erik Woods 804]

Unfortunately, it's possible the sheet music is lost to time as well...

If that is the case then hand the film over to Leigh Philips and let him reconstruct it. He did a BRILLIANT job reconstructing Goldsmith SALAMANDER from watching the film ONLY. Let's see if he can do the same with DRACULA.

-Erik-

[Jay 42,668]

Agreed!

[filmmusic 2,656]

Unfortunately, it's possible the sheet music is lost to time as well...

It's not.

[SF1_freeze 136]

Why would the sheet music be lost to time when John Williams seems to have all his full scores bound in leather at home?

[Richard P 4,789]

I'd buy a CD that contains the original LP remastered followed by unreleased cues from the film's music stem.

Do music stems exist for many films?

If so, it's hardly a disaster for proper masters to be missing, especially if the music wasn't fiddled with in the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

even if the sheet music is lost, it can be reconstructed by ear.

[Jay 42,668]

yes, welcome to 5 posts ago

[publicist 4,648]

Shit. Tadlow to the rescue!

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,966]

So that's it, the dream ends today?

This type of thing pisses me off so much and why I will never ever be against bootlegs or leaked recording sessions

Thief! Criminal!!

[Thornhill 20]

As SF1_freeze, correctly points out, JW has all of his leather-bound, hand-written scores in his personal possession. One would think that would be a good starting point. I happen to know that, upon his death - hopefully many years from now - they are to be housed at the Library of Congress.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

yes, welcome to 5 posts ago

I know your pressure points.

[Andy 6,019]

This is not the news I wanted to hear today. Crap. The motif and scene Bond referenced is precisely one of the highlights I had in mind also. There's got to be a way to use the film stems.

[King Mark 3,835]

that horse carriage motif is amazing...now we'll never hear it on c.d.

[Marian Schedenig 10,237]

Why would the sheet music be lost to time when John Williams seems to have all his full scores bound in leather at home?

Didn't he have to reconstruct the Jane Eyre concert suite from the film audio himself? That would suggest that his own library is incomplete as far as his "earlier" stuff is concerned.

[King Mark 3,835]

yes, it says so in the liner notes of Pops Brittania (if my memory is correct)

[KK 3,310]

Wow, this is a real shame. A Tadlow re-recording of this would be fantastic. But if we have indeed lost the complete score sheets as well, then what are the chances that a copy that is still intact will actually come out of Williams' secret vault to be re-recorded?

[scissorhands 16]

He's performed 2 different themes from Dracula in concert in recent years (and if memory serves they were both world premiere performances). He is obviously in possession of the complete score.

[King Mark 3,835]

Williams says he keeps everything. I think Jane Eyre is an exception for some reason

[scissorhands 16]

I happen to know that, upon his death - hopefully many years from now - they are to be housed at the Library of Congress.

That's good to know! Because, as you know, "it belongs in a museum" (or a library for that matter).

[King Mark 3,835]

Can one consult books in the Library of Congress?

[Joe Brausam 230]

Absolutely!

[King Mark 3,835]

What are the criteria for something you wrote to be stored in the Library of Congress? Seems like quite an honor

It's just sinking in that we won't be getting a Dracula expanded c.d....I'm seriously depressed now. We've wanted this for years.

[indy4 159]

This is very sad, but isn't this what we're told for a lot of scores that end up getting expanded treatment? And like Jeff Bond says, they're lost presently (aka it sounds like they don't actually know that they're destroyed, they just can't find them).

As SF1_freeze, correctly points out, JW has all of his leather-bound, hand-written scores in his personal possession. One would think that would be a good starting point. I happen to know that, upon his death - hopefully many years from now - they are to be housed at the Library of Congress.

That's great news! The Library of Congress also digitizes a lot of their materials, so it's possible that at some point, anybody will be able to access these scores for free. I'm curious, can you reveal how you know this?

[karelm 3,204]

That's ok - a new recording can supersede the original. There are greater losses in history that are truly irrecoverable...(Alexandria library)!

[Incanus 5,858]

Well bummer, a big bummer as this score would definitely need an expansion with improved sound quality, being such a masterful romantic and gothic piece of music. But as I have said before and others have said here, this looks like a job for Tadlow if there ever was one. I didn't know Goldsmith's Salamander had to be done by ear for their release but the same team also did this on Nino Rota's quintessential Romeo and Juliet (for Silva Screen) and the results were a resounding success.

[Thornhill 20]

This is very sad, but isn't this what we're told for a lot of scores that end up getting expanded treatment? And like Jeff Bond says, they're lost presently (aka it sounds like they don't actually know that they're destroyed, they just can't find them).

As SF1_freeze, correctly points out, JW has all of his leather-bound, hand-written scores in his personal possession. One would think that would be a good starting point. I happen to know that, upon his death - hopefully many years from now - they are to be housed at the Library of Congress.

That's great news! The Library of Congress also digitizes a lot of their materials, so it's possible that at some point, anybody will be able to access these scores for free. I'm curious, can you reveal how you know this?

Someone I know was a guest in JW's home some years ago and saw them there - bookshelfs lined with the over-sized bound originals (handwritten in pencil). As far the Library of Congess, that's what he was told. Though I, too, would love an expanded DRACULA ... let's hope the original tapes / scores at the studio will one day be uncovered. It is a truly magnificent score, haunting and powerful.

What are the criteria for something you wrote to be stored in the Library of Congress? Seems like quite an honor

It's just sinking in that we won't be getting a Dracula expanded c.d....I'm seriously depressed now. We've wanted this for years.

Not really sure what the criteria for LOC would be. But, presumably Williams breadth of work is recognized as a national treasure at this point. He has more Oscar nominations than everyone but Disney and he has scored numerous events related to this country (Olympics, inaugarations, the Millenium celbration to name but a few). I'd assume his contributions to the arts would be most welcome.

Btw, I understand that Williams' mother lived just beyond the century mark, so hopefully the Maestro will be with us for a very long while.

[Maurizio 5,946]

Rumor has it that the tapes were destroyed during the Universal Studios backlot fire in 2008.

[Donna Lackluster 23]

Leigh Phillips replied to my little daydreaming:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

Sorry if this was mentioned elsewhere. But the OST recording done by the LSO. Was it a re-recording ala Jaws or are they the film tracks?

[Jonesy 55]

Leigh Phillips replied to my little daydreaming:

lpo.jpg

That would be great

[Donna Lackluster 23]

As far as I and everyone else can tell, Steef, the album is a mix of both, film tracks and rerecording.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

Ok thanks. I ask because Robert Townson named the OST as an example of a re-recording in his liner notes for Damien: The Omen Part 2. But over the years I've read that he was wrong.

[Maurizio 5,946]

Actually the album is a cleverly edited presentation of the film recording.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,977]

Ok cool

[Jay 42,668]

Maurizio is correct

[Donna Lackluster 23]

More from Leigh:

It all depends on a company picking up the project. Tadlow and Intrada are the only ones really active in this field at the moment. It's certainly something I'd like to do!

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,966]

Do Joel McNeely or John Debney still do re-recordings for Varese?

[King Mark 3,835]

I don't think so