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GoodMusician

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Posts posted by GoodMusician

  1. On 22/11/2022 at 11:57 PM, InTheCity said:

    Hi all, there may have already been a thread about this somewhere but I was wondering if we could concentrate our knowledge about some of the sounds used in this score.

    Dennis Steals The Embryo

    I was able to find the Owl Sound from Dennis Steals The Embryo (Synclavier) at 16 seconds you can clearly hear it
    I believe the synth boo-bams are the actual live boobams now in the posession of LA percussion rentals

    I believe the main clave (originally pulli sticks in the score)  in the song may be synth

     

    I believe the dx7 was being used at the time (for example the TUBELL preset I believe is a sound on Home Alone Main Title)


    Does anyone else have info?

    such a COOL discovery! I've studied the score but I never quite knew what was going on at that moment. I'm also finding now comparing the original DTS that THIS sound is mixed MUCH HIGHER and earlier in the film at the cut to Nedry arriving at the main gate

    So cool to know what synth it was!

    Also i had noticed that the boom-bams are performed live too but thought i was going crazy. You can hear the stage noise of them being performer (which got claned out unfortunately in the '22 release) which wouldn't have existed if they were synth hah

    As for HOME ALONE, I can definitely confirm that the DX7 was used. i've used it to replicate the gold tooth sound and such.

     

     



    looking at the Synclavier, I'm also realizing this was probably what was used to perform some of the LADD Company Logo music too?

  2. 2 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

    The fact of the T-Rex getting out of the paddock and later entering the visitor center was never in question. 
     

    However, for anyone who is curious:

     

     

     

    I don’t generally watch Klaytons videos. I wrote the original articles explaining how both scenes worked heh

    1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

    I must confess, I NEVER ONCE thought about the paddock scene having any logistical inconsistencies!

    The paddock scene isn’t so much inconsistent as perhaps visually not as clear as it could be. I have the blue prints for the set showing the hole the car was pushed into and the part at road level where the goat had been (between the cars) where the rex exist. 
     

    With everything going on and the repetitious nature of the fence, not to mention the need to try and match it to an existing location they couldn’t do any real earth works to, it matches as best as they could at the time.

     

    The rex entering the rotunda… the only way it works is there’s damage to the freshly made facade on that side by the hurricane… otherwise… movie magic haha

  3. There’s was a notepad sold at auction with notes from Phil Tippet discussing the return of the rex.

     

    In earlier scripts the rex chases the cars to the helicopter and even attack the helicopter (you can see this even made it into the coloring book).

     

    With those scenes removed, there was this question of how to have the rex return one final time. There was discussion of having the rex attack the raptors outside the VC but by this point in filming they’d lost the location sets to the hurricane.

     

    Between Tippet and Spielberg or whoever the decision switched to have the Rex save them inside the VC and Rick Carter—the films production designer—even tried to figure out how the Rex got in but Spielberg was thinking cinematically, not in how it actually got into the building. 
     

    And I think its important to remember the issue with the rex fence is due to the need to marry location with sound stage, and they did their best. This was pre CG environments. We didn’t really get those till JP3. 

  4. On 15/7/2022 at 11:27 AM, bollemanneke said:

    But... It's clearly a performance mistake that shouldn't have been in there. I don't think this should carry over to an album release.

    Which may be why it wasn’t, but the performance is so different It’s something those of us in the JP community and many in the film score community have wanted. So I’m grateful for it.

    On 17/7/2022 at 7:32 AM, MedigoScan said:

     

    Expanded and accurate to the film version!

    JP3 did have the FYC release, but I like those tracks more without all the brass overlays.

    Plus give us the Pteranodon cage track already.

    Yes please! I could give an itemized list… haha

    On 17/7/2022 at 2:10 PM, Brando said:

    I don’t think so. Because according to all of the making of stories, JP has had at least 3(including the final film version)versions of the Raptors getting taken out. The first one, which I believe was the one that stayed in the longest was Grant using the controls of the T Rex skeleton to attack and kill the raptors. Then at some point i read that there was an idea of Hammond walking and shooting the Raptors. And then of course during filming SS felt the audience would be cheated if we didn’t see the Rex again. So that’s what they filmed and was apart of the locked cut that SS put together before leaving for Poland. I’m not sure if it’s been documented anywhere if they filmed the first one I mentioned, so it looks like once SS came up with the Rex saving the day he scrapped the other one before it was filmed. There is footage of the Visitors Center skeletons being broken on set with no creatures in them, so I’m willing to bet that’s what JW saw as he spotted the movie. 

    To my understanding they never filmed anything but the final ending.

     

    it’s worth knowing that it would have been one of the last effect sequences turned in because after they filmed the finale (a film wrap for Ariana and Joey), they cleaned the rotunda and the next day filmed the queue videos for River Adventure and then began tearing the set down. 


    the final shots filmed were Hammond, Grant, and Ellie in the trailer as Hammond invited them.

     

    Williams would have had a locked cut but with no effects to score to. Also realize that Williams scored the film with almost NO alternates. He has unused cues, sure, but no alts.

     

    Any changes after the locked cut would have been a mix of work between George Lucas and Spielberg in Poland. So any changes—such as the shortening of Raptor in the Shed and making a new cue with tracked music or starting the credits a few seconds earlier and trimming some of the music—and the replacement of music 1:1 in the rex finale would have been one of their ideas

  5. 1 hour ago, Brando said:

    You’re welcome! You kept mentioning it and I’m pretty certain I had seen someone discussing this forever ago, and I knew some people uploaded videos of theme park music recorded in the park, so I was like let me go see if this is on YT. Also found this gem, not from the films, but I’ve probably heard it in the park and thought I’d share. It’s a calypso version of the JP theme.

     


    I’d love for all those tracks to be released. 
     

    one version was on the original IOA album, then the reprinted album replaced it with a version not using JW’s themes and there’s a whole other version too. I recorded all that too hah

  6. 4 hours ago, crumbs said:

     

    Is it just me or do these takes sound quite different to the LLL versions? Like the percussion is mixed more prominently or something? 

     

    @Brandothank you so much for finding that percussion only version of The Hunt. I really, really hope Mike can convince JW to include percussion only tracks on a future reissue. It highlights the sheer prowess of those percussionists!! 


    I think I’d recorded all this probably by 2009 at the latest so we def had it earlier than that! LoL
     

    The mixing of the music is hard to comment too much on cause technically I had to record the whole thing twice: once right channel, once for left. And then sync and mix them… there are for sure some alternate takes uses in the River Adventure exit store though… 

     

    I do agree the mix feels different but I also feel the same way when I get use to hearing real channel rips and feeling like somethings off when we get the music officially released heh so it could just be that

     

    I’d love the iso percussion but I’m not sure if he’d ever approve it. It makes me think of “Anderton Runs” where Williams scored with a lot of percussion and synth that could be used or unused in the mix (as evident by three mixes of the same cue). 
     

    I wouldn’t mind a full perc mix version of “The Hunt” so I can retire mine heh

  7. On 27/11/2021 at 10:45 PM, Jay said:

     

    That fire was at Universal Music Group, a company unrelated to Universal Pictures. Album masters were stored there, not original scoring elements for movies. 

    I realize I was too vague: there were multiple backlot fires at USH.

    I'm speaking specifically of this one in which original reports were that original film stock dating from as early as 'I LOVE LUCY' up to films from 2001 went up in the fire, they THEN came back and did a second statement saying "No, it was COPIES that burned" which just seemed like playing PR to me. They had to admit to the film stock burning because of the color of the smoke which indicated certain chemicals which were present.

    And I wasn't speaking of LEGEND's score burning up but rather potentially film stock. Universal has been very hesitant to give much of a list of anything lost in the fire, again, claiming "nothing lost was irreplaceable" 

  8. On 21/11/2021 at 6:18 AM, publicist said:

    It never fails to astound me that they spend a year making a very expensive fantasy picture with all that imagery and then don't even preserve the material. There has to be a 125 and even a 140 minute cut (boring as they may be except for design fans) and all they have left are the badly cut versions that got released.

     

    And some of these cuts and music edits are worthy of italian movies of the 70's and that's no recommendation.

    Don't forget this was a universal film and a large collection of theirs burned down in that backlot fire.

    Also don't forget the production issues with Legend. The 007 stage the forest was built on burned down during lunch. They hadn't finished or  were nearly finished--forget which--with the Jack being forced to Dance by Gump scene and when they were on lunch the whole sound stage burned to the ground. 

    The shots at the end of Lilly and Jack (depending on the cut) running away towards the sun was on a swing set because they had lost the main forest so there were certain things they just couldn't film.

    Further, if i'm not mistaken, when you watch the "directors cut" what you're seeing is a scan of the interpositive of the cut shown to test audiences. There's a title card that shows before it plays explaining it. So it had ALREADY been tinkered with. The original cut is missing or gone or not to be released--my guess is lost in the fire. 

  9.  

    5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

    For anyone on the fence about this new release, check out the new Goldsmith Odyssey Soundtrack Spotlight!

    https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/9568664-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-legend-1985

     

    spotlight_legend.jpg

     

    We play three of the four previously unreleased cues which premiere here. And we also play, for reference, *all* (I'm pretty sure) of the still-unreleased film alternates of certain cues, so you can hear what is still missing (unless there are other unused cues Goldsmith wrote and recorded...it's hard to tell as the written score was misplaced and we don't have a cue list from the sessions themselves). Special guests are Jeff Bond (who wrote the new liner notes) and Paul Andrew MacLean (who wrote the liner notes for the original Silva Screen expanded edition 29 years ago!)

     

    Enjoy, and let me know what you all think!

     

    Yavar


    The discussion of Lily Awakens alternate is interesting to me... but I disagree. There's the directors cut and the uk cut and they have differing ideas.

    -One has Lilly awaken and then they kiss and then its a montage to the end.

    -The other she awakens and has a conversation with Jack and eventually sings for him.

    It seems like there was some reworking going on as far as how the cut would be, if there would be a song, etc. Like a revision of the section because bits of each half are used depending on the cut.

    The Freeze is just a change to the way the track was presented on the album, yea. They cut the repeated section of the synth at the end / opening of the next cues. There's actually more to it than what you played (I edited it slightly out in that track you played...)

    The Unicorns is an extension insert with some repeated measures again. It does sound like it was re-recording of the section to be patched in if needed--edit dependant I'm sure.

    Fun talks about the score! I learned some interesting things i didn't know about the time frame in Goldsmith's life and a little more about the production. Thanks for sharing!
     

  10. 2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

    For anyone on the fence about this new release, check out the new Goldsmith Odyssey Soundtrack Spotlight!

    https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/9568664-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-legend-1985

     

    spotlight_legend.jpg

     

    We play three of the four previously unreleased cues which premiere here. And we also play, for reference, *all* (I'm pretty sure) of the still-unreleased film alternates of certain cues, so you can hear what is still missing (unless there are other unused cues Goldsmith wrote and recorded...it's hard to tell as the written score was misplaced and we don't have a cue list from the sessions themselves). Special guests are Jeff Bond (who wrote the new liner notes) and Paul Andrew MacLean (who wrote the liner notes for the original Silva Screen expanded edition 29 years ago!)

     

    Enjoy, and let me know what you all think!

     

    Yavar

    Interested to give this a listen! 

    Hopefully my order shows up eventually lol....

  11. 31 minutes ago, Amer said:

    Any new material is worth the double dip here. Plus the OST program which I never had on cd.

    yea, I mean the sound quality on the new tracks is more than most have ever had.

    The Dress Waltz "alternate" I think was kept separate for that reason of the quality but its not really an Alternate.

     

    4 hours ago, Positivatee said:

    In other words, this release sounds like a disappointment, and don't delete your older copies. 

    I wouldn't say that. Yes, its mostly a reprint of the two releases with some EQing but the new tracks are definitely worth while and sound pretty darn great! 

    Plus having more LEGEND music is always ideal hehe

  12. 53 minutes ago, publicist said:

    Yeah, but the effect still is the same: it sounds like a longer part was shortened. It's nothing anyone needs another 8-minute cut for (whereas the *real* film alternates of this and 'The Ring' are sadly missing).

     

    The mix downplays the synth, which is very obvious going by the opening of 'The Unicorns', but the liner notes don't specify what elements were used. The mix here is more detailed but also lacks some of the cavernous reverb from the ilva, which makes the score sounding a we bit less impressive.

    Technically speaking the Silva release had the Directors Cut "film" version of the opening (the shorter Jack fanfare with the longer sustain). 

    And you're right, both are missing an insert used in the Director's cut (maybe UK cut too, I'd have to check) as Jack stakes out their hiding spot amongst the lillies up to the Goblins reveal.

    And what I wouldn't give for them to find the material like the alternate 'The Ring' and such... I know it's for a shorter cut of the film but its gorgeous

  13. 1 hour ago, publicist said:

     

    Sounds more like the complete intro, as the Silva version seems to have the middle part cut out. 

    They are two different performances. You can see how they otherwise match.Screen Shot 2021-11-01 at 3.43.40 AM.png

     


    The OST variant has the opening synth 2 octaves higher than in the silva release.

    The silva Release's take also shortens the frantic moment (Jack's theme) for a longer sustain before the flute accent as Lilly spins around angrily at about 00:13 into the cue. 

    Screen Shot 2021-11-01 at 3.47.14 AM.png

  14. On 30/10/2021 at 9:32 PM, blondheim said:

    I can't wait to read a detailed review of this new release

    Unfortunately there's not much else to say.

    Disc 1 is inessence the SILVA release with some EQing done to it. The only difference is "The Unicorns" they pulled from the OST instead so it omits the alternate intro. 

    The new tracks on it sound really good without going back to the originals.

    "Darkness Arisen" is suppose to score when Darkness appears to the Goblins asking if they killed both unicorns.

    "Playmates" is 3 unreleased / unused cues. The first is when Brown Tom fights off the goblins to protect the mare using his frying pan, the 2nd cue in the assembly is the part where Oona chases Lilly through the Hall of Columns, and the last cue is for as they set up the mirrors. None are used in the film or had been released before.

    Disc 2 is the OST with VERY minor EQing done.

    The Alternate Faerie Dance is a true alternate (the version intended for use in the film but the footage was not completed due to a major fire that burned down the entire set and They must have lost what they had as all that exists of it is this video:
     

     
    "The Dress Waltz" alternate is NOT an alternate, but rather the full cue as the presentations previously omitted the ending heard as Darkness exists the mirror.
     

  15. 7 minutes ago, Holko said:

    Butting in with my very limited knowledge, having heard the track once and seen the movie once years ago: maybe it was meant to be sped up and pitched up?

    I'm a bit bothered I hadn't thought of this... even the orchestrations are overall pretty low excepting some small part which, doing even some medium playback adjustment doesn't sound overly fake... 

    Granted, the main characters whod be singing it didn't have high voices which is why I don't think this had occurred to me... plus it was released on the album unadjusted...but I think its a possibility at least!

  16. On 26/10/2021 at 12:05 AM, GoodMusician said:

    I honestly adore this score and have studied it in as about much depth as one can... looking at the track list and track lengths I'm hoping for a few things and based on how it looks / the track list, I'm guessing Disc 1 is the Silva release (with remastering and 2 new tracks) and Disc 2 is the OST (with remastering and 2 new tracks).


    Disc 1 
    -"Main Titles" and "The Goblins" (disc 2 presents 'The Goblins' isolated unlike the Silva release)

    -"My True Loves Eyes" and "The Cottage" (same on both releases really)

    -"The Unicorns" is a combination of two tracks: 'Jack Surprises Lilly' and 'The Unicorns' both of which have alternates. IF Disc 1 is the SILVA and Disc 2 is the OST, then this will present BOTH versions of 'Jack Surprises Lilly' but neither will have 'The Unicorns' alt.

    'Jack Surprises Lilly' (track 07 on the OST) has a different opening than the Silva release (track 03). One's more energetic while the other has a sustained moment.

    'The Unicorns' has a section of about 15 seconds that's a repeated / choirless section that was on a boot sourced from the DAT tapes around the 3:45 mark in the combined track. It would make this compiled track over 8 minutes which it isn't so I think it's not included.

    -"Living River" / "Bumps and Hollows" / "The Freeze" - This is three tracks (per the names). Typically, the ending of "Bumps and Hollows" into "The Freeze" (approximately 45 seconds) heard on the DAT boot is omitted on the released albums. It's mostly synth swells and repeated throbbing synth so It seems to be omitted for that reason.

    -"Darkness Arisen" is out of order (it should be after "The Armour / Oona's Secret") Good to finally have THIS in original quality!!! Its only been on the DAT tape boot. It would be heard when Darkness speaks with the Goblins to confirm they killed the unicorn(s) plural (but they hadn't killed the mare).

    -"The Fairies / The Riddle" There's an alternate or more probably an extension to "The Fairies" in the film which seems to have been lost which is really disappointing tbh... maybe one day we'll get lucky and they'll find the tapes.

    The Silva also has a different ending to "The Riddle" than the OST so we should be getting both of these if they did what I suspect.

    -"Sing The Wee" i kinda wish we knew more about how this was to be heard in the film (or that it existed in one of the cuts). 

    -"Playmates" now THIS track intrigues me! Best I can tell it is THREE omitted cues. It's firstly a cue for when Brown Tom fights off the Goblins with his frying pan (and thinks he got shot). It sounds (based on the sample) like it THEN goes into "Hall of Columns" next BUT there's about 30 seconds left which makes me think it's also the cue for when they set the mirrors later in the film (only about 30 seconds). This TRACK ALONE will up the amount of new music by three cues I suspect!!!!!

    -"Forgive Me" not much to say but it seems to be complete
     

    -"Faerie Dance" there are technically 2 main version of this cue, then an alternate additional solo violin mix of 1, and lastly the mixing of the voices heard in the film. I'm hoping that the alternate at the end of Disc 2 is the Film alternate and not just the alternate violin mix of the album version heard on the DAT boot but they're the same length so I'm thinking maybe not... but we'll see!

    -"The Armour" not much to say but seems complete.

    -"Oona / The Jewels" are the bookends to "Hall of Columns" which is in the new music on Track 08. 

    -"The Dress Waltz"  this confuses me... it was one of the biggest points of contention I had with the boots which is this misunderstanding that there was an alternate. It's not so much an alternate composition as an alternate presentation. You see, after this beautiful waltz queue, Goldsmith goes a bit nuts with the throbbing / crashing synth sound as Darkness steps out of the mirror. This "extension" is omitted / faded out on the albums and is often marked as an alternate when included. Based on the track length noted on Disc 2, I'm thinking it's going to JUST be the full track (with that new section) although I will be HAPPILY wrong if its a true alternate!

    -"Darkness Falls" is a combination of a few tracks again. 'Darkness appears' which is right after "The Dress Waltz" which is just gorgeous (the film uses a choirless version which is just as haunting). Next you'd then have 'Setting the Mirrors' which is a new cue I think is on that new track, then the rest goes through to the destruction of Darkness.

    *If anyone is interested, the music used in this section of the UK cut / Directors cut is a mix of music from Psycho II (also by Jerry Goldsmith) and music from Slugs The Movie by Tim Souster).


    -'The Ring' is another cue I wish we would get lucky and find the masters for because the film has a very beautiful version that reminds me almost of a finale to one of the Williams's disaster films but then goes into this beautiful harp rendition of "True Loves Eyes" that feels very 'Poltergeist' and is just gorgeous. The alternate version we have is a bit bigger and is a rendition of "Bumps and Hollows" instead. 

    -"Reunited" as with the alternate version of the previous track, there seems to be an unreleased alternate for a vocal-less continuation of "True Love's Eyes." It then picks up with the version we hear on the albums just after the vocals. Another cue I fear is lost to time... I'm glad we have the alternate as it includes the singing and such but so sad that the score wasn't preserved better :-/ 

    All in all, I think this'll be a great upgrade on what we have! It includes 4 new tracks (by my count 5 new cues and one expanded cue possibly new cue!?) 

     

    On 27/10/2021 at 9:39 AM, Brundlefly said:

    Is the score complete now - meaning there is at least one version of every cue?



    This will give you some information, but I can elaborate more if you'd like and it seems like my overview was spot on for what this release was. 

    EDIT: Except they unfortunately used the OST 'The Unicorns' on both disc 1 and disc 2, effectively omitting the Silva alternate section from the release.

  17. Has there been much discussion on the state of the elements from the Film Recordings (not the OST)?

    I ask because it seems the common practice of that studio at the time was to do downmixes of instrument groups for later mixing into a mono film mix (think JAWS, TOWERING INFERNO, FAMILY PLOT). 

    Listening to the two samples (one being 'Main Title' on JWFan and the other being 'Anna on the Stairs from that podcast) it seems clear to me at least in some cases downmixes had to be used. The strings, for instance, in both of those are mixed LEFT and slightly Left of CENTER respectively. 

    It's not a deal breaker for me but I am curious of the disposition of what was found for the FILM mixes.

  18. On 12/24/2020 at 7:46 AM, crumbs said:

    An interesting difference is the sessions used the film opening to The Ferry Scene which seems to be tracked from later in the cue. Both versions of The Ferry Scene on the Intrada have the same opening.

     

     

    Just to confirm @Jay, the film version was tracked here?

     

    Further evidence the session leak came from edited ProTools sessions, FWIW.

    I once did a film edit of this scene and If I recall you're exactly right, the music is tracked from later.

    The hard part was the stretched notes and extensions near the end when they're in the water. Those were tough.

  19. On 2/25/2020 at 9:36 PM, gkgyver said:

     

    What? The ending to Kong was ruined with Denham's comically over the top line "beauty killed the beast". The movie is an overlong mess. 

    There are plenty of iconic moments in the Hobbit films. 

    There's a video where Jackson explains he'd intended it to be an old woman who says is... intended to be played by  Faye Wray. But she passed away just before filming began. So it sounds like the decision to use Denham is... almost a "well, we had to use someone."
     

     

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