DarthDementous

Happy annual day of disappointment when they don't announce the complete Star Wars scores!
 
May the 4th be with us all!

I both love and hate how cheap this joke is.

Brando...
 
Brando...
 
Let it go.
 

"it's so great to finally hear the complete Lando Arrives' -  JWfan Forum member, black & white, 2069
 

Made from our own ear wax.

Remaining JWFans will be huddled around a camp fire listening to the complete Star Wars and Indy scores on wax cylinders in a post-apocalyptic wasteland 

don't remotely fathom why this has to be a one or the other situation. you write the best score for the kind of project you're making

John Williams' soundtrack for Star Wars works fantastically and is mythic and all the other things people are saying about it because that's the kind of movie that warrants a score like that

you may as well be making the case that every entry in the Star Wars franchise has to have the same goals as the Lucas films when you say that every soundtrack should adhere to the way the movies sound. if you're going to draw upon the grand romantic scope of the movies, then by all means write a score that sounds like the movies. the video games do this all the time whilst also drawing upon those original films for many aspects of their presentation and tone

if you are fundamentally making something that is not trying to achieve the same goals as the Star Wars films like an Andor, then it's not necessarily appropriate to go with the 'one size fits all' approach. if Williams did write Andor I doubt he would go into the default Star Wars mode and he'd probably tap into more of his spy thriller sound. there's an inherently unreasonable thing in expecting completely different composers to have the same sensibilities as Williams though, and I think that's mostly what people want (understandably so) is for more Star Wars music written by Williams, as opposed to more Star Wars music

the best compromise I've seen in this regard is when you end up with someone who adopts similar sensibilities to Williams like Mark Griskey with the KOTOR 2 soundtrack, but is writing to such a different flavour of story that it ends up with its own unique sound whilst still being identifiably Star Wars. this requires a very rare instance where you have a composer that matches sensibilities though, and it's unreasonable to expect that to always be the case. I'd rather have a soundtrack that fits the thing that's being written for it rather than forcing someone to adopt sensibilities that aren't naturally their own because that's when it starts sounding like a pale imitation

I was listening to some Bruce Broughton the other day and had this random thought that he makes modern music sound old fashioned whereas JW makes old fashioned music sound contemporary. Not really something I could explain in a meaningful way (and possibly entirely wrong) but JW's music never sounds as old fashioned as some of the classics it leans on and, in some ways, is more timeless. I guess it's a mix of the jazzy/syncopated rhythms and harmonies which pull away from its late romantic antecedents. I couldn't as easily explain why I feel the opposite is true of Broughton's music.
 
And yes, I'm using "modern" and "contemporary" fairly inaccurately... as though either composer sounds remotely like anything that's *actually* modern or contemporary... but I guess it's more as just a broad brush description of something that doesn't sound like, you know, Brahms or Rachmaninov or Holst or whomever.

All I care about is that the music fits the media and isn't so bad that it is noticeable. For example, the Andor soundtrack works great for the show, but it's not something I listen to outside of the show. Some of the music for Visions has been fantastic. I like John Powell's Solo score quite a bit. I like listening to different composers being their ideas to Star Wars.

Here's how every modern Star Wars score will sound from now on!
 
 

Nope, they had a scene together in the first arc when he goes to Ferrix.  She tells him that Preox-Morlana is looking for Cassian, he says they're looking for someone matching his description, and that Andor is officially from Fest.  Then he goes off to the warehouse where he'll meet Cassian and she goes back to her store

Yeah, that never sat right with me either. At first he comes across as a calm and collected Jedi Knight—but then he makes a threat with some crazy in his eyes.


 

I really like the more tactile Curoscant in this season. I mean, it's recognisably Curoscant - and I always enjoyed Curoscant - but here it somehow blends this with something that feels, frankly, almost out of THX-1138.

My favorite part about the show, honestly. It manages to make the Rebels and the whole world more complex and believable while never wavering from the fact that the Empire is BAD. The Imperials are very human. And BAD. The Rebels have flaws and shades and nuance and the Empire is BAD.
 
There is also a certain return to form (Star Wars form) that the ISB and it's agents are the shadowy bureaucracy that we had in Star Wars. They are not bad because they are malevolently evil manifestations of The Dark Side of The Force that we got once The Emperor was introduced in The Empire Strikes Back. While we "know" from previous films that this is the case and the whole thing is being orchestrated by a Dark Lord of the Sith, you can have an oppressive government without a leader so evil that Hell Itself Spat Him Back Out. Hitler and Stalin were serious pieces of work but neither one actually woke up in morning and said "I will be EEEEEEVIL today! Bwaaaahahahahahaha!"
 
Oh, I'm sorry. I sound rather enchanted by Star Wars. Of course, I'm almost always enchanted by Star Wars.

The scores of Science Fiction films that came in the wake of Star Wars have a special meaning to me.  For those not there to remember, it was an electrified zeitgeist.  In the early 70s, UFO mania was already igniting the imagination of those who wished to believe.  Efforts like Space: 1999, Logan’s Run, and the 1976 resurgence of Star Trek primed audience hunger for Space Fantasy. Star Wars lit the match to this powder keg. 
 
Suddenly Outer Space was on toy shelves, in school supplies, on T shirts, bumper stickers, on tv commercials, and airbrushed on the sides of 70s vans, not to mention burning up the disco pop charts. 
 

 
In no time, just about every big composer was being tapped to score either a direct ripoff of Star Wars, or Sci-Fi firmly embracing this new space mania.  

I’d like this thread to be an area to share stories and opinions on both the films and scores of this magical era from 1977-1979.  
 
Why stop at 1979?  Aren’t we forgetting the Last Starfighter, Krull, Explorers, Slipstream, Dune, Star Trek feature films, and countless others?  My cutoff for this discussion is The Empire Strikes Back.  That was the moment when Star Wars became a Saga, and its dominance was unquestionably cemented.  It also took a point (the original Star Wars) and made it a vector.  Other science fiction either had to “fall in line” or completely deviate.  Ripping off the Empire Strikes Back made less sense than ripping off Star Wars.  The era of the groovy 1970s in the immediate post SW moment had a fanciful nature in which direct copies and exploitation were more accepted.  There was less adherence to style guides or key art, even within Lucasfilm.  The galaxy felt wide open, and so did our imaginations.  When there was only one Star Wars film, called “Star Wars”, it seemed like a kid’s imagination could be easily captured by imitation and some kind of connection to the phenomenon.  Post 1980, it just felt different.  Even the disco versions seemed to die out.
 

 
I’m including a few exceptions worth noting.  Close Encounters was not inspired by Star Wars.  And yet its release and marketing took full advantage of Star Wars mania.  It was part of that time.  Likewise for the series of Star Blazers (Space Battleship Yamato) films and TV series.  Although the original Yamato debuted in Japan in 1974, it wasn’t exported internationally as Star Blazers until the Star Wars mania had hit, making its TV premiere in 1979.  And finally, Flash Gordon.  Although it premiered in November of 1980, its production and scoring had begun prior to the release of Empire, and Starlog Magazine (the 1970s internet) had long been previewing glimpses of concept art and tantalizing production information.  Flash is in before the lock.
 
I am hoping to capture a little bit of the playground discussion of my youth, and maybe have someone introduce me to an undiscovered gem I’ve overlooked.  In the meantime, I’ll be sharing my thoughts on the following films and scores:
 
Star Wars
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Starship Invasions
Battlestar Galactica
Star Blazers (Space Battleship Yamato)
Battle Beyond the Stars
Message From Space
Star Crash
The Humanoid
Buck Rogers in the 25th Century
Moonraker
Alien
The Black Hole
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Flash Gordon
 
Let's begin now.
 
Star Wars (1977)

 
I can remember life before Star Wars.  In my world it was Batman, Spider-Man, and Superheroes.  Back when Marvel and DC toys could be sold together.  I was four going on five.  My family wanted to see Star Wars.  I wanted to see Disney’s The Rescuers.  They won, and so did I.  My childhood erupted like Alderaan, and Star Wars grafted itself to my DNA, manifesting in a mountain of toys, trading cards, posters, and music.  
 

 
Do you know what a vinyl Ben Kenobi cape first smells like when you take the figure out of the package brand new?  I do, and I’ll never forget it.
 
May the Force Be With You meant something back then.  I loved seeing early attempts at cosplay, and of course Star Wars artwork on the side of a Van would get my dad to honk the horn of the family station wagon.  
 
 
 
Just try to imagine a world where there was no disenchantment.  No disappointment or criticisms.  Just crazy characters with funny names who became our new extended family.  See-Threepio.  Artoo Detoo.  Chewbacca.  Obi-Wan Kenobi.  Princess Leia (Pronounced “LEE-ah” during these years thanks to Peter Cushing and Roscoe Lee Browne who narrated The Story of Star Wars album). Jawas.  Darth Vader.  Han (also pronounced two ways) Solo. And Luke Skywalker, which I thought was the coolest name ever, and often visualized him literally walking in the clouds.  Darth Vader killed Luke's father.  End of story.
 

 
As for the music, I’ll try to be brief because what more is there to say?  The minimalist cover design. My 8-Track Tape.  My mother coming home from the film humming the main title theme to rile us kids up.  The Meco Disco version was all over the radio.  I remember a play date where my buddy threw that on and we danced and pretended to blast each other shielding ourselves behind furniture on the shag carpet of his living room.  Meco was just the tip of the iceberg with countless covers, children's albums with high school band orchestras, and Moog synthesizer concept albums.  Isao Tomita and everyone else was getting into the act.
 

 
A good year of my childhood was listening to that 8 track on a continuous loop.  

 
John Williams needed war drums for his Space War Movie, and he chose the timpani over the snare.  A young child is very receptive to this kind of percussion.  It’s everywhere in Star Wars.  When I think of this score, I think of the blackness of the cover and those pounding timpani in the Death Star battle.   Special mention must be made of Cantina Band.  It was everyone’s favorite scene.  On 8 Track, it began at the end of one track, faded out, and then the track changed (K-ChNK!) and it faded back in to finish the second half.  Frustrating.  But the format allowed you to skip to one of four tracks, and they needed to equalize the time length so you wouldn’t skip to a track of silence.  Continuous play.  Over and over.  That is, until Battlestar Galactica showed up.
 
 
 

Yeah, we didn't read it like that as well. It just looks like he knows from experience what these drugs do.

Yeah, that was interesting.
 
I assumed they gave the piece to him with the microphone hidden, and so they'd be the first and only lead to suspect.

Andor 2x05  Have Friends Everywhere
 
This was great, I feel like every storyline and character advanced in a meaningful way, well, except Mon Mothma who sat the episode out entirely!  Now I am wondering if that weird montage from the previous episode was actually combining scenes originally intended for that episode and this one smooshed together.  I'm really curious how her story for the year will close out next episode.
 
I really enjoyed Andor being undercover on Ghorman!  This to me was finally something different and new for him to do is what I was hoping (I was hoping for a lot of the second season to do different things than the first did, and the first arc didn't do enough for me).  I like this smooth character he was playing and it was fun seeing him interact with the leader of the Ghorman Front. He wisely tells them how good the Imperials are at providing fake info, but they are convinced Syril is on their side. Oh boy.... Lucky for Andor, Syril has left Ghorman by the time he gets there so isn't in danger of being seen. Him and Dedra have another good scene with Partagaz.  Of course the transports the Ghorman Front are plotting to rob don't actually have anything valuable; Hope we get to see a cool heist sequence next episode anyway!
 
I didn't see it coming that Luthen is the supplier of Bix's drugs.  I hope he knows what he's doing.  His other storyline this episode was more interesting, with Kleya overhearing that Sculdun got scammed by a fake and now now be inspecting all of his recent acquisitions, uncovering a microphone Luthen & Kleya have planted there.  I was a bit confused on why they were so sure it would lead right to them (they are smart enough to hide a microphone but not to make it untraceable?), but I'll go with it.  Really curious to see how this plays out next episode!
 
The part of the episode that was the least effective for me was Saw & Wil.  Maybe because they are tertiary characters with no main or even secondary characters involved in it.  I have no idea if the guy Wil taught to use the macguffin was actually a spy or Saw is just going crazy, but at least this huffing of fuel fumes is some kind of explanation for why Saw is much weirder this season than last.  I've never seen whatever animated show he's from, and I have seen Rogue One but don't remember many details from it, so perhaps when I re-watch it after this season things will make more sense to me.
 
PS Did anyone notice the opening logo music was mostly replaced by the various things Kleya listens to on her radio thingy?  Or are you all "Skip Credits" people?

that's an interesting point, I hadn't thought about how Perrin may be changing. I assumed that speech was basically making more explicit that this was a dude that believed in so much but was broken by the hopeless state of the galaxy and now the only way he can live is to focus on the hedonism of it all and disengage from the world politically. he's right about the importance of joy though, as ultimately that's what the Rebellion is fighting for

I always thought that Perrin would start to change if he realized who Mon Mothma really was, not the centrist ineffectual senator, but the secretly radical funder of Rebellion groups; I feel like he'd have so much more respect for Mon and probably start questioning his own disillusionment and lack of action. that's one of the great tragic ironies of the show though, because Mon's home environment is so unsafe that she can never show that true side of herself
 

I find it very interesting and necessary as Andor is basically begging you to look at things in this way. it's another layer in which to look at things on that engages more with the historical context of when these works were made as well as their influences. I pity the people who aren't able to set aside their weird political baggage because it's a very fruitful realm of analysis that asks important questions like 'well, things were always this way in the past...but why was this case and is it valid to continue doing it this way?' which is how franchises evolve rather than stagnate and die

You reminded me that their scene in the car mirrors their scene in Season 1 (camera panning away from Mon through the window and into the city) and their dynamic is way different, less digging at each other and more collaborative. We joked here that he saw her dancing and that reignited something in him.
 
There was another scene that looked like it mirrored something from Season 1, but it escapes me now. Similar plot beats (Andor goes to an inexperienced rebel group and the arc ends with an heist) notwithstanding.

I know Gilroy has mentioned the influence of The Battle of Algiers on the show, particularly in the last three episodes of Season 1, but I'm not sure if anyone has caught the musical influence of Morricone as well. Take a listen:
 
 

I was at the grocery store and I saw a whole display of SW Wheat Thins, complete with circa 2005 promotional images of Chewbacca and such. Were it not for the Disney logo, I would have suspected they were old stock, or I'd traveled through time. I thought you guys would appreciate this.

I've also found him much more pleasant; I think that's mainly because the entirety of his appearance, he was actively working with Mon. <Sigh> Yet another reason to be disappointed by the series' continuation being abbreviated into just one season...seeing the path that took him there would've been interesting. Based off that scene, he's certainly gotten more invested in politicking than he was in S1.

He recently did play an older Organa in Kenobi... and looked about 30 years older.