Score
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Posts posted by Score
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Good, but not great.
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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:
Would that not fall into the category of thematic reminiscence as opposed to leitmotiv?
Well, the OP is asking about thematic/leitmotiv handling, so I don't think he is looking just for examples of the academic definition of leitmotiv. In Alien, there are definitely some recurring themes which can be associated either with the Alien itself, or with the desolation of the alien planet, or with the loneliness and mistery of space travel (that woodwind figuration appearing mostly in the initial cues that was also reprised by Horner in his score for Aliens), so I think the score fits the request.
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Well, excluding a large part of JW's output and LOTR, and some Powell scores that were already mentioned, Korngold (e.g., Adventures of Robin Hood) and Goldsmith (e.g., The Mummy and, to a certain extent, Alien) come to my mind.
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In no particular order, I would go with the following.
Places 1-10:
A.I. Artificial Intelligence
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
The Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi
Schindler's List
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
E. T.
Places 11-20:
Dracula
Jaws
Hook
Angela's Ashes
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Jurassic Park
The Lost World
Saving Private Ryan
Seven Years in Tibet
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13 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:
Herrmann was much more of a visionary and innovator than Shore is.
Honestly, in terms of innovation, nobody beats Hermann and North. Not even Williams and Goldsmith.
From the Williams-Goldsmith generation, I'd say that Morricone is comparable or even superior to Herrmann in terms of innovative ideas. They both were keen on using unusual orchestrations to give each movie its own "color", and I think it can be said that Morricone experimented with a broader variety of compositional techniques. In Morricone's output, you find anything from the lush Romantic melody (e.g. Deborah's theme and other analogue pieces) to minimalism, to 12-tone, to avant-garde. Herrmann was more repetitive with respect to this aspect (to be fair, he also died much younger).
- Muad'Dib and GerateWohl
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"Man with a harmonica" from "Once Upon a Time in the West", by Morricone:
It features a distorted electric guitar starting around 1:05 .
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12 hours ago, bruce marshall said:
I've always regretted that Herrmann didn't include the exquisite " first snows of winter" music with " The Road and Finale" as part of his 451 suite.
Fortunately the Tribute recording has it.
That cue was not intended to be in the movie, in the initial stage. Herrmann's manuscript score does not include it: after "The Road", there is "Finale", and there is a clear indication on how to connect the two pieces into a single one (probably this was added later as an instruction to assemble the suite). "First Snows of Winter" is tracked from the second part of the cue "The Monorail", also included in the Tribute recording, so it was probably a request by Truffaut which took place after Herrmann had finished the composition of the score, and not planned to be there initially. Moreover, the cue "The Monorail" was originally orchestrated in a slightly different way: the glockenspiel line (which gives the piece its "snowy" feeling when attached to the final scene) was supposed to be played by violins and violas - I'm not aware of any recording of this version. So, the existence of that piece must have been a happy consequence of post-production changes. From a strictly musical point of view, I like "The Road" to continue into "Finale", although I am also happy to have the piece in the Tribute recording.
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6 hours ago, Amer said:Both of these are great but The Kentuckian has become one of top Five Herrmann’s. I just love the Charles Ives inspired Americana music here.
My Top 51.Vertigo
2.Psycho
3.The Ghost and Mrs Muir
4. Fahrenheit 451
5. The KentuckianI have a similar top 5, but with Mysterious Island in the place of The Kentuckian (although I don't know the latter yet; just received the Stromberg CD and planning to listen to it in the weekend). Fahrenheit 451 is truly gorgeous, comparable to Psycho under many aspects. Some cues got a bit butchered in the final cut of the movie, but fortunately we have an almost perfect re-recording.
- Bespin, Yavar Moradi and Amer
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I'm not at all surprised that JW is protective about his themes and wants them presented in his own way. We should never, ever forget THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrm59Z_0w4
- Manakin Skywalker, crumbs, MikeH and 3 others
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My personal priority list would be:
Universal > Sequels > Prequels > Oliver Stone > Indiana Jones > Original SW trilogy
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In principle, it is possible. If the same question had been asked in a poll in 1971, about the 1970s, I doubt many people would have answered affirmatively, and even less would have anticipated who, among the working composers of the time, would have been able to deliver a score worthy of that title (*). Surprises are always around the corner!
(*) I'm thinking of "The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing" (1973), of course.
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This poll made me reflect on the fact that I went to see several of these movies only because I knew in advance that they had been scored by JW, and probably I would have overlooked them otherwise. In some cases (Empire of the Sun, Angela's Ashes) the movies turned out to be really good, in some others (The Terminal) not at all!
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10 hours ago, crumbs said:
Walt Disney Pictures, Disney+™ and Lucasfilm Ltd.™ are excited to announce that visionary director JJ Abrams is returning to the galaxy far, far away. Abrams has been commissioned to remaster and reconstruct the original Star Wars™ trilogy (Star Wars™: Star Wars™, Star Wars™: The Empire Strikes Back™, Star Wars™: Return of the Jedi™) in brand-new editions exclusive to Disney+™, finally integrating the Original Trilogy™ with the beloved Star Wars™ Sequel Trilogy™.
Reuniting with screenwriter Chris Terrio (Zack Snyder's Justice League), the pair wrote new dialogue to bridge the old with the new. "I said to Chris, 'man, this trilogy does a terrible job establishing context for Rise of Skywalker,'" recalls Abrams. "No mention of Palpatine's children, no hints about grandchildren... so many missed opportunities. Why shouldn't Rey's Song appear when the Emperor confronts Luke? We need to fix this!"
Abrams credits inspiration for the project to veteran Star Wars composer John Williams. "I remember John saying to me, 'JJ Baby, after what you've put me through, I wouldn't be surprised if you asked me to write new music for Empire next.' That was the light-bulb moment."
The acclaimed sound team from The Rise of Skywalker™ also return to remaster the iconic soundtracks, assembling immersive new Dolby Atmos mixes. "It never made sense that all the musical themes didn't exist in all of the films," muses Abrams. "Finally we can fix those mistakes." Disney+ subscribers can also enjoy isolated scores, further highlighting Abrams' new vision. "This will introduce a whole new generation to John's music. I'm even talking with Disney Records about releasing the new isolated scores on CD. Everyone's excited!"
While Williams could not be contacted for comment, he would undoubtedly approve. Abrams shares Williams' theoretical excitement. "At last, fans will appreciate my vision for the Skywalker Saga."
EXCLUSIVE: First clip from Abrams' newly remastered edition of Star Wars™: Return of the Jedi™:The clip is just perfect!
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3 hours ago, Remco said:
If ‘Buckbeak’s Flight’ for you is just ‘I and VI moving back and forth with a lot of percussion’ I suggest you take a closer listen.
To be fair, every chord is the I or the VI degree of some key, and since he did not specify...
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3 hours ago, Jar Jar said:
So I was wondering, as this cue is not from the original manuscript,
This is just not true. The cue is definitely in the original manuscript.
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1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:
The whole rescinding the award for The Godfather for reusing a theme (if I remember rightly) is just weird. I mean, if not reusing your own material was grounds for not awarding an Oscar, half of them would have been taken away by now...
Indeed, in The Godfather Rota reused a theme from a 1958 movie called "Fortunella". It's worth to listen to this early version (the theme used in The Godfather starts at 0:56):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kej-oavI94w
Notice that the trumpets at the beginning quote a theme that Rota had used in 1954 for "La Strada".
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The most joyful and optimistic? Superman's Theme!
- Andy, Will, bruce marshall and 2 others
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On 1/28/2021 at 8:31 AM, GerateWohl said:
Apart from that at first guess I find pretty perfect films are
Gattaca
A History of Violence
Catch Me if You Can
The Departed
Princess Mononoke
I entered to say "Gattaca" and "The Departed"! To which I add:
The Fellowship of the Ring
A. I. Artificial Intelligence
Pulp Fiction
The Book Thief
Alien
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7 hours ago, publicist said:
The Mummy is Goldsmith through-and-through and completely at odds with how JW or numerous other composers would attack such movie. Or, to put it differently, you cite extremely broad examples that would count for at least two dozen other Hollywood composers as well, which kind of loses sight of the big picture. Which is that Williams' tonal language for big adventure movies is more indebted to classical, or even operetta, music, from Strauss to Stravinsky (or Mahler or Orff), which JG's music, at that point at least, had long abandoned for a more *cheesy* streamlined blockbuster sound that is its own beast - David Arnold meets Miklos Rózsa, if you like.
As for Poltergeist, i agree with whoever referred to it more as Spielberg than Williams music, but i find the luxurious, almost opulent orchestral style for what is basically a suburban horror movie very close to how Williams approaches movies. Especially the light-and-wonder music, as well as the saccharine Carol-Anne theme.
I have listened again to several cues from Poltergeist and I definitely see what you mean about that. Indeed, there are relevant points of contact with JW, although the Carol-Anne theme (saccharine, indeed) has some features that correspond to what JW seems to consciously avoid as being too unimaginative. I am referring to certain choices of chords in the very simple harmonic sequence - JW always tries to put some spices like at least some major-seventh chords, even in simple childlike pieces like "Somewhere in my memory". But in general, I agree on Poltergeist.
However, I don't think my observations about "The Mummy" are so generic as you imply, I mean, not necessarily more generic than yours about Poltergeist. It depends very much on what parameters you prioritize to represent a certain style, or a certain composer. For me, harmony (in the sense of the choices of chords, or when the concept of chords is inappropriate, simultaneous combinations of sounds) is one of the most important aspects of music, and one of the first things that I notice and care about. So, if Goldsmith uses a distinctive sequence of chords for the Imothep theme (one of the most used themes of the score) that is almost literally the same as what JW used earlier for other very famous villain pieces, I definitely hear a similarity, whether it was intended or not. If JW had written the score for "The Mummy", it would not be unrealistic to imagine that he would have conceived a similar theme for the bad guy, and he would have generously used brass and choir throughout the score. Morricone would have written a totally different score, not to mention Zimmer and others.
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1 hour ago, publicist said:
??
Well, there are several similarities with some techniques that JW used frequently in action movies of the 70s and 80s. A striking one, for me, is the theme for Imhotep, at 0:31 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWly0yvaY5M
The beginning of the theme is based harmonically on the alternation of two chords. The first is C# minor. The second one is a bit ambiguous, it can be interpreted either as A major or A minor, because the major third (the note C sharp) is held in several instruments from the C# minor chord, but the horns playing the melody go to the notes C natural and A. Given the prominence of the horns, the harmonic function of the second chord definitely sounds to me as A minor, so we have the alternation C# minor - A minor (two minor chords separated by a major third), which is a harmonic gesture that Williams uses everywhere (e.g., in the Imperial March, the theme for the bad guys in E.T., and even the main theme of Angela's Ashes). Add to this several important themes (including this one) played throughout the score mainly by the brass, with the horns being prominent, and some militaristic-like rhythmic figurations appearing in some of the action cues, or for example in the last cue before the end credits, 1:54 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn1_TUbvpdc
which reminds of several march-like pieces for which Williams is well known. It's not as if Goldsmith borrowed anything literally, but if I had to point to a score by Goldsmith that could have been written by Williams, I'd say this one. What do you hear in Poltergeist that sounds Williams?
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16 hours ago, Jay said:
Yesterday I randomly realized that we're now in a world where as much of JW's 2001-2005 feature film output has been expanded than hasn't been!
Expanded:
- A.I. Artificial Intelligence
- Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
- Minority Report
- Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
- War of the Worlds
Not Expanded:
- Attack of the Clones
- Catch Me If You Can
- The Terminal
- Revenge of the Sith
- Memoirs of a Geisha
- Munich
When you factor in that Memoirs and Munich aren't possible until the union fees change, we're 6/10ths of the way through what can be!
Here's hoping Disney Records makes AOTC and ROTS happen, and a specialty label is interested in CMIYC and The Terminal!
Growing up waiting decades for my favorite 70s-90s scores to get expanded, it's great that so much he did in the early 2000s is already expanded!
Which of these expansions have you enjoyed the most, and which are you looking forward to being next up?
Expansions that I have enjoyed the most: A. I. (a true eye-opener on a masterpiece) and Azkaban.
Most desired: it would be Memoirs, if it were possible, but since it isn't, definitely ROTS and then AOTC. I do not expect CMIYC and The Terminal to contain much more great material than what is already included in the OSTs, so I would give them a lower priority. I would surely buy them as well, however.
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4 hours ago, InTheCity said:
36 sounds in ET the fourth horn plays a Bb instead of Bnatural, a written F#.It sounds completely alien to me but it may sound fine to you.
In my copy of the Signature Edition full score, the 4th horn has F natural, so Bb in real sounds, as played here. Of course, it is a huge error (one of the many affecting the Signature Edition scores), it should be F# as you say, but this explains how the mistake happened (if your copy has the correct note F#, maybe it is a later reprint). What it doesn't explain is how nobody noticed and corrected the wrong note at the rehearsals. It is not the first time that mistakes in the Signature Edition scores make their way to the performance.
John Williams - Most Collected Disney Records
in JOHN WILLIAMS
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... if only!