Chris ChrusherComix

Me too. Hate it every time, grit my teeth a little bit. It works for the mainstream audience, but the music intended and unused is superior. Overwhelming parts of the audiences don't buy film scores and have no idea the music intended for that scene. It is an example of what I mean though... it works, but many agree they should have not tracked that when the intended music worked so great anyways. Both JP and TLW suffer from tracked parts. In the film, sure, it works, but the intended music would've been better.

As long-time JWFans know (many probably forgot me), I dust off my old JWFan profile to join in the glee at such glorious releases such as these.

And as many remember, while JP complete will be fun but not a hell of a lot of extras. It is TLW complete is what I've always wanted, as it is the most tracked and worst edited John Williams/Spielberg movie - unusual for Spielberg, as he usually trusts Williams' instincts and sometimes edits the score to the music. This was a rare aberration from his usual methods, as the main themes were clumsily tracked into some of the film's highlights and ruined the entire movie, IMO. It's tracked worse than TPM! Had to listen to my old, crude DVD rips to enjoy it, and crude they were. To have it complete and in chronological... outside of truly complete and chronological Star Wars scores, this was up there near the top. Expanded Rescuing Sarah? Any and all missing music in the dino-chase sequences? Ludlow's Demise properly placed? Oh man... this will get a LOT of play!

Thank you Michael M., and co.! Already know it's going to be as close to perfection as humanly possible on a CD set release. Can't wait for it!

As long-time JWFans know (many probably forgot me), I dust off my old JWFan profile to join in the glee at such glorious releases such as these.

And as many remember, while JP complete will be fun but not a hell of a lot of extras. It is TLW complete is what I've always wanted, as it is the most tracked and worst edited John Williams/Spielberg movie - unusual for Spielberg, as he usually trusts Williams' instincts and sometimes edits the score to the music. This was a rare aberration from his usual methods, as the main themes were clumsily tracked into some of the film's highlights and ruined the entire movie, IMO. It's tracked worse than TPM! Had to listen to my old, crude DVD rips to enjoy it, and crude they were. To have it complete and in chronological... outside of truly complete and chronological Star Wars scores, this was up there near the top. Expanded Rescuing Sarah? Any and all missing music in the dino-chase sequences? Ludlow's Demise properly placed? Oh man... this will get a LOT of play!

Thank you Michael M., and co.! Already know it's going to be as close to perfection as humanly possible on a CD set release. Can't wait for it!

This set should've been released three years ago for the 20th Anniversary. 

I hate the Hyperspace music tracked over the Hoth search scene. I much prefer Williams original

As long-time JWFans know (many probably forgot me), I dust off my old JWFan profile to join in the glee at such glorious releases such as these.

And as many remember, while JP complete will be fun but not a hell of a lot of extras. It is TLW complete is what I've always wanted, as it is the most tracked and worst edited John Williams/Spielberg movie - unusual for Spielberg, as he usually trusts Williams' instincts and sometimes edits the score to the music. This was a rare aberration from his usual methods, as the main themes were clumsily tracked into some of the film's highlights and ruined the entire movie, IMO. It's tracked worse than TPM! Had to listen to my old, crude DVD rips to enjoy it, and crude they were. To have it complete and in chronological... outside of truly complete and chronological Star Wars scores, this was up there near the top. Expanded Rescuing Sarah? Any and all missing music in the dino-chase sequences? Ludlow's Demise properly placed? Oh man... this will get a LOT of play!

Thank you Michael M., and co.! Already know it's going to be as close to perfection as humanly possible on a CD set release. Can't wait for it!

 
You can always go back to the basics!
 

Not only that -
It seems related to this figure (1:05 in Palpatine's Seduction from ep 3).
a very dark side motif.
 
somone else discovered that and posted it in another thread somewhere, i definitely would never have known.

I just read Filmtrack's extentive 6000+ word 5 star review.
 
He mentions that those agitated strings near the end of the Snoke track return at 1:28 of Torn Apart when Ren kills Han. Wow...I never noticed that before and it is a fantastic musical link between Ren's horrific act and Snoke.

Absolutely - I was just commenting on how challenging I think it will be to create any one presentation of the score that is "definitive" as so many cues will have alts for little sections of them....
 

Sure, but one can still combine the OST and FYC into a listenable program fairly easily since there isn't much alternate material between them.
 
It's if video games come out releasing bits and bobs from various versions of cues that things will get really complicated....

Based on what I've been able to get from interviews with JW, JJ and others, as well as face-to-face conversations with people who would know, the process on TFA for JW was a departure from his usual way of scoring films, the result being there was never one DEFINITIVE version of the score written.  For one thing, he scored the movie one reel at a time, starting with reel 1 and progressing linearly through the film, which he never would otherwise do. 
 
Secondly, he rewrote cues to fit picture changes instead of having the music editor cut them to fit the film, at least until there simply wasn't time to write and record any more revisions.  So if JJ added fifteen seconds to a sequence, JW would look at the addition and perhaps completely rewrite the cue, or instead fashion an insert to cover the new material.  So, as he was doing reel 2 he'd also pick up any bits that needed to be revised for Reel 1.   As reel 3 was being recorded, he'd go back and revise r1 and r2.  etc.
 
Now, since there was recording being done right up to the last minute, my guess is that a lot of the OST would favor music recorded earlier in the process.  Something like the OST version of "Snoke" might be a cue written for an earlier version of the film that no longer really relates to the final Snoke scenes in the film.  Much like the conveyor belt cue from AOTC, which I believe was written, at best, to an animatic, and not to anything resembling a cut of the actual scene, there may be music on the OST that is impossible to reconcile with any scene shot-for-shot in the final film.
 
Now, the FYC, if JW has followed the Academy rules, must contain the film versions of cues, with no concert versions, suites or such.  It does not have to be COMPLETE, but it must match the movie with what it does contain, similiar to an isolated score track.  I have not been able to verify that it does, but as I said, it SHOULD.
 
(UPDATE: Since the making of this film and it's score was so fluid, it's possible JW wrote "Rey Meets BB8" for that scene, then as the editors were cutting the later reels, they were using music they had from earlier reels as temp.  So perhaps they partly tracked "Rey Meets BB8" into the R2 waking scene and Williams made a new cue using the same material for a number of bars or pages before taking it off in a different direction.  We see examples of this in his conductors score and sketches for AOTC and ROTS, where he literally cut-and-pasted Hal Leonard "Throne Room and End Titles" pages into the score, or instructed the orchestrator to copy measures from another cue or ver of a cue.)
 
In my opinion, if one is going to try to build a definitive, comprehensive cd of the score, it's going to be challenging because of the way the music was created for this film....
 

I predict next week sometime, but of course there's no guarantee of anything!

Alright, I finally had time to finish my second pass through the film, and have completely revamped the complete cue list in the main post.  A few spots I had thought were unreleased before are actually on the OST, and the whole list now takes into account what we learned from the FYC.
 
I don't have time to list every change, but I do have some points to bring up:
 
1. I was wrong before when I said thanks to the FYC we now have the entire opening of the film; There's actually a completely unreleased cue that goes in between the "Part 1" and "Part 2" FYC tracks of "The Attack on Jakku".  Basically: "Part 1" covers the Star Destroyer reveal / ship launch, Poe and Lor's convo, and the entire seige on the village by the stormtroopers ending with Ren's arrival.  Then the cue for Lor and Ren talking ending with Ren killing Lor is completely unreleased.  "Part 2" is the music for Ren and Poe's convo and Ren's order to Phasma to "Kill Them All", including the transition back up to the Star Destroyer.  That final note of the cue is a stinger for Finn entering the center of the frame in the Star Destroyer hanger.
 
2. The opening 39 seconds of OST track "The Scavenger": Anyone feel like almost doesn't belong here?  It's possible this bit was intended for the scenes of Rey in the Star Destroyer but was dialed out, but I wonder if it could actually be for some entire other scene I haven't identified yet?
 
3. Rey Meets BB-8 OST cue: This is is so confusing!  Essentially, the first 1:10 of this OST track is used twice in the film: Once for when Rey meets BB8, but then again when R2 powers up and shows the map for our heroes.  However, neither time it exactly matches the OST version (you can tell yourself by comparing FYC version for its second use).  So it's hard to know which scene it was intended for and which was tracked, and where the different music comes from (Inserts?).  The part from 1:10-end of the track doesn't appear in the film at all, further confusing things!
 
4. I think the opening ~30 seconds of the OST track "I Can Fly Anything" is an alternate, earlier opening of the cue.  The final film / FYC version's first ~1:00 is probably an insert recorded later to replace it.
 
5. "The Girl With The Staff" is one of those classic Williams OST tracks that combines music from 3 different scenes in the film together.  Took me a while to realize that!  See my revised cue list or my OST breakdown below to see how he
assembled it.
 
6. The whole ending of "The Rathtars!" is actually different from the film version and there's other music in the track that wasn't in the film.  Again see the revised cue list and OST breakdown.
 
7. Frankly I'm confused by the two version of "Snoke".  Basically, Snoke has 3 scenes in the film.  The first scene we have exactly what's heard in the film in the FYC track.  BUT I think the choral stuff there is exactly the same as the OST choral stuff.  But on the OST, the choral stuff goes on for longer then has some orchestra stuff at the end that isn't in the film.  The second Snoke scene, the music is hard to hear.  I think it might re-use the same FYC/OST choral stuff, but I'm not sure.  The 3rd Snoke scene is short and I don't think has a choral element (can't remember now).  So basically, I think he recorded what's on the OST as "Snoke" as a wild arrangement designed to be a good listening experience on the OST, and the choral stuff was put into the film for the first Snoke scene, mixed with the orchestra cue he wrote for it.  Or something.  Long story short, I think it makes sense to just use the FYC track in the flow of the film score, and the OST track as a bonus track, but you could place in chronologically where the second Snoke scene goes too, if you want.  But it definitely repeats the same choral performance!

There's still so many tiny differences between OST and FYC/film to breakdown, but I think I got all the major stuff covered now!

So, I thought it'd be interesting to put together a breakdown of the OST to see how Williams compiled it.  Here we go!
 
(I also listed when the same cue was released on the FYC)
 
01. Main Title and the Attack on the Jakku Village (6:25)
[0:00-1:26] = cue 1 Main Title
[1:26-3:07] = cue 2 Starry Night (FYC 01A [0:00-2:09])
[3:07-5:03] = cue 3 Village Attack (FYC 01B [2:09-end]
[5:03-end] = cue 5 Kill Them All (FYC 02)
 
02. The Scavenger (3:39)
[0:00-0:39] = unknown, possibly unused opening of:
[0:39-2:21] = cue 7 Rey The Scavenger (FYC 03)
[2:21-end] = cue 8 Lunchtime (FYC 04)
 
03. I Can Fly Anything (3:11)
[all] = cue 12 I Can Fly Anything (FYC 05)
 
04. Rey Meets BB-8 (1:31)
[0:00-1:10] = either cue 9 BB-8 Meets Rey or cue 61 R2 Shows The Map (up for debate which is the intended position and which is the tracked)
[1:10-end] = unknown, probably unused ending of previous cue
 
05. Follow Me (2:54)
[all] = cue 15 Follow Me (FYC07A [0:00-3:09])
 
06. Rey’s Theme (3:11)
[all] = concert arrangment of Rey's Theme
 
07. The Falcon (3:32)
[all] = cue 16 The Falcon (FYC07B [3:09-end])
 
08. That Girl With The Staff (1:58)
[0:00-0:35] = cue 17 Finn, I'm Rey
[0:35-1:11] = cue 14 Stolen Jacket
[1:11-end] = cue 18 The Droid Stole A Freighter?
 
09. The Rathtars! (4:05)
[0:00-1:01] = cue 19 Poisonous Gas
[1:01-1:22] = not in film, probably unused opening to next cue
[1:22-2:13] = cue 22 Rathtars Unleashed (FYC 08)
[2:13-end] = cue 24 Escape In the Millenium Falcon
 
10. Finn’s Confession (2:08)
[0:00-0:52] = cue 31 I'm No Hero (FYC 11)
[0:52-1:17] = cue 27 Arrival At Takodana
[1:17-end] = cue 28 You Got A Name? (FYC 10)
 
11. Maz’s Counsel (3:07)
[0:00-1:21] = cue 30 Maz Examines Finn
[1:21-end] = cue 34 Maz and Rey
 
12. The Starkiller (1:51)
[all] = cue 35 The Starkiller (FYC 12)
 
13. Kylo Ren Arrives At The Battle (2:01)
[all] = cue 36 Kylo Ren Arrives At The Battle (FYC 13)
 
14. The Abduction (2:25)
[all] = cue 38 The Abduction (FYC 15)
 
15. Han And Leia (4:41)
[0:00-2:52] = cue 39 Finn and Poe, United (FYC 16)
[2:52-end] = cue 40 Han and Leia Discuss Kylo
 
16. March of the Resistance (2:35)
[all] = concert arrangment of The Resistance theme
 
17. Snoke (2:03)
[all] = I believe this to be an assembly made just for the album of the choral track recorded for Snoke scenes with some original orchestral stuff at the end (that isn't heard in the film).  The choral piece was used in Snoke's first
scene (cue 25 / FYC 09), and I believe his second scene too.
 
18. On the Inside (2:05)
[all] = cue 54 "Planting Charges" (FYC 18B [0:48-end])
 
19. Torn Apart (4:19)
[all] = cue 55 Torn Apart (FYC 19)
 
20. The Ways Of The Force (3:14)
[0:00-0:45] = cue 56 "Rey Gets The Lightsaber"
[0:45-end] = cue 58 "Rey Vs Ren" (FYC 20B [1:20-end])
 
21. Scherzo For X-Wings (2:32)
[all] = concert version of cue 57 "The Trench Run" (FYC20A [0:00-1:20])
 
22. Farewell And The Trip (4:55)
[0:00-2:05] = cue 60 "The Journey Home" (FYC 21)
[2:05-end] = cue 62 "Rey's Trip" (FYC 22B [1:10-end])
 
23. The Jedi Steps And Finale (8:51)
[0:00-2:12] = cue 63 The Jedi Steps (FYC 23A [0:00-2:11])
[2:12-6:07] = End Credits part 1 (FYC 23B [2:11-6:04])
[6:07-7:28] = Repeated section of "March of the Resistance" (FYC 23C [6:04-8:34])
[7:28-end] = End Credits part 2 (FYC 23D [8:34-end])
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
REVISED NUMBERS
 
102 minutes of score in the final cut of the film (not including Miranda/Abrams source music).  77 of that released between the OST and FYC, leaving 25 completely unreleased.
 
The OST has another 15 minutes of music that isn't used in the film anywhere, meaning in total 92 minutes out of the 175 recorded has been released.  This leaves about 83 minutes completely unreleased and unheard.

I'm waiting for the FYC to leak in lossless before doing mine.

I wonder how substantial the complete complete score is.  Even with the film cues, it still feels a bit incomplete for some reason. 

I hope so!

You are right. Is not that they can't work with the material. They just cannot do a commercial release until Sony's contract expires. I'm sure new releases are in the works, at least on the first stages.

Well exactly, he wouldn't say he's forbidden from talking about it unless he's signed a contract forbidding him from discussing it! Put two and two together.
 
As for the prequels, Disney won't wait until Sony's contract expires to start working on it. They'd be getting those prepped in advance to allow for a release the week Sony's ownership finishes. The recording sessions are owned and stored at Lucasfilm, after all.

I think he is involved in a Star Wars related project, judging from the JWFAN exclusive interview where he said an "Imperial Decree" impeded him from talking about any future releases.

I feel like there is only one person who can do justice to any expanded JW score. Mike M. is the chosen one.

I'm too pretty sure we're gonna get an expanded 2 CD set much sooner than we expect. I just hope it'll be produced and assembled with the supervision of some insightful and caring person, btw...

The OST has superior dynamic range, but the UE has a superior drier sound. I'm being torn apart!

 
Are you sure about that? I find it's puncher and of course far less reverby than the OST. It almost reminds me of the sound quality of Ifukube's 1990s Godzilla scores from Toshiba/Futureland, and those are my go-to reference discs.