The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,377]

I think the weathertop scene was filmed AFTER the Azog designed changed but BEFORE Shore scored the (bulk of the) film. The filming Manu was doing 4 weeks before the premiere was likely Out of the Frying Pan stuff. Just look how different THAT music is

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,377]

I think Azog didn't appear in any of the commercials or trailers for 2 reasons:

1. They had decided they wanted to change the character design, and couldn't release any images until his look was COMPLETELY finalized

2. He's not that important of a character, especially when trying to sell the movie

BTW, I pointed out before, and it's worth repeating again: Yazneg has both of his arms in all his scenes in the final film, and all the action figures, so it must have been a last minute idea to have his arm get cut off and replaced by a hook as well

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,377]

I dunno, but before they decided to make Azog an entirely CGI creation and it was a man in a costume, it would have been hard for him to have a hook hand using prosthetics, especially during the warg chase stuff.

Unless they CGIed his left hand back in for the warg chase scene!

[Smeltington 1,441]

They could always have intended to CG the hook hand onto the actor, but in that case I guess the toys would have reflected that.

Thinking about all this is starting to make my head hurt...

[Jay 37,377]

Theoretically, if the original Azog also had his left arm cut off too, than the actor would wear a green glove up to his elbow in all scenes except the Azanulbizar flashback..... maybe someone can frame-by-frame the shots he's in in the warg chase, maybe it's visible somewhere if that's the case.

BTW, next time you watch the warg chase, check of Thorin's reactions around the time Ori shoots Yazneg with his slingshot. It looks to me like Thorin originally discovered that Azog survived the Battle of Azanulbizar there, not during the Frying Pan sequence.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Smeltington 1,441]

Hmmm, well there's the shot of the remaining orcs riding away, and it does seem to imply we'll see them again. So it makes sense they would need the Weathertop scene to wrap things up.

Jason, you could very well be right but I don't think it's clear whether Thorin was originally reacting to Azog. Ori has a strong reaction, though, like he's saying "No!" It seems like he wouldn't be that surprised to see Yazneg.

[Incanus 5,716]

This Azog business has everybody all excited. But at this point I don't really care about where Azog sprouted from and at what point they replaced him with a CGI zombie Orc. All I know that he is an annoying contrivance of the screen writers' need to have some kind of external force driving the dwarven company on even when there is no real reason to do so. And they picked the wrong orc for the job.

[Faleel 5,365]

Good to know that.

[Incanus 5,716]

Good to know that.

I know. But I guess we have to pass the time before DoS somehow in this thread. And Azog is the biggest mystery... well ever. Conundrum wrapped in a delicious coating of riddle with an enigma on top.

Damn now I feel hungry. For some mystery.

(Make sure you continue through halfway down page 198 as well!)

Fascinating stuff!I also saw some posts says PJ is a nightmare to the special effects department (I'm not going to quote and reply to something like 50 pages ago) which was very unfair. He's providing them work! Without getting them to make effects this company he helped set up would have to fire people. There was an issue trying to find them work after LOTR and before King Kong so they would have been grateful when they were in good business.

I think the point with the saying that PJ is a nightmare to the effects company is about the issue of last minute changes, sometimes very big changes and usually more shots and more complicated shots with very little time to execute them. RotK was a good example where the effects people were almost driven to the ground by such demands, like the eagles in the final scenes, that were required by PJ at a very late stage and the FX people didn't know anything about them (I think this must have been some kind of production oversight as those must have been in the script for a long time). This has nothing to do with PJ giving them work but rather giving too much work at a too late a stage of the post production. Azog I think would qualify as such work.

[Barnald 365]

The fact that Yazneg has both his arms intact suggests he was almost certainly dealt a mortal wound at Azanulbizar (to the body I presume) only to be later revived by the Necromancer. Now this may yet be the case for Azog, though the arm injury suggests otherwise. And if they did decide to change that at a late stage that is a good thing.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

I feel sorry for the person under those heavy prosthetics which probably took several hours to build up on a daily basis only to find himself unceremoniously painted over with CGI due to the unending umming and arring of world's most fickle and nauseatingly indulgent film maker.

[Incanus 5,716]

And they picked the wrong orc for the job.

Are you saying I'm... fired?

Awww look at those blue orcish CG eyes. Who could say no to those. So I say yes, yes you would be fired if I had anything to say but since I don't you have to continue being a forced obstacle in the way of Thorin's company (or rather lagging behind).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Hlao-roo 389]

I feel sorry for the person under those heavy prosthetics which probably took several hours to build up on a daily basis only to find himself unceremoniously painted over with CGI due to the unending umming and arring of world's most fickle and nauseatingly indulgent film maker.

[Barnald 365]

I feel sorry for the person under those heavy prosthetics which probably took several hours to build up on a daily basis only to find himself unceremoniously painted over with CGI due to the unending umming and arring of world's most fickle and nauseatingly indulgent film maker.

Come on this is essentially nothing new. Think of all those actors who Malick left on the cutting room floor in The Thin Red Line for example. And we're going to see it again in DoS, with Sir Antony Sher re-filming the role of Thrain (the production diary reveals they are doing the Dol Guldur scenes with Thrain again). As brutal as it might be on the previous actor, I see that as an upgrade, and welcome this decision.

In the end Jackson made the right choice. Azog is a far better adversary than 'Yazneg' would have been. The scenes when he's raining down blows on Thorin wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective if 'Yazneg' was the one doing it.

I recall Manu Bennett posting on his Facebook page last June/July that he was doing the mo-cap for Azog. He may have been doing stuff up until late October but no doubt they were doing the CGI from the get-go. They would have probably done the Weathertop scene in the summer, hence why Shore could have scored it. Now four months to render Azog is pretty short but a month would be impossible. Hence why I earnestly think he'll look even better in the next film.

[Jay 37,377]

The fact that Yazneg has both his arms intact suggests he was almost certainly dealt a mortal wound at Azanulbizar (to the body I presume) only to be later revived by the Necromancer. Now this may yet be the case for Azog, though the arm injury suggests otherwise. And if they did decide to change that at a late stage that is a good thing.

Hey, good point there!

[Quintus 5,399]

I feel sorry for the person under those heavy prosthetics which probably took several hours to build up on a daily basis only to find himself unceremoniously painted over with CGI due to the unending umming and arring of world's most fickle and nauseatingly indulgent film maker.

Referral denied

I feel sorry for the person under those heavy prosthetics which probably took several hours to build up on a daily basis only to find himself unceremoniously painted over with CGI due to the unending umming and arring of world's most fickle and nauseatingly indulgent film maker.

Come on this is essentially nothing new. Think of all those actors who Malick left on the cutting room floor in The Thin Red Line for example. And we're going to see it again in DoS, with Sir Antony Sher re-filming the role of Thrain (the production diary reveals they are doing the Dol Guldur scenes with Thrain again). As brutal as it might be on the previous actor, I see that as an upgrade, and welcome this decision.

In the end Jackson made the right choice. Azog is a far better adversary than 'Yazneg' would have been. The scenes when he's raining down blows on Thorin wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective if 'Yazneg' was the one doing it.

I recall Manu Bennett posting on his Facebook page last June/July that he was doing the mo-cap for Azog. He may have been doing stuff up until late October but no doubt they were doing the CGI from the get-go. They would have probably done the Weathertop scene in the summer, hence why Shore could have scored it. Now four months to render Azog is pretty short but a month would be impossible. Hence why I earnestly think he'll look even better in the next film.

I appreciate what you're saying and with any other director you would be right, but c'mon - this is Sir Peter Jackson we are taking about. A name which strikes fear in the hearts of special effects engineers throughout the industry.

[Incanus 5,716]

I appreciate what you're saying and with any other director you would be right, but c'mon - this is Sir Peter Jackson we are taking about. A name which strikes fear in the hearts of special effects engineers throughout the industry.

He is known as "Last Minute Jackson" in those circles.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,020]

Oh yeah that sequence from the fourth film.

Karol

[Incanus 5,716]

Oh yeah that sequence from the fourth film.

Karol

"Yeah we decided that there was enough material for the 4th film. It will focus entirely on the history of dwarves and will mostly consist of my own expanded history of the people and not so much on the boring stuff Tolkien wrote. I think we can squeeze a few hundred FX shots into these 2 days we have left of the posproduction."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,716]

"Oh, and all the Dwarves will have to be CG, because I just realized now that I don't like their design."

"But that's the way it goes with film making. It is a journey and sometimes things that were great before feel dull and boring later but luckily there are CG effects these days so changing them won't be so difficult. I basically point and 400 FX people will change what I need changed. Thank god for green screen."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

Maybe her character in MI4 was what ended up being Léa Seydoux' character.

[Wycket 36]

I'd imagine so.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,365]

I never heard that the guy who originally played Jabba the hutt in SW (1977) really complained when he got cut, then replaced with a CG version in 1997....

[gkgyver 1,646]

Is that the guy? I don't want to be rude, but he even looks like Jabba underneath the mask ... back then, Lucas really seemed to care for detail.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Your dont want to be rude?

[Quintus 5,399]

He's turned over a new leaf. Good for him!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'll believe it when I'll see it!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[chuck 155]

Well, they look cleaner, less slimier than the LOTR orcs.

[Incanus 5,716]

I am not a big fan of the goblin design in The Hobbit. PJ was desperately trying to seek a whole new appearance for them when in my opinion creating something more in the line with LotR would have been better. Even though Moria orcs and Mordor orcs and Uruk-hai were different you could tell that there existed some kind of kinship between the goblin races. The goblins took a drastic turn away from that in design. The warg riders are a bit closer to the LotR orcs but they are also somehow more deformed than the previous designs (if possible), rather hunchbacky and heavy set. But perhaps they are Azog's toughest fighters.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wait! Look at those Dwarves? Does one of them have an axe in his skull? What's with the starfish hairdo?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Have you forgotten Bunnies Of Doom???

Bunnies....of Doom, Man!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You were right!

We should have listened. We could have stopped it. Now it is too late!

I bow to you in shame Alvar!

[Barnald 365]

I don't have a problem with that Orc you pointed out BloodBoal. I think the worst looking one in AUJ is the big nosed one who hangs around with Azog a lot.

The Goblins were distinct, and I didn't feel their design was completely out of place. If you look at the Moria Orcs, some are quite unlike any other Orcs we see throughout the rest of the LOTR films.

I liked the look of a lot of the Orcs at Azanulbizar - I thought many were larger, brutish sorts. The lack of armour is obviously a stylistic choice. And it makes sense when you consider that the Northern Orcs surely didn't have the factories and furnaces that Sauron and Saruman put into place. I'm guessing they probably had to scavenge whatever armour they did have.

But it does seem that we'll see some big, armoured types not dissimilar to the awesome ones who came out of Minas Morgul in ROTK. If you look around the minute mark in the new production diary, you see a very quick shot of Orcs in fairly uniform looking armour moving past. I'm guessing we'll probably see various elements of Orcs and Goblins at the Five Armies. Not sure about the AUJ Goblins in a battle, but it would be great if the Moria Orcs made an appearance.

[chuck 155]

Wow, way to go crazy on the caps lock and the Homer Simpson pic, Alvar.

I don't have a problem with that Orc you pointed out BloodBoal. I think the worst looking one in AUJ is the big nosed one who hangs around with Azog a lot.

The Goblins were distinct, and I didn't feel their design was completely out of place. If you look at the Moria Orcs, some are quite unlike any other Orcs we see throughout the rest of the LOTR films.

I liked the look of a lot of the Orcs at Azanulbizar - I thought many were larger, brutish sorts. The lack of armour is obviously a stylistic choice. And it makes sense when you consider that the Northern Orcs surely didn't have the factories and furnaces that Sauron and Saruman put into place. I'm guessing they probably had to scavenge whatever armour they did have.

But it does seem that we'll see some big, armoured types not dissimilar to the awesome ones who came out of Minas Morgul in ROTK. If you look around the minute mark in the new production diary, you see a very quick shot of Orcs in fairly uniform looking armour moving past. I'm guessing we'll probably see various elements of Orcs and Goblins at the Five Armies. Not sure about the AUJ Goblins in a battle, but it would be great if the Moria Orcs made an appearance.

That would be great on the credits:

With a special appearance of the Moria orcs.

[SafeUnderHill 205]