Composer Threads James Newton Howard thread

[Red 75]

So would I.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

That would be something of interest for sure.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

JNH is already a part of the Zimmer group. All his scores are mixed and recorded at RCP. And he's been consistently using Blake Neely. Face it, Zimmer is da masta.

As much as I love the guy, a Batman film with just him wouldn't be so great. I find he has a lack of experience dealing with action material. Blood Diamond was great, but of course that was very Zimmeresque.

Anyway, I'm excited for Tuesday.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

JNH's action music is often the most interesting and thrilling among modern film composers. Certainly 1000000x better than Zimmer.

[Wesker 0]

It certainly tends to be more thematic with all the drama of Zimmer at times, but in far more subtle ways. I particularly enjoy a few of his action cues from Waterworld and Wyatt Earp.

Plus, Zimmer's action writing is becoming far too cliche. Period.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yes, and I think one of his most recent scores, The Water Horse, showcases some of his best action material to date, especially in the last several finale cues.

[Jamesyboy 3]

JNH is already a part of the Zimmer group. All his scores are mixed and recorded at RCP. And he's been consistently using Blake Neely. Face it, Zimmer is da masta.

As much as I love the guy, a Batman film with just him wouldn't be so great. I find he has a lack of experience dealing with action material. Blood Diamond was great, but of course that was very Zimmeresque.

Anyway, I'm excited for Tuesday.

Blood Diamond was not an "action" film, and Howard's writing for that film was not "action" oriented. For good action writing from Mr. James, you must listen to Waterworld, Outbreak, Atlantis, Dinosaur, King Kong, The Package and Treasure Planet just to name a few. Very thematic, but boy does the orchestra move. It's funny, I always thought some of his best scores were the ones directed by Kevin Costner, which are the worst films!

Jamesyboy

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Don't forget The Fugitive, which isn't bad.

Oh, and I'm dying to hear Zimmer's two-note motif for the Joker. I bet you could actually see he and his team's brains working while trying to come up with that one.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yeah, I'm sure that special interval will really inject some magic into the film.

[Ollie 1,059]

JNH's action music has always been strong point for him.

[Richard Penna 3,715]

Definitely. The last 4 cues of The Water Horse are a favourite sequence of mine at the moment - the sequence has everything. Jamesyboy has hit the nail on the head regarding his action music. I really do think there's material in some of those scores that could rival Williams' orchestrational complexity, and while his themes might not always be complex, they're damn memorable.

I also think Howard is a rather good album producer. With the exception of The Village, they always have a good flow, include all of the key material, and very often include entire/comprehensive finales. King Kong and Water Horse I believe contain every bit of music in the film from the start of the respective main sequences until the credits, whilst providing good coverage of the rest of the score. Williams should take some lessons.

The clip of The Happening sounds great, and the score is out tomorrow! The album also looks good and lengthy, and amazingly, we have another 8 minute credits suite - I wonder if Howard is finally seeing the light?

Wonder if it'll leak a few hours early

[Koray Savas 2,251]

First of all, The Water Horse is most definitely not an action score. Blood Diamond is most definitely an action score, if you say it isn't, I don't know what to call you. Basically James Newton Howard's action scores consist of Waterworld, Wyatt Earp, The Fugitive, and Blood Diamond.

They are excellent scores, but like I said, he doesn't have experience with the modern action film, and a Batman score composed entirely by him would not be as good as a collaborative effort IMO.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

First of all, The Water Horse is most definitely not an action score.

What does that have to do with anything? The score has a lot of action music in it.

Blood Diamond is most definitely an action score, if you say it isn't, I don't know what to call you.

There's probably more low-key, emotional music in it than action music.

[Jamesyboy 3]

First of all, The Water Horse is most definitely not an action score. Blood Diamond is most definitely an action score, if you say it isn't, I don't know what to call you. Basically James Newton Howard's action scores consist of Waterworld, Wyatt Earp, The Fugitive, and Blood Diamond.

They are excellent scores, but like I said, he doesn't have experience with the modern action film, and a Batman score composed entirely by him would not be as good as a collaborative effort IMO.

Well, my thought on "action" films are films like Waterword, just popcorn, don't take to seriously kinda-films. I would not throw Blood Diamond in the same class as Waterworld or the Fugitive. IMO, Blood Diamond is heavy realistic-feel type drama with some "chase" type sections in it, but for me, it is by no means an "action" flick, meaning it's not a Rambo.

And yes, The Water Horse maybe isn't a action flick, but those final cues are amazing. I haven't seen the film, but it sounds like there is a good chase and escape thing going on.

And that's how I see it!

Jamesyboy

[Richard Penna 3,715]

I'd define water Horse as a fantasy score. Why get so hung up over the definition of an action score anyway?

Blood Diamond is most definitely an action score, if you say it isn't, I don't know what to call you.

A person who doesn't really care how scores are classified as long as the music is good?

Funnily enough, the final scenes in Water Horse I'd say are ones in which the quality of the music generally surpbunses what's actually happening on screen. A prime example of attention to detail in the music severely diluted. Not trying to say the film is bad, but you often hear a piece of music which you imagine scoring some amazing shot, and when you see the film, it's buried under dialogue or SFX. It's kind of like that. Driving to the Loch for example, evokes a huge Scottish expanse with the camera panning over. Instead, we get a conversation in a truck... see what I mean?

(edit - now I understand that rubbish with the word 'bun' earlier. What the hell?)

[Morlock 11]

Blood Diamond is yet another african-inspired score, with some action material. I like the sound, but I don't think JNH does anything remotely notable. I don't understand the love that score gets. The Water Horse doesn't strike me as all as an action score. It's got some fantastic adventure stuff, yes. But the overall tone is in no way action-y, to my ears.

I personally love JNH's action music. But it's strongest bunset and biggest liability is how much like goldsmith it sounds. It makes for terrific action cues, and even on a less than great day JNH is one of the most listenable film composers working, but it doesn't have unique character to my ears. The Fugitive is not an score. It's got a couple of great action cues, but it is an urban thriller score. Hardly an action score.

I don't think JNH writes action scores. He's written a fair share of adventure scores, but those are a different genre.

[Richard Penna 3,715]

I don't get the love surrounding Blood Diamond or The Fugitive either. but hey, that's what makes this place interesting, we all like different things.

The only score in which I don't care for his action music is Hidalgo. Specifically, the cues The Race Begins and The Trap. They both have a hugely cartoonish quality to my ears, and mirror the serious cheese I see in the film. The former is just a little loud and abrasive, although it gets better with the string part.

Having said that, I think the quieter music in that score is wonderful.

I think the only real problem with JNH, is he hasn't yet done an absolute breakout score. He's working far too fast, doing like 4/5 scores per year, when I wish he'd spend maybe 6 months on a successful, major film and come up with an absolutely 5 star effort. I think he's come close, but either the film isn't major, half the score is cut, or he doesn't have much time.

[Wesker 0]

I personally love JNH's action music. But it's strongest bunset and biggest liability is how much like goldsmith it sounds. It makes for terrific action cues, and even on a less than great day JNH is one of the most listenable film composers working, but it doesn't have unique character to my ears. The Fugitive is not an score. It's got a couple of great action cues, but it is an urban thriller score. Hardly an action score.

I don't think JNH writes action scores. He's written a fair share of adventure scores, but those are a different genre.

You've hit upon a reason why modern day action scoring is only getting more and more difficult for an non-MV composer. If you're not going to use layers and layers of synth, but want to sound original using mainly orchestral instruments, it is very difficult to find your own voice in action writing. Chances are, you'll end up sounding a little too much like Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, ect, because the very nature of the process has been exploited so many times already. In those regards, I can forgive JNH for sounding a little like JG at times.

Anyway, Zimmer has already set the action sound for Batman already. He, or one of his cronies must continue that aspect of scoring the films. A pity Howard couldn't of scored Batman Begins all by himself...

[Morlock 11]

I like the Batman Begins score, and I'm excited for the next one. But I am mightliy curious as to what those ideas would have sounded like coming purely from JNH. Although I do think that the position of 'everything good in it is JNH, the rest is Zimmer' is quite ridicules.

I think that Powell has managed to create an action sound for himself, managed to merge the electronics extremely successfully into his action music. Goldenthal has his own action sound, too. I'm hard-pressed to think of someone else...I'm told Tyler has a sound, but I can't say I know enough of his music to judge.

[QMM 4]

so they just had some clips from The Happening on the Cinemagic radio station. 3 tracks from what I heard.

Opened with what I guess is the first track, as it had the main theme. It's a simple theme but I wouldn't call it haunting. It's more tragic but it sounds great with the cello and the piano behind it. Next was an action track, which sounded great and then I think it ended with a snippet of the credits suite since it had the main theme with some gorgeous layering behind it.

[Jamesyboy 3]

I think that Powell has managed to create an action sound for himself, managed to merge the electronics extremely successfully into his action music. Goldenthal has his own action sound, too. I'm hard-pressed to think of someone else...I'm told Tyler has a sound, but I can't say I know enough of his music to judge.

Tyler does definitely have his own sound, and I'm a huge fan of him. I think his action writing is intense, but the only problem with his action material IMO is that it starts to sound repetitive from score to score. But otherwise, I think he's one to watch. Timeline and AVP:Requiem are my 2 favorite action scores of his.

And I agree about Powell too. Love his action material and he definitely has a voice . The house fight in X-Men III is awesome. He does some great stuff in Paycheck as well.

Jamesyboy - a big fan of JNHoward, Powell, Tyler...and Ottman!

[Red 75]

I like the Batman Begins score, and I'm excited for the next one. But I am mightliy curious as to what those ideas would have sounded like coming purely from JNH. Although I do think that the position of 'everything good in it is JNH, the rest is Zimmer' is quite ridicules.

I would have to agree, even though I like JNH's work more and think he should score a Batman movie by himself.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Batman Begins was mainly driven by Hans Zimmer. You can easily point out who did what, and that same process was taken for The Dark Knight. In Begins, Zimmer basically took care of everything action-orientated, from the theme to all the fight and chase sequences. Howard basically composed music for the suspenseful parts and touching parts, such as scenes with Bruce and Rachel, as well as the dock scene.

I listened to an interview with the 2 for The Dark Knight. Basically, Hans took care of everything Batman and the Joker, while Howard took care of Harvey Dent's story. They just split up the movie.

[David Coscina 4]

Score is available on iTunes Plus (256 kbps) and it sounds pretty damned great. Lot of solo cello work on this outing.

[Jamesyboy 3]

Just checking out the samples for The Happening right now...man, the cue "Shotgun" sounds intense! Definitely picking this up tomorrow...along with Kung Fu Panda!

Jamesyboy

[Romão 2,274]

Interesting interview by JNH and Zimmer concerning The Dark Knight

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/extendedpl...n-the-dark.html

[QMM 4]

JNH makes a good argument for not having an Elfman style theme

[David Coscina 4]

1. James Newton Howard is NOT NEW! He's been scoring films since 1988 with films like Major League.

2. He's written some of the best action cues in the past 20 years. Listen to "It all Ends Now" from Wyatt Earp with its 5/4 time signature. Or "The Great Eatlon" (stupid title notwithstanding) from Lady in the Water. Or more impressively, "The Pier" from Falling Down. He uses percussion as a propulsive compositional device as opposed to MV guys who use it as a crutch because they cannot come up with some great rhythmic ostinatos.

3. I would love to hear an all JN Howard Batman score ANY DAY of the week. Since I cannot, I listen to the best superhero score of the new milennium- it's called Unbreakable. That score is timeless and has so much great material on it.

4. Batman Begins has some excellent writing on it which is all JN Howard. The quieter material is amazing.

5. Howard is probably our best hope of someone carrying on where Goldsmith left off. His interview reveals an incredibly intelligent composer who is also very articulate. Zimmer comes off as a total boob next to JN Howard in my opinion.

6. Howard can employ electronics in his scores but more organically so that the music still retains that acoustic air to it. Waterhorse and I AM LEGEND are two fine scores.

My feeling about JN Howard is that he will be the film composer of choice for most directors in the way that Goldsmith was. Zimmer is (sadly) more along the John Williams side of the equation insofar as popularity goes. Howard is the guy that approaches his scores with the same intellectual assertion that Jerry did with his seminal 70s, 80s, and 90s work.

My thoughts anyway.

[indy4 155]

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I've decided that JNH is now my 2nd favorite composer (followed by Elfman, then Zimmer).

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

My feeling about JN Howard is that he will be the film composer of choice for most directors in the way that Goldsmith was.

Does that mean he will be condemned to writing good scores for pooty movies for the rest of his career?

[Jamesyboy 3]

2. He's written some of the best action cues in the past 20 years. Listen to "It all Ends Now" from Wyatt Earp with its 5/4 time signature. Or "The Great Eatlon" (stupid title notwithstanding) from Lady in the Water. Or more impressively, "The Pier" from Falling Down. He uses percussion as a propulsive compositional device as opposed to MV guys who use it as a crutch because they cannot come up with some great rhythmic ostinatos.

My thoughts anyway.

The Great Eatlon is pure genius. That's one cue that gives me goosebumbs. Howard has a great gift in capturing the on screen emotion in his music. The finale of Signs is another one his great moments.

Jamesyboy - BIG JNHoward fan.

[QMM 4]

Almost done with the Happening album right now. Overall it's solid. There isn't a huge climax cue like Eatlon or the Hand of Fate, but it gets close in Be With You. End Credits Suite doesn't reuse any music, and it even has this fast paced middle section that caught me off guard at first.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I've decided that JNH is now my 2nd favorite composer (followed by Elfman, then Zimmer).

JNH has been my 2nd favorite composer for awhile. Probably ever since I started listening to him about 8 years ago.

Elfman, for me, used to be #3, but has slipped past into the lower end of my Top 10.

#1 - Ennio Morricone & John Williams

#2 - James Newton Howard

#3 - Michael Giacchino

#4 - John Powell

#5 - Hans Zimmer

#6 - Harry Gregson-Williams

#7 - Danny Elfman

#8 - Thomas Newman

#9 - Alan Silvestri & Howard Shore & James Horner

Anywho, I'm listening to The Happening right now, on "Central Park". It's a magnificent score. It's too early to tell if it is distinctively better than his more recent work, but so far it's sounds pretty damn good.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I worked my way through The Happening once, and though it's a fairly low-key score, there's definitely some great and interesting music there. Looking forward to further discovering it.

[indy4 155]

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I've decided that JNH is now my 2nd favorite composer (followed by Elfman, then Zimmer).

JNH has been my 2nd favorite composer for awhile. Probably ever since I started listening to him about 8 years ago.

Elfman, for me, used to be #3, but has slipped past into the lower end of my Top 10.

#1 - Ennio Morricone & John Williams

#2 - James Newton Howard

#3 - Michael Giacchino

#4 - John Powell

#5 - Hans Zimmer

#6 - Harry Gregson-Williams

#7 - Danny Elfman

#8 - Thomas Newman

#9 - Alan Silvestri & Howard Shore & James Horner

Anywho, I'm listening to The Happening right now, on "Central Park". It's a magnificent score. It's too early to tell if it is distinctively better than his more recent work, but so far it's sounds pretty damn good.

Beyond my top 4 (JW, JNH, DE, HZ), I really don't have too big of a preference. I guess Herrmann, Goldsmith, Horner, or Shore would go next, but I really don't have enough of their work to pick a favorite.

I'll probably pick up The Happening this weekend.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I worked my way through The Happening once, and though it's a fairly low-key score, there's definitely some great and interesting music there. Looking forward to further discovering it.

Yeah, I've listened to it twice so far. It's very subtle and dark, but towards the end of the soundtrack it starts to pick up a little bit. It's a good score, but not better than Lady In The Water or The Village.

I also prefer I Am Legend, which is a knock-out score IMO, and is much better than Michael Clayton.

[indy4 155]

Just listened to all the track samples on iTunes, and to be honest...it sounds more boring than WotW. Does it pick up, or would I be better getting something else?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I wouldn't rate a score based on 30 second samples. That doesn't even allow you to get into the meat of the tracks. But like I said, it is a very subtle score. A lot better than War Of The Worlds IMO. It picks up at the end of the soundtrack and gets a little louder and more intense. Other than that it's very mysterious and dark music.

Not as good as his other Shyamalan collaborations, but a decent score nonetheless. Buy Kung Fu Panda.

[Richard Penna 3,715]

I worked my way through The Happening once, and though it's a fairly low-key score, there's definitely some great and interesting music there. Looking forward to further discovering it.

Yeah, I've listened to it twice so far. It's very subtle and dark, but towards the end of the soundtrack it starts to pick up a little bit. It's a good score, but not better than Lady In The Water or The Village.

I also prefer I Am Legend, which is a knock-out score IMO, and is much better than Michael Clayton.

That is precisely my initial reaction after one listen through the album. However, the film clearly needed a different score to Legend or Water Horse.

I plan to give it more attention over the next few days though - there is some very complex stuff going on in many cues, and it will probably also take a viewing of the film to completely appreciate.

Like QMM, that middle section of the End Title Suite caught me completely off guard. Maybe an unreleased cue he decided to include? Wouldn't be the first time he's included film/alternate versions of cues in the credits.

[Neimoidian 14]

I listened to it today and I like it. It may be one of the better scores this year, even though it lacks highlights of Great Eatlon or Hand of Fate p.2 stature. I'm eager to listen to it again in the evening.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

It doesn't sound like WotW at all.

It's more in the vein of the Sixth Sense, which is highly underrated IMO.

[Richard Penna 3,715]

I think it's a combination of every Shyamalan score he's done to date. It has, as you said, the 'vein' of the Sixth Sense, the solos in the style of The Village, the moodiness and *crash* of Signs, the orchestral outbursts of Lady in the Water, and some quieter piano passages like Unbreakable.

Plus I heard a little bit of Snow Falling on Cedars in the orchestration. It's a bit unlike the other ones, but it's a good score IMO.

[David Coscina 4]

I listened to it today and I like it. It may be one of the better scores this year, even though it lacks highlights of Great Eatlon or Hand of Fate p.2 stature. I'm eager to listen to it again in the evening.

Listen to "Be with You" a couple times. It's as amazing as The Great Eatlon in its emotional resonance and climatic summation of the score's ideas. Amazing. One of the best tracks I have heard by anyone in the last little while while.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Plus I heard a little bit of Snow Falling on Cedars in the orchestration.

I definitely heard some similiarities to "Tarawa" from that score, sans choir, in the credits track I think. Good stuff.

[David Coscina 4]

Plus I heard a little bit of Snow Falling on Cedars in the orchestration.

I definitely heard some similiarities to "Tarawa" from that score, sans choir, in the credits track I think. Good stuff.

i did notice a Japanese air to the cello line in the first track as well. I wonder if that was intentional or whether he was just wanting to use a few successive minor 2nd intervals.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

The Happening is a very interesting score. That's what I like about Newton Howard with this type of genre.

It doesn't necessarily grab you and pull you in upon first hearing the score, but it definitely grows on you with every further listen.

[Richard Penna 3,715]

Yep, I'd agree there. I'm liking it more and more with every listen, and themes seem to be appearing constantly in new places. I'd say, maybe along with Signs it takes a little getting into, definitely not as accessible as Lady in the Water (and I hope the upbeat passage in the middle of Be With You isn't meant to be a theme, because it sounds a bit MV-ish in its simplicity), but at this point I can safely say IMO this is a solid and worthy entry into this collaboration.

With the SFoC reference, I'm, talking about how he mixes the cello with the rest of the orchestra, and the slightly 'damp' sound it has. There are also moments like around 1.40 in Jess Comforts Elliot where the way the strings gather together is orchestrationally very similar. That part of the cue I'd say is almost a much more positive 'brother' to "Humanity Goes On Trial" in that it's also meandering around a little motif but one instrument never quite dominates.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

There's something about the end 40 seconds of "Evacuating Philadelphia" that harkens back to 70s movies for me...I can't put my finger on it though at the moment. I really love it, despite the low-keyness to it.

It's pretty simple, but there is something complex about the emotions it conveys, and it sorta takes slight lefts when you think it'll go right from note to note. I really enjoy it.

[mahler3 478]

Really enjoy The Happening too, listened to it a couple of times - Be With You and the End Title Suite are superb (do you remember the days when we frustratingly never got JNH's end title suites?!)

Have to admit i'm slightly sad though, as i'm more excited about this score than Williams latest Indy one! Ah well, onwards and upwards!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I personally don't want JNH to score a Batman film by himself for this simple reason, enough Batman movies already.