When J T Williams got it wrong

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

<_<

[HPFAN_2 0]

Being in the Directors seat many times now I realize how much influence the director has over his team of artists. The composer is no different. Of course a maestro like Williams will have some significant pull over what he will compose. But it is true he has to pleases his director and the film. Or end up like Yared.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yared pleased the director, he just failed to please the test audience.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

And chucked out by the studio.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I can see his score might be seen as overdone.

But who cares? Sometimes overdone is just the way it should be. Especially if it's that awesome!

[Maestro 147]

What about "Training Montage" from Spacecamp? 80's at their worst...

[MSM 126]

There is also some ugly music in The Paper Chase.

[Datameister 2,044]

I voted for ROTS' wailing woman. It doesn't bother me that much, but I really wish the scene had been scored differently.

The electric guitar in AOTC is...weird, but I find it effective. The drum beats in AI made me laugh at first, but they don't bother me much, at least in the context of the film, as long as I don't take them seriously. I haven't heard the CE3K disco bit. Lapti Nek is thoroughly bizarre and unsuited to a Star Wars film (I prefer Jedi Rocks), but I enjoy it nevertheless and would feel bad voting for it.

I'm tempted to vote for other, because the original unused Diagon Alley source cue from HP:SS was a really bad idea. I wish the tracked cue that was used were on the OST instead--you know, the one originally written for the entry into the Great Hall.

[John Crichton 4]

What about "Training Montage" from Spacecamp? 80's at their worst...

Yes yes yes. I also have to agree with Elmo on the pop Can You Read My Mind (pure evil) and Mark on Aunt Marge's Waltz (doesn't fit the scene).

Of those on the list, probably the techno in AI bothers me most, but as has been mentioned the scuttlebut is that was all written by Williams' son. And I like the electric guitar in The Chase Through Coruscant too, and the ethnic waaaaaaaaaaaaaaail in Padme's Ruminations.

[King Mark 3,631]

I voted for ROTS' wailing woman. It doesn't bother me that much, but I really wish the scene had been scored differently.

[Maestro 147]

I'm tempted to vote for other, because the original unused Diagon Alley source cue from HP:SS was a really bad idea. I wish the tracked cue that was used were on the OST instead--you know, the one originally written for the entry into the Great Hall.

To what do you refer? Is the Diagon Alley track on the OST unused? I'm confused...

[King Mark 3,631]

Anyways ,the other example that pops to mind is the interrupted kiss of Anakin and Padme in AotC whre the love theme just stops

[Datameister 2,044]

To what do you refer? Is the Diagon Alley track on the OST unused? I'm confused...

Yeah, I was talking about the Diagon Alley cue on the OST. It was used very little, if at all, in the final cut of HP:SS. I'm glad it wasn't, actually--this is one of those rare occasions when I prefer tracked music over the original intended cue. The original source cue on the OST is just a little too weird for my tastes, though it's naturally grown on me a little.

[King Mark 3,631]

They used it in CoS

[Henry B 50]

I'm tempted to vote for other, because the original unused Diagon Alley source cue from HP:SS was a really bad idea. I wish the tracked cue that was used were on the OST instead--you know, the one originally written for the entry into the Great Hall.

What, because it isn't a generic, orchestral cue? "Diagon Alley" should have provided a much needed break from the continually splendorous music.

[Lurker 5]

He got both "Duel of the Fates" and "Battle of the Heroes" wrong. They should have swapped films.

Neil

[JWfangirl1992 18]

I have to agree with nicholas about the flying theme in Superman. If it was actually sung and not spoken it might have been a bit better but it would be fine standing alone.

The electric guitar never bothered me, struck me as odd, but never bothered me. It stuck out of the piece in such a blended way, it fit perfectly. *oxymoron I know*

The wailing moment also didn't bother me. I actually thought that was a good move on Williams part. RotS was the fourth Williams score I bought but the first one I REALLY listened to (the first three were the harry potter films that I just bought because it was Harry Potter although I did enjoy them) anywho, there was one point when I was starting to appreciate music when that piece nearly moved me to tears in the film because of the emotion in conveyed in Padme and Anakin.

I really don't know where Williams got it wrong, if I'm listening to a certain piece I could probably tell you but nothing is popping out at me.

Losing E.T.

Just read Neil's post. I have to fully 100% disagree with you. I thought they went brilliantly with the films!!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

The pop version of Can You Read My Mind and that The Morning After song.

I also just don't like Cinderella Liberty. I've tried, but I just can't get into it.

I don't think Williams had anything to do with The Morning After (even though it won the oscar as I recall). It was written by the same duo who wrote We May Never Fall In Love Again from Towering Inferno.

Edit: Sorry, I see this has already been mentioned.

[Lurker 5]

I find "DotF" to be much more epic and in line with the battles going on in ROTS. It's no wonder it's tracked into ROTS (and even Lucas said in 1999 that Williams had written the music for the third film).

"BotH", on the other hand, seems to be smaller scaled compared with the epic "DotF". With control of the galaxy on the line, the epic sound is needed.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

I dunno,Battle of the Heroes sounds pretty epic to me.

[John Crichton 4]

I agree about both DotF being more epic and BotH being more personal. Which is why they're both perfect the way they are. The only mistake made is that, due I'm sure to the usual editing process, they got blended between the two RotS duels when it should have been just BotH for Anakin/Obi-Wan (the personal fight) and just DotF for the Sidious/Yoda fight (control of the galaxy).

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I find "DotF" to be much more epic and in line with the battles going on in ROTS. It's no wonder it's tracked into ROTS (and even Lucas said in 1999 that Williams had written the music for the third film).

"BotH", on the other hand, seems to be smaller scaled compared with the epic "DotF". With control of the galaxy on the line, the epic sound is needed.

Oooh, good point, that makes sense. Maybe that way I'd like "BotH" better. But probably not.

Ray Barnsbury - who thinks Williams didn't exactly get it right with that piece

[JWfangirl1992 18]

Now that I think about it, DotF is a lot more dynamic than BotH. However, nothing in Duel of the Fates (IMO) can top the repitition of notes at the end of the piece where Anakin is jumping over Obi-Wan's head. Pure breath holding brilliance.

[Dole 17]

I kind of find "Jim's New Life" somwhat annoying in the film, although I love it on the CD. It just seems a little too much for a scene where Christian Bale is running around a prison camp with shoes and such. Then again, I'm not a great fan of the film Empire of the Sun so maybe I'm biased.

[A24 4,345]

I kind of find "Jim's New Life" somwhat annoying in the film, although I love it on the CD. It just seems a little too much for a scene where Christian Bale is running around a prison camp with shoes and such. Then again, I'm not a great fan of the film Empire of the Sun so maybe I'm biased.

One of the film's highlights! Read the title and then watch the scene again. It's not about running around with shoes. If you don't understand this, then Potter is all you deserve.

Alex

[Datameister 2,044]

What, because it isn't a generic, orchestral cue? "Diagon Alley" should have provided a much needed break from the continually splendorous music.

Nope, that's not it. It's possible to write a source cue in such a way that it would be something you'd want to stop and listen to, if you were the one inside the movie rather than the characters. This is one source cue that would make me walk away faster. I agree that it would have been a nice break from the somewhat monotonous (though enjoyable) orchestral shimmering...but for me, that would have been its only strong point.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

That Diagon Alley/Great Hall bit is one of the best unreleased parts of the score, up there with Ollivander's. The jiggish source-type music is nice too, though. Especially the extended concert treatment, with its wonderful celebratory final minute.

Ray Barnsbury

[indy4 155]

The electric guitar fits right in, the wailing woman only enhances the scene, and Spielberg told Williams to do techno for A.I.

[Datameister 2,044]

That Diagon Alley/Great Hall bit is one of the best unreleased parts of the score, up there with Ollivander's.

Agreed on the first, not so much on the second. While I like the Ollivander's cue well enough, it's definitely not my favorite unreleased SS cue. The Forbidden Forest music is great.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

^ You're talking about the pop version, right?

I actually think its a decent song.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

The Forbidden Forest music is great.

Yes, the unicorn/Voldemort/centaur music is yet another shameful exclusion from the album.

Ray Barnsbury

[Salacius 7]

Hmm,

Didn't vote. I think the scores to War of the Worlds and Munich were the things that annoy me the most from the music he has done so far.

The things on the poll are OK. Just glitches.

[Datameister 2,044]

Yes, the unicorn/Voldemort/centaur music is yet another shameful exclusion from the album.

Definitely. I really like the less action-oriented stuff in the low strings that comes before this, too. It all should have been included. I wish CoS were a good enough score for me to justify buying the OST, so I could at least have a clean re-recording of part of that cue. Meh, oh well. I'll settle for my current, relatively clean DVD rip.

[Dole 17]

I kind of find "Jim's New Life" somwhat annoying in the film, although I love it on the CD. It just seems a little too much for a scene where Christian Bale is running around a prison camp with shoes and such. Then again, I'm not a great fan of the film Empire of the Sun so maybe I'm biased.

One of the film's highlights! Read the title and then watch the scene again. It's not about running around with shoes. If you don't understand this, then Potter is all you deserve.

Alex

Yeah I understand the scene isn't about running around with shoes. Just didn't want to miss a chance to trivialize what I think is an overly-pretentious film. Still, I stick to my opinion that even though the music to Empire of the Sun is among Williams' best, I think it's a little too much and in your face (or I guess your ears) for the film at times (but then again, so is the direction).

[skyy38 21]

[Goldsmithfan 6]

I don't mind the electric guitar in AOTC either - the track it's in is so distinctive anyway that it seems a natural part of it.

I concur!

- sentimental tripe. As are the words to the Flying theme in Superman. But we can probably blame someone else... (Bricusse?)

I'm glad I'm not the only one...

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Anyways ,the other example that pops to mind is the interrupted kiss of Anakin and Padme in AotC whre the love theme just stops

I actually am quite fond of that little moment. Its cute! Haha. I like how it sounds as if the orchestra just lifts off the music, regardless whether it was written that way or just mixed later.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I think it's one of they few moments where Attack of the Clones shows some... style. I'm not saying it's appropiate style, but at least it isn't flat, unimaginative and obvious.

[Datameister 2,044]

I actually am quite fond of that little moment. Its cute! Haha. I like how it sounds as if the orchestra just lifts off the music, regardless whether it was written that way or just mixed later.

I like it, too. The first time I heard it after listening to the soundtrack, I did a double take and I was quite skeptical. But it quickly grew on me. I'm almost positive that it was actually written and recorded that way, not simply faded out. Listen closely...it doesn't sound like an edit to me.

[John Crichton 4]

Oh, it's definately as it was written, not an edit. That cue actually rips fairly clean off the DVD. I like it too, and it's really not that different than the same moment in Empire when Han and Leia kiss and the love theme statement suddenly stops as they're interrupted.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nah, it feels different. It feels natural in TESB and forced in AOTC, like it was done mainly to get a laugh.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

The techno in A.I (moon rising)

The electric guitar in AOTC

Wailing woman in ROTS

Lapti nek

The Disco version of CE3K

Other

These are all my favorite songs.

[Ollie 1,059]

I think the guitar was out of place for AOTC.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The techno in A.I (moon rising)

The electric guitar in AOTC

Wailing woman in ROTS

Lapti nek

The Disco version of CE3K

Other

These are all my favorite songs.

Songs?

Oh no!

[Ollie 1,059]

[Hitch 57]

Are we still talking about John Towner Williams here? The man-who-can-do-no-wrong, etc etc etc, blah, blah, blah.

[Trent B 337]

The techno in A.I (moon rising)

The electric guitar in AOTC

Wailing woman in ROTS

Lapti nek

The Disco version of CE3K

Other

These are all my favorite songs.

Songs?

Oh no!

I'll double that

They're called CUES! You should know that by now hornist...geez.

BTW my vote went to the guitar in AOTC. Never cared for it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or tracks

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Or pieces.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Humor.

It is a difficult concept.

Also...

We've been over this!