Indiana Jones Temple of Doom end credits

[Johnnyecks 33]

Hey all,

For years I have wanted a sfx free version of the entire finale of TOD, when the Concorde version came out I was overjoyed when I saw that on the "More Music From" cd, there was the track "Return To Village / Raiders March". I thought for sure this is what I was finally getting after so many years. Well, as we all know, this is not the case.

Now being on a mac I thought I could easily edit that track with the "End Credits" track from the Concorde TOD cd. It turns out that I cannot find the exact marker to combine the two tracks.

Is there anyone who knows where in "End Credits" I would attach to the end of "Return To..." to make one long seamless edit for the end credits as heard in film?

I looked around and saw the fan-made edit thread from some time ago, but I couldn't find an answer to this question.

OR... if anyone has actually done so and could send me info on how to obtain... that would be fantastic.

Thanks,

Johnny

[Datameister 2,044]

There's about 11 seconds missing, unfortunately. It's possible to rip these cleanly from the DVD, but the sound quality is quite terrible. Those 11 seconds should be overlaid onto the very end of "Return to the Village/Raiders March." After the 11 seconds, you can fade into 0:32 in "End Credits", which is where the real credits music starts.

It's possible to get that edit quite smooth, but the change in sound quality will be very noticeable, unfortunately.

[Henry B 50]

There's about 11 seconds missing, unfortunately. It's possible to rip these cleanly from the DVD, but the sound quality is quite terrible. Those 11 seconds should be overlaid onto the very end of "Return to the Village/Raiders March." After the 11 seconds, you can fade into 0:32 in "End Credits", which is where the real credits music starts.

It's possible to get that edit quite smooth, but the change in sound quality will be very noticeable, unfortunately.

I wouldn't say the sound quality is terrible. I did a pretty smooth edit of it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Somewhere in my top 50 unreleased tracks is "Return to the Village/End Credits". Why we got that retarded presentation in the IJ set, I don't know. Even considering the old End Credits track on the expanded TOD (which should have been replaced), they could have fit the entire film version of the finale and end credits on disc 5.

[Datameister 2,044]

I wouldn't say the sound quality is terrible. I did a pretty smooth edit of it.

Considering what we have to work with, I'm very satisfied with my edit, but I still hate the way the rear channels sound on the TOD DVD. The front channels aren't bad at all, but they have some minor cheering SFX in that part, and when I made my edit, I decided I wanted that passage clean more than I wanted it in reasonable sound quality. If I ever redo my edit, I might change my mind. It sounds very...muffled, and sorta saxophonelike in weird way.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The music in the film's audio mix is kinda poor.

[Datameister 2,044]

It's the worst I've heard in a motion picture DVD, as far as I can remember.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Yeah, it's not great, but it's decent enough. I'm happy with my edit.

Well, I would be happier if the album had been put together competently in the first place and all tracks were recorded at the right speed. But that aside...

Been a while since I've listened too the score, actually. I think I'll do that now!

[Johnnyecks 33]

Thanks for the advice and info. I actually just created my own edit, taking the concorde 4th cd edit and trimming the sfx track down to where the concorde track ends. I just simply combined the two, and to me it sounds pretty seamless. Yes, there is a difference in the audio quality, but for my own listening... it's not bad. I'm just happy I can finally hear that transition without children laughing, and an elephant splashing water. If anyone is interested in hearing my edit let me know, I'll set it up so you can get it.

[fommes 153]

I've edited it using a few seconds from a rerecording from one of the Filmharmonic albums, it works practically seamlessly, and there's no drop in sound quality.

[King Mark 3,631]

I used the Philarmonics tracks too...after a few listens you can't notice those 11 seconds are a different recording .I don't edit it with Return to the Village so End Credits is a separate track but at least all the music is there

[Jay 37,368]

http://www.indianajonesmusic.com

[King Mark 3,631]

Reproducing the film edit of segueing Return to the Village into End Credits is not the most complete score presentation possible. Williams composed an ending to Return to the Village and now I'm more in favor of preserving it even if it doesn't match the "beloved memory" of the film edit. So by seguing it your "discarting" some notes

[Datameister 2,044]

I'm not sure what you mean, KM...the film edit is the way the score was originally intended to be presented. The segue doesn't discard any notes - it just overlays the last two beats of one cue with the first two beats of the next, exactly as they were written to be overlaid. (The score literally says OVERAY in that measure.) It's the album that edits the material in a different, incorrect sort of way.

[Andy 4,138]

This is one case where it begs to be overlayed. The flow of Return to the Village into the End Credits is so jaunty and bouncy... the stuff air conducting was made for.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Like wharehouse-raiders march.

They were meant to be mixxed in.

[Datameister 2,044]

Exactly. Or the transition into the Raiders March at the end of TLC...or even at the end of KOTCS.

[Joe Brausam 214]

I don't know. The ending to "Return to the Village" has some charm to it. Regardless of the fact that it's meant to be combined with the end credits I find it more enjoyable separated. It feels much more conclusive to me, when separated.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I don't know. The ending to "Return to the Village" has some charm to it. Regardless of the fact that it's meant to be combined with the end credits I find it more enjoyable separated. It feels much more conclusive to me, when separated.

yeah its conclusive in disc 4. and fits nicely since its the last track.

Now if that disc had the end credits sepparated after that track, IMHO it would sound akward.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's weird because I like the presentation of the warehouse and end credit tracks on the older ROTLA CD as opposed to the newer edit (which was apparently how it was meant to function in the film, but is not how it's used). In the case of TOD's finale, however, I'd like the film edit.

[Datameister 2,044]

I think ROTLA does a particularly nice job of making both cues function extremely well separate OR together. With TOD, they don't sound terrible apart, but it sounds pretty obvious to me that they're supposed to be together. (Not that I'm complaining about having them separate...as I've said before, I'd rather have every cue of every score presented separately, allowing me to edit them together if I want.)

[Joe Brausam 214]

The key modulation going into the end credits for TOD is perhaps the most blatant I've ever heard, worse even than the one at the end of ROTS!

[Datameister 2,044]

Oh, I kinda like it. It's weird, certainly, but it doesn't sound bad to me, whereas the one going into the end credits of ROTS very literally made me cringe in my seat the first time I saw it. It was just begging to resolve up to a G major chord, and when that expectation was defied, I died a little inside. I have NO idea what Williams was thinking when he wrote it that way.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't know much about G major chord, but the segue into the end credits of ROTS is quite atrocious.

[Datameister 2,044]

It's atrocious because nearly any Western ear, whether musically educated or not, is going to be expecting - nay, needing - a G major chord there. Well, okay, there are a few other options that could have worked, too, but not the one Williams used.

[Henry B 50]

The key modulation going into the end credits for TOD is perhaps the most blatant I've ever heard, worse even than the one at the end of ROTS!

I love how blatant it is. The use of an abrupt modulation, usually ascending, to heighten drama or "fun" is a tried and true device in tonal music. But with the RotS end credits there's no modulation. It simply cadences in a different key with no warning. It has a sort of cerebral humor about it... more appropriate conceptually for the concert hall than for an adventure film. Williams forgets his audience.

[Joe Brausam 214]

I probably chose my words a bit wrongly - when I say worse I meant that to me it's even more blatant than what happens in ROTS. I too enjoy the TOD one, it's a pretty cool shift.

[Mark_73 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYxht3yzEyw

[King Mark 3,631]

No,you didn't put the "A theme" interpolation with Short Round's Theme .That's available in full quality from the DVD

[Datameister 2,044]

Yes, and there's material that shouldn't be there, too. After those bouncy final chords, it's supposed to segue right into the music heard at the beginning of the credits in the film. The trombone ostinato with the sustained string chord isn't part of that cue - it was just edited into the beginning of the "End Credits" track on the Concord album. Again - the cue as written starts with the big statement of the A theme from the start of the credits. The film transition is exactly the way it was supposed to be heard. So that edit on YouTube inserts music that was never supposed to be heard right there. (And a good thing, too...the LAST thing that finale needs is more Raiders March. Love the theme, but...enough's enough!)

By the way, I apologize for my posts above that indicated there were 11 seconds missing. It's actually 26 seconds, as Jason says on indianajonesmusic.com. My edit includes all of that, but I'd forgotten that the second half of it is also from the DVD, because at that point, my edit switches to the front channels, which sound nearly as good as the OST.

Also, my primary reason for not using the Silva recording for those 11 seconds is that I'm never going to buy anything recorded by the Prague Philharmonic ever again. Easily the worst orchestra I've ever heard on a "real" CD. No offense to its players, but I cannot fathom how they get away with packaging and selling such atrocious performances (by professional standards, at least).

[Jay 37,368]

You shouldn't use just the front channels for the second half; You can use the full mix of all the channels together (or the stereo mix if the DVD has one, can't remember right now) because the sound effects and crowd noise have silenced by then

[Datameister 2,044]

Nah, at least on the region 1 DVD, I was still hearing some minor SFX for those first 11 seconds. You can still see the crowd onscreen, and there are still some minor noises in the front channels. These were quiet, but I could still hear them on my nice headphones. As I said, though, I probably would do it with the front channels anyway if I were to redo it.

[Jay 37,368]

I know there are noises in the FIRST 11 seconds, its after that that it's clean... once the film fades out and the credits start rolling

[Datameister 2,044]

Oh, yeah, that part's totally clean. That's what I meant - after those 11 seconds, my edit segues to the front channels, and the change in sound quality made me forget that the unreleased portion actually continues past that point. I was originally thinking I'd edited back into the OST at that point.

[Jay 37,368]

Right and my point was that you shouldn't segue to the FRONT channels at that point, you should switch to a mix of ALL the channels.

[Datameister 2,044]

Oh, I see. Well, I might have done that - I can't really remember. But I probably just switched all the way to the front channels because they sound great and the rear channels sound terrible on that particular DVD. As I recall, the sound quality just got worse when I mixed in the rear channels with the front channels. In any case, I'm very happy with the sound quality of that second half in my current edit...quite close to the OST sound quality.

[King Mark 3,631]

Also, my primary reason for not using the Silva recording for those 11 seconds is that I'm never going to buy anything recorded by the Prague Philharmonic ever again. Easily the worst orchestra I've ever heard on a "real" CD. No offense to its players, but I cannot fathom how they get away with packaging and selling such atrocious performances (by professional standards, at least).

no not the Prague,the Philharmonics recording...it's almost identical to the original

Seriously I can't tell anymore in my edit that it's from a different source .I think some people can tell there's a tiny pitch difference but I can't. At any rate it sounds way better than using 11 seconds of rear channel rip and switching to all channels suddenly.

[Datameister 2,044]

It's one of their better recordings, and the original doesn't sound very good anyway, so they kinda meet each other halfway. But there's no way I'm EVER buying that album...most of it sounds predictably horrible in the samples.

[King Mark 3,631]

are we talking about the same thing??

the End Credits were recorded by the Silva Prague orchestra...but there's another recording by some other orchestra on a "Philarmonics 2 film music " c.d.(not sure what city it is)

[GoodMusician 56]

its possible to replicate it using material released original recordings and about 5 seconds of dvd rip. I recently did a complete edit of TOD and I did it and you can't tell the transitions at all.

[Datameister 2,044]

Oh, maybe we're talking about different recordings, KM.

[Mark_73 0]

How about that one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jq_t0B2xsU

The author claims that this is original and no fake.

But between 3:22 and 3:47 it sounds really ugly to me.

What do you think?

[Datameister 2,044]

Yup, utter bull. It's an edit, and not a particularly good one.

[fommes 153]

Oh, maybe we're talking about different recordings, KM.

Yes, we referred to the recording on Filmharmonic II, a compilation album recorded by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. It's not on their website anymore, but this is:

http://www.rpo.co.uk/cd_release.php?rid=39

[Jay 37,368]

Right, it was the RPO performance that I included in the editing packages. No one used any of that horrible Prague stuff that I'm aware of

[russds 8]

I think that youtube clip is a pretty good stitch of all the music out there. I always hated how I could never get that cool A Theme mixed with short rounds theme. Anyone remember the old standup video game TOD? I remember this was the only other place (way back then) that you could here that cool mix of Theme A with short rounds theme, other than cassette taping it from the end credits at the theater. I remember thinking, how did they get it on that video game, but i can't get it on tape!!

[igger6 894]

Just caught the last 45 minutes of Temple of Doom on Pluto TV last night (possibly the best way to watch it!) and encountered the film version of the finale for the first time since the much earlier days of my JWFandom. At first I was put off by the different tempo and iffy sound quality, but now that I’ve looked into it a bit, I’m fascinated by the two different entrances of Short Round’s theme. So did Williams decide later (after the Prague recording) that juxtaposing the A theme with Short Round was too much and revise the arrangement? When, say, the City Lights Symphony Orchestra recorded it, the change was already made. But then when did the change happen?

 

For my part, I like the Prague recording. The opening tempo matches the film, which is unlike any version of Raiders I’ve ever heard, and the slower take on Willie’s theme is refreshing, too. It leans into the gap between that gorgeous melody and the character’s flimsiness, or maybe heightens the perfection of the film’s realization of a tintype damsel-in-distress as seen through the eyes of an eight-year-old pulp reader. 

[Brando 1,864]

1 hour ago, igger6 said:

At first I was put off by the different tempo and iffy sound quality

Of the film?

[Bellosh 3,419]

this has to be the current holy grail of 'end credits' from JW.  at least for me.

 

can't wait until it's officially released

[Brando 1,864]

Other than ROTJ's End Credit intro, I can't think of any other end credit intro we're missing.